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Am I going to hell?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Ponder the Box, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Jesus disn't ask us to believe in a system of theology. Jesus asked us to live our lives in love. If you do that, then you're following Jesus' command.

    No. I don't believe in hell. I believe everybody is brought into union with God, in the end. heaven is not a consequence of our actions. heaven is the result of God's love for us.

    Faith isn't a proof of worthiness. That goes against the grain of the gospel message. You don't perceive the Christian God to be loving, or kind, or intelligent, because you've been acquainted with too many Christians who don't live out of love, or kindness, or intelligence.

    The purpose faith serves is to help us accept God's love, and to learn to live out that love in the world and in our own lives.
     
  2. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Personally, I find the thought of a loving God that will throw people into eternal damnation for not worshipping him to not be loving, but an egomaniac un-loving God, that doesn't deserve to be worshiped. What if a "good person" was witnessed to in a negative way, such as being to they will go to hell for not believing in Christ, there charity donations and volunteering are meaningless in God's eyes, and there life-style will get them into Hell, if that person rejected Christ because of that negativity, I have my doubts a truly loving God would sentence them to Hell.

    "Assuredly I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 8:10-12)
    "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:14-15)


    "Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:36-38)

    Those verses seem to say that you will not go to Hell just because you are not a Christian.
     
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  3. ArcaÐios

    ArcaÐios New Member

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    The entire book says you'll go to Hell if you don't believe in God in one way, shape, or form, be it before the time of Jehova, Jesus, or the Spirit. There has been a little discrepancy recently, since people have been going back over the original texts and coming up with theories that there is no Biblical Hell. "Sheol," which has always been translated from Hebrew to mean "Hell," supposedly just means the earth or the ground and that, during the Rapture, everyone will come to Heaven from "Sheol;" literally, the dead will rise.

    The entire Bible's filled with contradictions and I wouldn't put much faith in it if I were you. I don't.
     
  4. lovedmb

    lovedmb Member

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    I agree, this is such a sticking point for me, and while you posted some good vs. from the Bible, to support your understanding, is part of the problem for me. That someone else can easily find something between the covers of the "good book" to contradict your point, makes the entire thing seem meaningless to me. Frubals to you.
     
  5. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Actually, "hell" never appears as an O.T. concept. Hell is a Greek, not a Hebrew concept. The Hebrew word "Sheol" is a term that means, "A place of shadows." Heaven/hell come to Christianity as a Hellenistic dualism viewpoint of the afterlife.
    The contradictions arise between discrepancies of time, place and philodophical viewpoint. However, all agree on one vital point: God loves us and searches us out.
     
  6. maya1

    maya1 New Member

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    I think it is very interesting that you have this issue, because I grew up christian and the thought of going to Hell was always a motivating factor in practicing that religion. I have sense left the faith and I'm currently on my own spiritual journey. I would always wonder why would a loving and compassionate God sentence his children to hell. I have a family and regardless of what any of my childred would do I would never sentence them to an eternity of fire. Furthermore, if the Christian God's love isn't based on any conditions why have Hell at all.
     
  7. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    You must accept Christ and do all he has asked. You might attach a label with that. I do not.

    I don't really feel like getting in a pissing contest with you, but I'm curious to know why you think you know just as much as a lifelong member. Please share.
     
  8. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    Strike three.

    I'm not sure who would teach you that or why. The third "degree" is comparable to the glory of the stars, not the earth. This earth is a fallen place, filled with sickness and death. The third "degree" will not be like that.
     
  9. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    Unless I am mistaken, lovedmd is an ex-Mormon. Now I'm not going to comment on whether she knows more about Mormonism than you do, since I have no idea how fully she understood Mormon doctrine when she left. But I'll tell you one thing -- whether it's Mormonism, Catholicism or Judaism, nobody leaves a religion without having some negative feelings about it, and inevitably these negative feelings seem to surface eventually.
     
  10. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    is that true lovedmd? are you an ex-Mormon?
     
  11. lovedmb

    lovedmb Member

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    Well then you'll have to speak to my old YW teachers and bishopbric who held the big "Airplane crash" fireside twice while I was a youth.
    Because that was what I was taught, that it would be similar to living on earth. But whatever.
    What exactly do you suppose the glory of the stars is like? What were you taught, as we know there is no "clear" doctrine, only fallible humans teaching us.
     
  12. lovedmb

    lovedmb Member

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    No denying it, I do have negative feelings about it, but not as much as you might think. I left years ago, and now I just like to debate, but for the most part there isn't much that gets me tied up in knots about it. Mainly my negative feelings come when in a debate, where I offer up documented evidence I am met with "good feelings" comments, "You should pray" "The holy ghost has abandoned you because of some sin, clearly", or the best one of course is "YOU ARE ANTI!!!" etc.
    That really gets old.
    Besides, if you are here debating *any* religion, you probably have some pretty strong feelings about religion, I can't imagine we all aren't biased.
    So I am "ex" mormon yes, but "anti"...nah. No reason to be. It serves no purpose. In fact, I used to hate those darn picketers outside general conference every year, and thought they should stop wasting their time annoying the Mormons, and I still do.
    In fact, my entire family is mormon, pioneer stock from southern Idaho. So no worries. I promise to play nice. I've been at this for several years, debating religion, and there is no reaction from LDS members that I won't be suspecting now that this "has been revealed". But it was fun to just be the newbie for awhile, without any preconcieved ideas.
    :p
     
  13. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    If the heaven/hell dichotomy is truly Helenistic, why is it that it's so peculiarly a western Christian understanding? We Orthodox do not believe in a place of reward called heaven and a place of punishment called hell and, of course, the Greeks (helenes) are Orthodox.

    The idea of a loving God who eternally tortured people was one of the big things that turned me away from Christianity. Arguing that such punishment is motivated by love is nonsensical. How can vengeance be loving? And how can eternal punishment be anything but vengeful, given that there's no chance to mend your ways?

    Thank heavens I found that there's a huge swathe of Christianity (all the east) that doesn't think like this and sees heaven and hell as our personal experience of the same inescapable love of God (No*s bumped an old thread on this recently entitled God is Hell). I could certainly never follow a God that conforms to the usual western Christian idea of Him.

    And for Dawny, the majority of Christians do not believe that all non-Christians are damned. We don't, the OOs don't, RC teaching is, like ours, that we know where salvation is (i.e. in the Church) but not where it is not - that's somwhere over 1.2 billion just there. The historical view of the Church was likewise not in accord with your idea. For instance, St. Gregory of Nyssa came perilously close to universalism in his beliefs and was not condemned for it. The view you espouse is one that, as far as I can see, is peculiar to western Christianity, particularly the Protestant churches and some on the ultra-traditionalist fringes of Roman Catholicism.

    James
     
  14. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    You're right. I should have gone a little more in-depth with that thought. Thanks for the redirect.

    Your last statement: I find that view particularly Calvinist. Calvinism is very deeply imbedded in American Protestantism. When we think of Protestantism, we usually think of Martin Luther, but Calvin's theology is much more prevalent in this country.
     
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