Am I sexist ?

[pdoel]

And I apologize for heping get this off topic.

The topic is whether or not feeling sympathy for someone who died because you heard it was a woman is sexist. The topic is not about what makes up a definition, or how sentences should be formed.

Michel, I think you are an incredible guy. Always the voice of reason. Always the fair moderator. You always bring a smile to my face, when I read your posts.

I do not find your response to this situation sexist at all. Many times, we think we would react differently under different circumstances, but that's not always the case. You never really know until that situation arises. And many times, there are different factors which can also ilicit a reaction.

 

[Aqualung]

Michel, I think you are an incredible guy. Always the voice of reason. Always the fair moderator. You always bring a smile to my face, when I read your posts.

Oh, that's just an urban legend.

 

[Buttercup]

Am I being sexist, by being more emotional because two police women have been shot recently ?
Had they been men, of course it would have affected me. Being women though, it has had a much greater effect.

I certainly don't want Michel thinking I view his post as discriminatory....I stated that I didn't in an earlier post but want to reiterate the point.

He asked the question, "Am I being sexist?" and basically answered the question himself.

Do I think he is wrong to feel this way? No

But, he asked the question: Is it sexist to feel this way?

Pure and simple I would have to say, Yes. BUT! No offense is taken by his statement either.

Although for grins I would like him to answer my question......Would he have posted the story if the woman were 60?

 

[jeffrey]

And I apologize for heping get this off topic.

The topic is whether or not feeling sympathy for someone who died because you heard it was a woman is sexist. The topic is not about what makes up a definition, or how sentences should be formed.

Michel, I think you are an incredible guy. Always the voice of reason. Always the fair moderator. You always bring a smile to my face, when I read your posts.

I do not find your response to this situation sexist at all. Many times, we think we would react differently under different circumstances, but that's not always the case. You never really know until that situation arises. And many times, there are different factors which can also ilicit a reaction.

I totally agree with you. Michel is an incredible person. To raise someone above levels is not sexist, racist, or bigoted. I t's when you lower someone below standards is when you are guilty of that.

 

[jeffrey]

Um . . . .


You just contradicted yourself. I think if this were a pointed debate, you would have just lost.

When it comes to definitions, there are certain rules. For instance, you cannot use the word you are defining in the definition itself. In your example, you could not use two "pretty much unrelated, different points" within the same definition. That's a contradiction, not a definition.

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to pdoel again.

 

[michel]

Yes, you are.

Say why, as you see it; no holds barred.

 

[ChrisP]

Yes I think you are, but for the same reason all men are sexist.

Males natural instinct is to protect. Women's... well I'm not so sure probably to nurture but that's a little... narrow.

So yes you are, but it's your instinct.

 

[michel]

I certainly don't want Michel thinking I view his post as discriminatory....I stated that I didn't in an earlier post but want to reiterate the point.

He asked the question, "Am I being sexist?" and basically answered the question himself.

Do I think he is wrong to feel this way? No

But, he asked the question: Is it sexist to feel this way?

Pure and simple I would have to say, Yes. BUT! No offense is taken by his statement either.

Although for grins I would like him to answer my question......Would he have posted the story if the woman were 60?

In all honesty, yes; although I must admit that it would have been less dramatic, because this (and the other policewoman) were young, with all of their lives ahead. An older policewoman (or man) dying in the line of duty wouldn't have been so emotive (maybe that even sounds wrong). In truth, I think I would feel nearly as bad had it been a young father.

I guess I see it from the point of view that these were/could have been mothers and because of their ages their children would have been terribly young and would have been deprived of their mothers.

I somehow feel that the loss of a mother is far greater than that of a father.

maybe this is all very unmanly emotion, but that's the way I see it. maybe, in a funny way, that does make me sexist (but against we men!:biglaugh: )

 

[jeffrey]

.


I somehow feel that the loss of a mother is far greater than that of a father.

Maybe that's why deer hunters hunt bucks, not doe? (except, of course, without a special licence.)

 

[Fluffy]

In modern society, discrimination, prejudice and irrational fear has recieved a very bad reputation. However, in my humble opinion, this reputation is wholly undeserved.

I have known people who are visibly uncomfortable and feel very threatened when in the prescence of black people. They do not know why they feel this way but despite numerous attempts, cannot change this feeling. They know rationally, that there is nothing wrong with black people and that the problem lies in their mind.

I have also known people who quite enjoy going around and beating the crap out of black people.

Both of these groups of people are prejudiced, in my mind, but whilst the latter is quite happily swimming in their immorality, who would say that the first group are doing anything immoral? It is not the prejudice that is wrong, it is the individual's response to their prejudice and how they then choose to deal with it that differentiates the good from the bad.

Being a sexist should not be something that it inherently wrong. It is something that arguably the majority of people cannot help. The moral judgement should be based on their rational response to this, not the emotional make up of a condition they cannot understand, justify nor want.

 

[Pussyfoot Mouse]

I'm sure if the cops had been men, and they had done a little piece about the families they had left behind, and you saw the guy had some children, you'd have been just as sad as were over these women.

I agree. I believe we tend to feel even more so for a victim with a family, especially young families.

 

[Aqualung]

Say why, as you see it; no holds barred.

Uhhhhh, that's what this entire thread was about. :slap:

that does make me sexist

Oh, look. You answered your own question.

 

[Buttercup]

I think sexism in the personal realm is quite a bit more acceptable than it is in the workplace. I mean, who can fault anyone for feeling compassion for another human being even if the bias is gender based? Doesn't bother me at all that men tend to feel the need to protect women and children, I find it oddly comforting. But it is technically sexist. And it was fun to debate it!

It's illegal in the workplace though. Not to feel compassion toward women of course but to deny the same rights to women. My husband and I are fervent college basketball fans and have season tickets for our local university men's home games. One thing I find hard to believe is that the school can get away with paying the men's basketball coach TONS more money than the women's basketball coach. What about equal pay? Why should two coaches working for a state university get paid differently? No one has ever answered that question satisfactorily for me. Anyone out there know?

My husband is an air traffic controller and works for the government. If they paid the women at his facility less than him, the tower roof would explode....they couldn't get away with it. How come the university can?

 

[michel]

Uhhhhh, that's what this entire thread was about. :slap:

Oh, look. You answered your own question.

With tongue in cheek.......hence the smilie. I had explained the fact that if one parent had to die, it would be 'less bad' (can't very well say better) if the father died.....it is only on that tenet that I based the whole business of feeling worse because these two incidents involved women. So, really, as I see it, whilst you can claim that I am sexist, I see myself as being 'role-ish' -and that is not down to stereotyping, but down to sheer biology.

Thank you all, you have helped me answer my own question.

 

[jeffrey]

With tongue in cheek.......hence the smilie. I had explained the fact that if one parent had to die, it would be 'less bad' (can't very well say better) if the father died.....it is only on that tenet that I based the whole business of feeling worse because these two incidents involved women. So, really, as I see it, whilst you can claim that I am sexist, I see myself as being 'role-ish' -and that is not down to stereotyping, but down to sheer biology.

Thank you all, you have helped me answer my own question.

Once again, you show why you are one of the most respected members of this forum. You have more class then I.....(In my best southern accent) But being a trucker, I ain't supposed to have no class!

 

[kreeden]

I had explained the fact that if one parent had to die, it would be 'less bad' (can't very well say better) if the father died.....

Ok Michel , I have to call you on that one . I didn't see where you explained your view , and perhaps if I did I wouldn't be asking this now , but how so ? I know several broken families , some because of death and some for other reasons . Some have a father , some a mother . And it is my experience that the gander of the parent plays a much smaller role then the love and careing of said parent . I even know a couple of families where the mother has ran off because she felt that she couldn't handle the children { special needs children } . In those cases , if the father had died it would have left the children with no one .

 

[michel]

Ok Michel , I have to call you on that one . I didn't see where you explained your view , and perhaps if I did I wouldn't be asking this now , but how so ? I know several broken families , some because of death and some for other reasons . Some have a father , some a mother . And it is my experience that the gander of the parent plays a much smaller role then the love and careing of said parent . I even know a couple of families where the mother has ran off because she felt that she couldn't handle the children { special needs children } . In those cases , if the father had died it would have left the children with no one .

Well, obviously, I was talking as in "If one parent of a two parent family" had to die, it would be less traumatic for the children if it was the father who died. Especially if we are talking about very young children (as these would have to be, because the two women involved were young themselves).

When our first son was born, my wife went through bad post natal depression, and I was virtually the only parent for him for about a year. I am sure poor Andy missed out as a result of that (in fact my wife often remembers the period with guilt, which is hard for me to cope with - kind of double whammy - because a) I feel I could have done so much better b) I don't want my wife to feel guilty about something she couldn't help).

I was also thinking that the few very early years are the time when the bulk of our character is formed; kids need mothers more than fathers (as far as I am concerned) - especially if they are girls. This is all so subjective though, and I guess my own views are based on my own interpretation of my own upbringing.

 

[kreeden]

Well , I do agree that there is a very important bond between mother and child Michel , which of course is the strongest in the early years . And in that regard I agree with you . But life is a broader experience and many things come into play , some beyond anyone's control .

Your wife should not feel guilty for being ill . That is on of those things that lay beyond our control . Would be feel guilty if she had been , say , hit by a drunk driver and had been in the hospital for that year ?

Above I used excamples of mother's who couldn't handle being a mother , for whatever reason . I did so purely as an excample and without judgement as I have no idea what they were dealing with on a personal level . But I do think that for the children , it was a good thing that the fathers were able to step in and do what they could , on their own . Much as in your case . I am sure that you did as much as you could , and your wife did as well as she could . No one can do more .

 

[pdoel]

Males natural instinct is to protect. Women's... well I'm not so sure probably to nurture but that's a little... narrow.

I'm wondering if part of a woman's natural instinct to nurture, would also be protection. In my exerpience, when it comes to the work place, women are more sexist than men. I've known women who can be handed project after project after project. The first time someone else gets a project, all you hear for weeks is how it's because she's a woman.

Also, in the work place, I have seen more backstabbing from women, than anyone else. And it's not women backstabbing men. It's women backstabbing other women. I've even heard women discuss how much they hate working with other women. It can get nasty.

I've also seen more public women/women fights than I've EVER seen male/male fights.

I wonder if it's much like it is with dogs who want to protect their terrority. Women get VERY nasty when another woman enters their domain. Much more so than men.