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Featured Am I more kind than God?

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by PopeADope, Sep 26, 2017.

?
  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    63.6%
  2. No

    4 vote(s)
    36.4%
  1. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    I find this leper patient's affliction and countenance to be heartbreaking...if I could give my life today in exchange for his healing , I would do it... I don't want to live and Ive always wanted to die for a noble cause.

    It just dawned on me it's Interesting that I would give my life to help this poor soul (and I know I'm serious)and God doesn't have to lift a finger, spend a penny, or burn a calorie to bring him healing, and God refuses...

    That's really low God! I know you're reading this
     
    #1 PopeADope, Sep 26, 2017
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  2. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    @Deeje, you often talk about beauty in creation proves we have a wonderful God....what about the ugliness in our world or the man in the OP?...what about people born deformed...just an accident God could easily fix... God doesn't have to work up a sweat to heal them...also God watches his children get raped every day and could help them , but he just watches, maybe weeps, but doesn't lift a finger to help...sound like a trustworthy father to you?
     
    #2 PopeADope, Sep 26, 2017
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  3. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    What about homosexuals...the Bible speaks very negative and condemning about them...it isn't their fault...they don't choose to be gay. Some pray for a healthy sexuality...i would lay down my life for them to have a healthy sexuality.

    God doesn't have to put any effort into it and he refuses to heal them... obviously he wants them to be homosexual, so Christians need to cease with judging and despising homosexuals!

    But once again, I'm kinder than God... could I give all people that ask for it a healthy sexuality, I would.

    I'm not gay, but I have some very dark depraved sexual fantasies I hope I never act out on....I pray persistently for a healthy sexuality... God could easily grant it but refuses...my only conclusion is that I'd do a better job than God if I had his power.
     
    #3 PopeADope, Sep 26, 2017
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  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    If you understand what this life is meant to accomplish, then you would know.

    Take yourself back to the garden of Eden and ask....."what life did God offer to the first humans and how did they lose that life?"

    When God expelled them from the garden, he took away access to the one thing that would have kept them alive forever. (the tree of life) Man was not created to die or to get sick or to even be born deformed. When humans separated themselves from God he separated himself from them....but not completely. Since sinful beings cannot exist in God's presence, he appointed a Mediator (Jesus) so that humans could still have access to God and benefit from his wisdom. Unfortunately not all humans want to live according to God's wisdom and because they have free will, he will not force them. So this life is a test to see how many will use their free will to appreciate what he has given us and how we can attain the life that our father Adam lost for us. Everlasting life in perfect health and happiness is the life we have programmed into our hearts, but rebellion took it away and sin produces all the woes we suffer. Only with sin removed can mankind go back to the perfection that Adam and his wife once enjoyed. Jesus sacrifice makes that possible because he paid for what Adam did to us.
     
    #4 Deeje, Sep 26, 2017
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  5. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Man was created to die and get sick because God gave them a tree he already knew they would eat from...God knew they would eat from the tree, so why set them up for failure by putting it there in the first place?

    Why punish us for a crime we never committed?
     
  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I see from your posts that you have a good heart and that you are kind and empathetic towards those who suffer....you too have suffered much it seems. But sin is in evidence even in homosexuality. It is true that this is a genetic pre-disposition that these ones cannot help. God does not condemn them for it even as he does not condemn the man with the deformity. He teaches us to live happily in spite of these impairments.

    Homosexuality has been around as long as sin has existed, but it doesn't excuse individuals from engaging in conduct that to God is 'unnatural'. Sex is for procreation....we see this in just about all species of living things on this planet.....it is designed to produce offspring.

    God only authorizes sex between a man and a woman in scriptural marriage. He is not one bit interested in how a person justifies sin, where the use of one's reproductive parts are concerned. The act of copulation is a sacred one, only to be sanctioned within the bonds of marriage, which was intended to be the basis for a new family. Homosexual couples cannot reproduce without the aid of a third party, which is technically adultery if the egg or the sperm come from someone other than one's marriage mate. Since scriptural marriage can never be applied to homosexuals, then their union will never be legitimate in God's eyes, regardless of what man's laws dictate. Christians cannot be practicing homosexual acts if they desire God's blessing. No Christian can be immoral in their conduct, regardless of gender.

    God will put in every effort if he sees genuine love in the heart of a person who wants to put God's rules before selfish desire. He is ready and willing to help anyone to live a good Christian life free from deliberate sin. Many heterosexuals never find a marriage mate, and learn to live celibate lives. Any sexual activity outside of marriage is "fornication" and this carries the death penalty in the Bible.....its that serious. Homosexuals are not exempt. Sin is only part of this life....a brief encounter when you compare it to the eternity of peace and happiness that is promised to the loyal ones who keep God's commands even when that is difficult.

    You only see yourself as kinder if you don't understand the reasons for the present situation...and who is really to blame for them. We cannot blame God when it is the devil who is responsible for all our woes.

    This life is a demonstration of what happens when humans want to do things their way.....nothing good comes of it and the result fights with the life we want to live. We know we are designed to live a very different life....one that God will give us in the new world to come. (2 Peter 3:13)

    God wants to grant all people the desires of their heart....but only when such desires conform to his righteous standards.
    He doesn't want humans to take things for themselves without his permission, but to wait patiently until he has concluded his test period and then see the results of his blessings, which will be beyond our wildest imaginings. :)
     
  7. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    You said God isn't to blame, the devil is.

    God is to blame for all of the devil's actions because God has to give the devil permission to do those things.

    Also God created the devil knowing what the devil would do. He could have just not created the devil in the first place. God could protect us from the devil and he refuses to.

    God wants there to be much evil in the world!
     
  8. Hammerheart

    Hammerheart Well-Known Member

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    How many people have you smitten in the past 2000+ years?
     
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  9. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There is a much bigger picture here P.A.D. It doesn't just involve humans but more importantly the whole of God's angelic family as well. The first rebel was not human. He hijacked the human race in an attempt to become a god himself. We are not the whole problem really...we are the hostages. There was a ransom demanded, and God paid it with the life of his precious son. That is how much he loved us.

    The hijacker made accusations about God and about us that could only be settled by allowing the rebel to prove his claims. We are given the opportunity to prove that his claims about us are false because he said if the going got tough, we would all leave God and even curse him. (Read Job chapters 1&2)

    We are not being "punished" any more than hostages taken in a siege are punished for anything they did...they are just innocent bystanders who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    God is allowing the devil enough rope to hang himself and in the process setting precedents for all time to come. No angel or human will be able to challenge God's sovereignty ever again. Free will can then become the gift God intended for it to be and humans can get on with the life God intended for them all along. Please remember that because this primarily involves spirit beings, this has to take place in universal time, not in earth years. This is why it seems to be taking so long, but a day to God is a thousand of our earth years. (2 Peter 3:8)
     
  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    That's pretty much why I can't believe in any sort of personal deity who listens and cares and involves him/herself with out lives. There is so much misery and suffering in life, so much cruelty and malice, too many terrible fates for the good and lives of luxury and ease for the wicked, for me to think such a being could possibly exist. And if it does, I want nothing to do with it.
     
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  11. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    I stabbed a guy once but he survived...I was under the influence. He and I are friends now. I feel deeply sorry for what I've done. Ive never killed anybody.
     
  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    How does that work though? Satan hijacks us, holds us as hostage, and a ransom was demanded, but it was god who gave the terms of this ransom. It wasn't Satan demanded the death of Christ, it was something god said would happen.
    And how did god pay this with the life of his son? His son is immortal, was assured of his life after death, and compared to how barbaric, cruel, vicious, and bloodthirsty we can be, Jesus' execution is hardly of historical exception or noteworthy (and the stories of some Saints have them going through far worse, with them being nothing more than mere flesh and blood, unlike Christ). Pontius Pilate executed Christ, and he was dead within the day. Had Vlad Dracul III done it, Jesus would still have been on a wooden stake, impaled and dying, by the time he was resurrected from Crucifixion. Robert-Francois Damiens was dead within a day, but his legs were crushed, he was tortured with red-hot pincers, he was burned with hot/boiling/molten wax, sulphur, oil, and then had horses attempt to rip him apart only to fail, then be cut and hacked at the joints and then ripped apart by the horses, and some accounts say he died when his body was ripped apart, and some claim he was still alive when they threw his body on a pyre and burnt it.
     
  13. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Permission is not the same as causing it himself. To illustrate.....if you had a child with a birth defect that was causing as much suffering as the man depicted in the OP, but doctors told you that a series of very painful operations over many years would give him a normal life and wonderful prospects for the future. Would the pain of those operations cause you to say no to fixing the problem permanently altogether? Because he has given all his intelligent creatures free will, he will not force them to do anything against their will. That way he retains the ones who want him as their God and Sovereign Ruler as opposed to those who might be forced to serve him out of fear. He does not want us to fear him...he wants us to love him. He cannot force us to do that.

    God did not create the devil...he made himself into satan (resister) and a slanderer (devil) when he chose to misuse his free will.

    God never wanted there to be evil in the world. If he had wanted evil to be unleashed, he never would have placed the death penalty on eating the forbidden fruit.
     
  14. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    God knew mankind would fall, God refuses to restrain the devil, God lets the devil be God of this world, therefore God wants there to be much evil in the world.

    I want to serve God. I'm waiting for God to speak up. The Bible doesn't make sense to me and contradicts itself. I don't even know if it's the word of God. I'm waiting for God to guide me and he refuses.

    God could heal me of the defects that cause me to sin and he refuses to.

    God is responsible for the devil's actions in the same way that a father is responsible for a lion eating his child if he lets the lion in the same room with his child.
     
  15. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    God's laws existed before the creation of humans. We have no idea about how life in the heavenly realm is lived or how his laws are implemented there.....all we have are snatches and glimpses.

    God's earthly law demanded equivalency. i.e. "Life will be for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."
    So the perfect life Adam lost for his children was atoned for in the perfect life given in exchange by Jesus. The ransom was paid, paving the way for mankind to eventually inherit everlasting life on a cleansed earth as God first intended.

    Jesus was not immortal, otherwise he could not have died. Jesus is not God, he is God's son. Spirit beings in the Bible are mortal, just as human beings were created as mortal creatures.....it didn't mean that they HAD to die...only that they COULD if they disobeyed the direct commands of their God. The Bible says that the devil and all who follow him will be thrown into the great fiery lake....which Jesus said was "the second death"....eternal death...the kind of death from which no one returns.

    It wasn't the Romans who wanted Jesus dead...it was the Jews. Only when they threatened to report Pilate for sedition, did he hand Jesus over for execution, knowing that Jesus was innocent.

    Jesus suffered enormous torture before his agonizing death because, to appease the Jews, Pilate had Jesus flogged with a flagellum, which is a whip with fragments of bone embedded into many pieces of leather, designed to tear the flesh and inflict the maximum amount of pain.

    He had been kept awake all night enduring illegal interrogation and mistreatment from the Jews and then the Romans. Death on his execution stake was also agonizing. The victims lungs were compromised because the weight of the body was taken by the arms, collapsing the lungs.....the footrest was placed there so that the victim had to push up with their feet in order to breathe, prolonging the agony. When their entertainment value had run its course, they then broke the legs of the criminals so that they would not be able to refill their lungs any more, and they suffocated. Does this death sound like a picnic or something?

    Unlike Jesus, this man was guilty of trying to kill the King. It was indeed a horrible death, but not one unexpected in France at the time. The French were not noted for their kindly treatment of prisoners.

    When you read about the depths to which humans can sink in their sadistic actions towards other humans, what word comes to your mind? "INHUMAN"...do you know why? Because this kind of behavior is NOT HUMAN. It goes so far out of he bounds of normal human behavior so as to no longer be counted as such. I believe that this is from the influence of the evil one controlling the world. (1 John 5:19) It is his stamp on the ones he has been able to recruit to serve his interests and to do his bidding.

    Such inhuman conduct will never be seen again when God is the ruler of mankind. His kingdom will replace all corrupt human rulership and replace it with the peace and security that most of us long for. (Daniel 2:44)
    I have faith in this promise.
     
    #15 Deeje, Sep 26, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  16. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    No, that is not what God is doing. He has an appointed time to end all this and the devil and his hordes will be thrown into a state of complete restraint or inactivity for 1,000 years. The kingdom of God will then rule over redeemed mankind under Jesus' leadership and attain to the perfection that Adam had once enjoyed. Then the devil will be let loose one last time and test those who had not been tested before. (Revelation 20:1-3)

    Until the knowledge of evil was unleashed by disobedient humans, there was no evil in the world. God never wanted for there to be evil in the world. But as free willed beings he could not prevent access to it except by placing an enormous penalty for disobeying his direct command. Once the 'genie was out of the bottle', there was no sending it back, so God used the situation to test out all of his children, both in heaven and on earth. The reward for being obedient will be wonderful. (Revelation 21:2-4)

    If you really want to know him, he will find you, but don't expect it to be by a miracle. It will be a seed planted in your heart that will grow and cause you to become a different person. He will not make your mental illness disappear in this system of things, but will guide you to seek the proper treatment until it is time for the Kingdom to take over and heal everyone of their illnesses both physical and mental.

    Are you demanding what God is not yet ready to do? Why expect a miracle? The age of miracles is long past. They were a foregleam into what Jesus will do on a grand scale once he is ruling the world. The miracles performed in these times are fake. The holy spirit does not work at reduced power. "All" who were brought to Jesus and his apostles were 100% cured.....that is certainly not the case today. Miracles performed today are actually proof that people are not the real deal.

    Jesus warned that "...false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, the chosen ones. 23 You, then, watch out. I have told you all things beforehand." (Mark 13:22-23)

    Not so, God protects his children from the "roaring lion" that is satan the devil. (1 Peter 5:8) He cannot snatch them out of Jesus' hand.

    At John 10:27-28, Jesus said......"My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means ever be destroyed, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."

    This is a promise not even death can break.
     
    #16 Deeje, Sep 26, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  17. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Yes, God knows you said this, and surely he is sad you do not comprehend the deeper things of God.
    My uncle was a truly beautiful nice person whose wife got seriously mentally ill right after they were married. He also could not comprehend that if God existed why he would permit this to happen.

    Surely, I also am many times at a loss to explain why some things are permitted. However, just blaming God without understand, without studying the reasons for this - is not being fair to God.
    Might you agree with Paul in his statement about creation groaning?
    20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will but through him that subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now.

    The problem with the whole business is that it is complex and not just between you and God. In the last several hundred years, we have had what many may claim to be Christian nations in Europe and the New World. Have these done away with war, poverty, greed, the domination of man over his fellow man?! Not at all. In fact, some of these nations have seen church power dominate man to inflict terror and suffering on their countrymen.

    God is permitting suffering of this kind and scale to happen so that when he corrects these problems and makes a world where these things are not, that we shall remember how it was, what we suffered. For this reason, of remembering, we will not mind the limits he shall put on human activity, in gaining riches, in limiting the amount of poverty a person can fall into, and in doing away with war. Paradise promised by God is not going to be paradise for all. And, those who have suffered now will understand that certain limits must be put in place so that all have enough globally, so that resources, water, oil, minerals, will be used fairly for all.

    Peter stated one reason for suffering:

    1 Peter 4:13 . . .forasmuch as YOU are sharers in the sufferings of the Christ, that YOU may rejoice and be overjoyed also during the revelation of his glory.
    Thus when Paradise is established, while we remember our suffering, we will be overjoyed not to have to be poor, ill, suffer from war, or suffer from tyrannical governments.

    Isaiah 2:4 . . .Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.
    Revelation 21:3-4 . . .The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
    The present suffering is permitted to demonstrate to mankind, to you, to that poor person - that we need God, that we must bow our knees to God and recognize his rulership, his theocracy.







     
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  18. Nous

    Nous Well-Known Member
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    I don't get why leprosy is not understood as merely the product of a bacterial infection (like other bacterial infections), which is something that does happen and possibly has to happen on this planet that is teeming wih life forms. That is, I don't understand leprosy in humans should be thought of as like an intentional act of someone to mutilate another person. After all, the bacteria are just trying to live, just trying to pay their monthly bills.
     
  19. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    You mean that they evolved instead of being created, knowing what they would do?
     
  20. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    What if you knew that before this guy had leprosy, he actually severely disfigured a little girl in a fit of rage. Would you still do it? I imagine not.

    I think the conclusion we can draw from there is, without having G-d's knowledge, we can't judge the morality of G-d's actions.
     
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