Am I going to hell?

[d.]

But yeah, do you know why they, whoever they are, use "Norse"? I guess it comes from Nordic?

yes, the nor (norr, nord) in norway (norge) means north.

but i personally believe it's because non-scandinavian people most often associate the vikings with norway, when actually 'viking culture' was all over scandinavia, sweden, norway, iceland. there might be another reason to which i am unaware though.

i used to be deep into asatro when i was a kid - it's a very fascinating subject. sadly much of the old customs was lost when scandinavia was christened.

i guess we're going a bit OT here...this is what wikipedia has to say :

Niflheim ("Land of Mists") is the realm of ice and cold in Norse Mythology. It is located north of Ginnungagap and there dwells the hrimthursar (Frost Giants) and here is also Helgardh located.

Niflheim is ruled by the goddess Hel, daughter to Loki by the giantess Angrboda, personally appointed by Odin to rule over Niflheim. Half of her body is normal, while the other half is that of a rotting corpse. Niflheim is broken into several layers. One level designed for heroes and gods, where Hel would preside over the festivities for them. Another is reserved for the elderly, the sick, and those who are unable to die gloriously in battle and enter Valhalla. The lowest level resembled the Christian version of Hell, where the wicked are forced to live forever.


which would mean that it is only the lowest regions of nifelhem that is a nasty place.


i love the concept of naglfar also; the ship made from the collected nail-clippings of the dead. be sure to keep your toenails short!

 

[lovedmb]

And you can't be forced to believe.

Did you want to address my actual post or is this it?

 

[finalfrogo]

But this is how most major religions become major religions in the first place. By frightening the vulnerable and ignorant into joining them either with here-and-now threats of violence and hardship or with dire warnings of eternal punishment if you refuse, you create a compelling case for conversion for someone who doesn't really know any better (or who cannot defend themselves.) This is traditionally how it was done in years gone past; conversion at the tip of a sword or with a lick of hellfire and, as you can see by world's current religious landscape, it worked very well.

If you look at most religions that do not seek and have not actively sought converts, or have done so without threats, they are generally much smaller and less powerful than those that do.

If you give people a real option instead of de facto "gun to the head" kind of "choice", then there's the very real possibility that will they simply decline your offer of "salvation". If your religion compels you to bring people into the fold, then I imagine the dirty tricks suddenly seem a great deal more reasonable and can be rationalised by believing that you're "doing them a favour" by letting people know about the danger they face if they don't join you.

To me, it always seemed like what amounted to a large-scale mafia protection racket.

I completely agree!

 

[may]

It doesn't matter what the original meaning was. What's important is the meaning the word had when it was recorded in the scriptures.

the original words were in the hebrew and greek and they were sheol (hebrew)and hades(greek) and it just meant mankinds common grave , that is what God meant .

 

[may]

Greetings

This is something that has bothered me for a while now: In a lot of conversations with (mostly) reborn again Christian friends of mine, yes FRIENDS, I have asked the question of them regarding what is going to happen to me when I die. Since I've spent just about my entire conscious life trying to find something to believe in and they on the most part profess to have found a belief that they can centre their entire lives around, it seems sensible to get to grips with their viewpoint. One of the main things I have been completely unable to wrap my head around is that a lot of them are quite looking forward to their eternity in heaven and yet when pressed will happily describe to me visions of my eternal suffering. What's an eternal bliss when your best friend is roasting in a fiery pit?

Thanks for listening.

Cheers.

dont worry ,you most certainly are NOT going to hellfire

 

[Squirt]

I'm a Christian, Alan. So, you probably already know my answer to this and our views are going to differ.

I accept both the OT and NT of the Bible to be the Word of God, and according to the Bible, the only way to the Father is through Christ.

Dawny,

Have you ever stopped to consider the possibility that the Bible may not address every conceivable set of circumstances that exists in the world? I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father, too, but I don't believe the Bible is a complete record of everything God has ever said or done. I believe it's the truth, but I don't believe it is the whole truth. Interestingly, it never claims to be.

 

[nutshell]

Dawny,

Have you ever stopped to consider the possibility that the Bible may not address every conceivable set of circumstances that exists in the world? I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father, too, but I don't believe the Bible is a complete record of everything God has ever said or done. I believe it's the truth, but I don't believe it is the whole truth. Interestingly, it never claims to be.

That's very true. Isn't there a verse about this? I believe it's in John and it says that Jesus did many other great and marvelous things, which, if recorded, there would not be enough space in the world to contain the books that would be written.

Ironically, when I make the same argument, Squirt, to support the Book of Mormon or Latter-day revelation, I usually get blasted.

Anyway, I that's not the purpose of this thread so I'll move along.

 

[dawny0826]

Dawny,

Have you ever stopped to consider the possibility that the Bible may not address every conceivable set of circumstances that exists in the world? I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father, too, but I don't believe the Bible is a complete record of everything God has ever said or done. I believe it's the truth, but I don't believe it is the whole truth. Interestingly, it never claims to be.

Squirt,

I believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. can only Trust what my God has instructed me to do and focus on my responsibilities as a Christian to witness to and love others. Christ is the Good News...period. I'm to do my best on a daily basis to carry out God's will for my life.

According to the Christian view on eternal life...most (not all) but most Christians believe that without Christ there is no life in death. Those without Christ will perish. But as I've stated before, I can only do what I can do as a Christian to spread the word. God is going to worry about the fate of those individuals who have not heard of Christ. I have no control over their eternal fate. I am to follow as called to witness and stand firm in Christ and that's all that any of us can do in that regard.

So, whether or not the Bible covers every single "conceivable set of circumstance" that exists or not is a non issue to me. I trust in what IS there and I trust that God knows what's He's doing. I don't believe it's possible for God to make mistakes.

 

[gnostic]

Am I going to hell?

Only if you had paid and booked a seat for hell. Otherwise, you would be refused entry at the gate.

 

[sojourner]

you'd certainly think so. or maybe it is some of his followers who are nasty?

wouldn't god's love be enough of a motivator?

this view of god as one who punishes out of love - i've heard certain christians refer to hell as something god created out of love for humanity - seem to fit the image of an old-style patriarch perfectly. the kind of 'family leader' who beats children out of love...

I don't think God punishes out of love. I think we've been given a choice as to whether or not we believe, and whether or not we follow. It has to be our choice, because God is love and love does not coerce. I think our concept of God is too narrow, though. Who's to say that God isn't so great -- that God's love for us isn't so perfect and, therefore, so compelling (who doesn't want to be loved greatly???), that, when we see God face-to-face and are confronted with that perfect love, that we will be able to make any other choice than to accept wholly that perfect love with which God confronts us?

 

[lovedmb]

I don't think God punishes out of love. I think we've been given a choice as to whether or not we believe, and whether or not we follow. It has to be our choice, because God is love and love does not coerce. I think our concept of God is too narrow, though. Who's to say that God isn't so great -- that God's love for us isn't so perfect and, therefore, so compelling (who doesn't want to be loved greatly???), that, when we see God face-to-face and are confronted with that perfect love, that we will be able to make any other choice than to accept wholly that perfect love with which God confronts us?

Then doesn't that negate faith? If in the end we will meet God and know, then of course we wouldn't choose hell...right?
Am I missing something here?

As for "God is love an dlove does not coerce" I disagree. The very definition of coerce is IMO *exactly* what "God" does.
From Websters:

Main Entry: co·erce
Pronunciation: kO-'&rs
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): co·erced; co·erc·ing
Etymology: Latin coercEre, from co- + arcEre to shut up, enclose -- more at [size=-1]ARK[/size]
1 : to restrain or dominate by force <religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious -- W. R. Inge>
2 : to compel to an act or choice
3 : to bring about by force or threat <coerce the compliance of the rest of the community -- Scott Buchanan>

If you have two choices, believe or don't, and two consequences Heaven or Hell (eternal suffering), then how can you suggest that this is not in fact coercion? There is the "Right" choice and the "Wrong" choice.

 

[sojourner]

Then doesn't that negate faith? If in the end we will meet God and know, then of course we wouldn't choose hell...right?
Am I missing something here?

As for "God is love an dlove does not coerce" I disagree. The very definition of coerce is IMO *exactly* what "God" does.
From Websters:

Main Entry: co·erce
Pronunciation: kO-'&rs
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): co·erced; co·erc·ing
Etymology: Latin coercEre, from co- + arcEre to shut up, enclose -- more at [size=-1]ARK[/size]
1 : to restrain or dominate by force <religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious -- W. R. Inge>
2 : to compel to an act or choice
3 : to bring about by force or threat <coerce the compliance of the rest of the community -- Scott Buchanan>

If you have two choices, believe or don't, and two consequences Heaven or Hell (eternal suffering), then how can you suggest that this is not in fact coercion? There is the "Right" choice and the "Wrong" choice.

I don't believe God coerces us. I do think that God's love is so great that, once we experience it, we will not want anything else. Our choice. That's not coersion. I think that many Christians and many Christian communities use coersion. I think that's a crappy thing to do to people. We spend way too much time forcing people and not nearly enough time loving them.

I don't believe in the "consequences." I think that God's love, shown in Christ's sacrifice, closed the gates of hell to humanity. There is no "right" or "wrong" choice.

Being faced with God in the end has nothing to do with faith here and now. Paul tells us that now we walk by faith, not by sight. Some of us will peresevere by faith, and we will still be overwhelmed by the truth of God when we see God. Some will refuse to walk by faith, and will still be overwhelmed when they see God.

I don't see where our faith has to do with salvation at all. Faith is a response to hearing the good news of our salvation -- a response to the love we perceive from God.

 

[nutshell]

Not all Christians believe in an either/or afterlife.

 

[lovedmb]

Not all Christians believe in an either/or afterlife.

Nope. You are right, though I didn't say "All Christians". LDS believe in muddling it a bit with the three degrees of glory, but in the end, same difference. So you aren't tossed into a pit of fire and brimstone, you just instead get to be separated for eternity from God and your family. And you are taught how horrible that will be, which is essentially the same thing, just put in a "softer" light, so to speak.

Be Mormon, and a good, "worthy" one at that, or you lose your loved ones for eternity.

Yeah. Not much nicer when you really think about it.

It still comes down to two basic choices, Be Mormon, or Don't. Consequences are "Live happily ever after in Heaven with God and your loved ones, or be "bannished" to a lower "kingdom" separated from everyone.

 

[nutshell]

Nope. You are right, though I didn't say "All Christians". LDS believe in muddling it a bit with the three degrees of glory, but in the end, same difference. So you aren't tossed into a pit of fire and brimstone, you just instead get to be separated for eternity from God and your family. And you are taught how horrible that will be, which is essentially the same thing, just put in a "softer" light, so to speak.

Be Mormon, and a good, "worthy" one at that, or you lose your loved ones for eternity.

Yeah. Not much nicer when you really think about it.

It still comes down to two basic choices, Be Mormon, or Don't. Consequences are "Live happily ever after in Heaven with God and your loved ones, or be "bannished" to a lower "kingdom" separated from everyone.

You obviously know nothing of LDS teachings.

There is no such thing as "Be Mormon, or Don't." It's all about accepting Christ and doing all that is asked.

 

[nutshell]

Nope. You are right, though I didn't say "All Christians". LDS believe in muddling it a bit with the three degrees of glory, but in the end, same difference. So you aren't tossed into a pit of fire and brimstone, you just instead get to be separated for eternity from God and your family. And you are taught how horrible that will be, which is essentially the same thing, just put in a "softer" light, so to speak.

Be Mormon, and a good, "worthy" one at that, or you lose your loved ones for eternity.

Yeah. Not much nicer when you really think about it.

It still comes down to two basic choices, Be Mormon, or Don't. Consequences are "Live happily ever after in Heaven with God and your loved ones, or be "bannished" to a lower "kingdom" separated from everyone.

Further, know one is "banished." I believe, in the end, we get to decide where we'll end up because we'll have a perfect knowledge of the choices and the consequences.

 

[nutshell]

Nope. You are right, though I didn't say "All Christians". LDS believe in muddling it a bit with the three degrees of glory, but in the end, same difference. So you aren't tossed into a pit of fire and brimstone, you just instead get to be separated for eternity from God and your family. And you are taught how horrible that will be, which is essentially the same thing, just put in a "softer" light, so to speak.

Be Mormon, and a good, "worthy" one at that, or you lose your loved ones for eternity.

Yeah. Not much nicer when you really think about it.

It still comes down to two basic choices, Be Mormon, or Don't. Consequences are "Live happily ever after in Heaven with God and your loved ones, or be "bannished" to a lower "kingdom" separated from everyone.

Oh, and one more thing. The third "degree," as you put it, is a paradise compared to where we're at now.

 

[lovedmb]

I don't believe God coerces us. I do think that God's love is so great that, once we experience it, we will not want anything else. Our choice. That's not coersion. I think that many Christians and many Christian communities use coersion. I think that's a crappy thing to do to people. We spend way too much time forcing people and not nearly enough time loving them.

I understand what you are saying, but then what is the point of worrying about it on earth? If we will be presented with knowledge then you no longer need faith.
I agree that many (IMO *all*) Christians communities use coersion. I also agree that it is crappy, which is why I'm not one.

I don't believe in the "consequences." I think that God's love, shown in Christ's sacrifice, closed the gates of hell to humanity. There is no "right" or "wrong" choice.

How can you not believe in consequences? I'm afraid I don't follow. Unless you are specifically speaking in a negative connotations. But consequences themselves are not inherently "bad" or "good". Heaven would be a consequense of doing whatever it is that God wants you to do to get there. Hell is a consequense of getting it wrong. So you don't believe anyone will be in hell? How do you come to that conclusion? There is a "right" and "wrong" choice. You believe in Jesus or you are wrong. I can't understand how you see this differently while believing in the Bible.

Being faced with God in the end has nothing to do with faith here and now. Paul tells us that now we walk by faith, not by sight. Some of us will peresevere by faith, and we will still be overwhelmed by the truth of God when we see God. Some will refuse to walk by faith, and will still be overwhelmed when they see God.

Then I'm not sure what purpose faith serves. Why bother? I have very happy, full life without Christianity. If I'm supposed to believe in God, but don't, and then he presents himself to me, and I am overwhelmed with "truth", then what difference does it make if I go to church on Sunday?

I don't see where our faith has to do with salvation at all. Faith is a response to hearing the good news of our salvation -- a response to the love we perceive from God.

I have always thought the point of faith was to "prove" to God that you could "pass the test" to get back to heaven. I have heard all the "good news", and frankly I don't buy it. I don't perceive the Christian God to be loving, or even very kind, and dare I say intelligent. It seems to me if he were any of the above, that he would have thought up a better system to bring his children home to him. The one he has now is rather shoddy.

 

[lovedmb]

You obviously know nothing of LDS teachings.

There is no such thing as "Be Mormon, or Don't." It's all about accepting Christ and doing all that is asked.

Really? So if I am following another Christian denom, and I reject LDS teachings, I can still have eternal life, with my family and God?

And I would bet money, marbles or chalk, I know Mormonism just as well as you think you do.

 

[lovedmb]

Oh, and one more thing. The third "degree," as you put it, is a paradise compared to where we're at now.

I was taught that it would be like earth.