Am I a Biggot?

[ChristineES]

My problem with religious people is that I think they choose to be ignorant/stupid by never questioning their beliefs. If they were just to examine their faith, I genuinely believe that they wouldn't believe in the worthless drivel it teaches; but they don't so because of that I don't respect them like I would an Atheist.

Theists never question their beliefs? That is absurd. I question everything I believe in regularly. Just because I decided I didn't want to become an atheist like you did doesn't mean I am choosing to be ignorant or stupid. You seem to be judging everyone by your own point of view- a common practice, but not very enlightening. You have to look at someone from outside your point of view.

 

[DarkMaster24]

Theists never question their beliefs? That is absurd. I question everything I believe in regularly. Just because I decided I didn't want to become an atheist like you did doesn't mean I am choosing to be ignorant or stupid. You seem to be judging everyone by your own point of view- a common practice, but not very enlightening. You have to look at someone from outside your point of view.

That is another thing that is hard for me most of the time. i just can't empathize/sympathize with people because I can't relate to them because I don't know their situation. If I did, I might not be as against their beliefs as I am.

 

[ChristineES]

That is another thing that is hard for me most of the time. i just can't empathize/sympathize with people because I can't relate to them because I don't know their situation. If I did, I might not be as against their beliefs as I am.

There are some people who have trouble relating to those different than themselves- I don't really see a big problem with that- But you do miss out. I can also stand if someone was against my faith as long as they don't make me into an enemy- I think nearly everyone feels the same.

 

[DarkMaster24]

Yeah, it's something I've struggled with my whole life, and I'm hoping Ill get better at it eventually. I don't concider them enemies (only enemies of reason of course, to quote Richard Dawkins, hehe) but it does irritate me. Still though, I accept people for who they are, even if my opinion of them is devalued.

 

[Apex]

You might find it easier to get away with saying that you disdain the willfully ignorant than you would with saying that you disdain the religious.

But it looks like he actually does disdain the religious.

With that kind of attitude he should fit right in on RF.
:run:


/sarcasm

 

[Apex]

Thanks for all the questions. Now, I'd like to take the time to address them.

My problem with religious people is that I think they choose to be ignorant/stupid by never questioning their beliefs.

I have questioned my beliefs on many occasions.

If they were just to examine their faith, I genuinely believe that they wouldn't believe in the worthless drivel it teaches;

If you really want to have a friendly discussion with theists about this problem, you need to avoid the insults like "worthless drivel". I know some atheists say these things as second nature, but it is really annoying and offensive. You will get nowhere in a discussion talking like that.

but they don't so because of that I don't respect them like I would an Atheist.

Many of us have examined the Atheist religion (yes, it is becoming a religion) and have determined it requires just as much faith as any theistic faith.

I don't hate regular stupid people because I don't feel that it's their choice to be the way they are, they've just been unlucky in their life, whereas I think religious people can be more intelligent than they seem.

Ask yourself, if you wanted to, could you really change the core of your atheist beliefs? If the answer is no, then what do you think that means for the core beliefs of theists? Do you think they will be able to change them on a whim?

 

[Kathryn]

Because when you have friends when you are younger, you don't care if they are "smart" or "stupid," wrong or right, or religious or not. You just like them because they are nice to you, or maybe you don't like them because they are mean. I think the key is to remember that everyone is different. I've come across some religious people who I'd like to just punch in the face because they are jerks about their religion, or have ideas that seem completely stupid to the point where it seems like they are just screwing with me, because NO ONE could possibly believe something so stupid, but I have also come across atheists who are the same way; jerks, and with stupid ideas about science. But you've got to remember that just because some religious people are stupid jerks, and just because some non-religious people are stupid jerks doesn't mean they all are. If you think less of entire groups of people just based on the realitiies of a few belonging to the group, you are going to have to think less of everyone in the world.[/quote]


Good response.

 

[Kathryn]

I used to go to a protestant church when I was Christian and left once i realized they were brainwashing me by trying to trick me into believing their conservative agenda. [/quote]

I don't know about that particular church, so I'm speaking generally. Did you ever stop to think that maybe they weren't trying to brainwash you? That maybe instead they were a group of people who genuinely believe in the tenets of their faith and the applications to their lives, which would create a conservative mindset, and that, based on those fervent beliefs and their life experiences, they believe earnestly that YOUR life would be bettered by embracing those same beliefs?

In other words, their "agenda" was based out of love for you as a person?

By the way, everyone has an agenda - everyone. What I mean by that is that we all have beliefs and opinions. Our beliefs shape our actions. Our actions have consequences, good and bad. Most of those consequences are obvious to others. It is common human nature to validate our actions (good and bad), and to enjoy it when other people share our beliefs.

Furthermore, when a person truly believes something is right, and good, and would better the lives of others, isn't it a KINDNESS to share that belief?

Isn't that what people of every sort of belief system do in here every single day?

 

[Kathryn]

Yes - you're a bigot. You think less of people because of their religious beliefs. You don't know anything else about them. Their religious beliefs are your sole motivation.

If you had substituted religious for race or homosexuality or gender etc. ... then the bigotry would be immediately called out by the members of this board. However, despite the forum name, religion is usually vilified here.

(sighs) I absolutely agree with your post, and sometimes it is very tiresome to tolerate the opinions expressed toward my deeply held beliefs. I continue to post here though because I believe sincerely that I should stand up for what I believe in. I believe that my faith and belief system has bettered my life and the lives of my family, and I KNOW that when I've stepped off that path (and I certainly have) that my life has been negatively impacted.

I hope that by sharing my beliefs and experiences, that others may take a second look at their own beliefs and life, and at least CONSIDER that there may be some truth to Christianity - maybe they will give it a try, or a second chance, or at least gain some insight into Christians and our motivations.

I think this forum is a great way to understand others - and if we read the posts with an open mind, and really try to understand the other person's point of view, rather than simply debate because we love to read our own words - we will be better for it.

Seek first to understand. I love that concept - it forces me to really try to look into the other person's mind and soul before responding.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes, they are, and the religion they practices was protestantism.

There are over 38,000 protestant sects/denominations. Please don't judge all protestants by one small group! That definitely is bigotry!

 

[Kathryn]

I've tried to look at it that way before-especially for their sake, but I used to be religious and I was able to convert to Atheism by looking at the evidance with an objective point-of-veiw. I think they can do the same, but because they don't, I can't help but feel that they are stupid and ignorant.
But you are certianly right to note that I can't force myself to believe an absurd premise like that, in the same way I can't force to accept Christ as my Messiah.
It's just that I can't get myself to believe in something so irrational, but I firmly believe they can stop believing in something in my eyes that is so stupid if they were to concider the evidance.

The great author, CS Lewis, had one of the most brilliant minds of the 20th century. He was once an atheist, and in his 30s converted to Christianity. He most certainly didn't mean to - he was at one point in his life extremely against Christianity.

My point is that greater minds than yours or mine have differing views. For every example you could give of a convert to atheism, I could give you an example of a convert to Christianity.

By the way, Ayn Rand was an atheist and she also had one of the greatest minds of the 20th century.

As a Christian, I don't believe that 21st century man has all the answers right. When I have to choose between man's "rationality" and ever-shifting concepts, and the Creator's wisdom, my vote is with the Creator. That's a very simplistic way of putting it, and absolutely not the entire basis for my Christian faith, but it's a conclusion I have come to over 47 years of experience, study, research, and prayer.

I am thankful every single day for all that God has done for me in my life. I cannot imagine living outside of His grace. Well, actually, I can imagine it because I've done it, but I can't imagine going back to that lifestyle.

 

[Smoke]

The great author, CS Lewis, had one of the most brilliant minds of the 20th century.

I can't understand for the life of me why people think that. Lewis was fair to middling as a thinker and as an author. Of course, his brilliance or lack thereof doesn't really reflect on either his atheism or his later Christianity.

 

[tomspug]

If I think less of people because they are religious? Like people here, people like Kathryn and Watchmen, I think they seem to be like great people, but somehow I feel like I think less of them then I would if they werent religious. I feel bad about it, but I can't help it.

You'll get over it. It's an immature impulse, the same as if a religious person thought less of atheists. We're all human, and we are all self-justified in the choices we have made. It seems odd to think less of someone when you are so ignorant of the roads they have taken to get where they are.

 

[Watchmen]

I can't understand for the life of me why people think that. Lewis was fair to middling as a thinker and as an author. Of course, his brilliance or lack thereof doesn't really reflect on either his atheism or his later Christianity.

Have you read the Screwtape Letters?

 

[rojse]

But it looks like he actually does disdain the religious.

With that kind of attitude he should fit right in on RF.
:run:


/sarcasm

That's hardly fair. Most of us took the time to read an individual's posts before dismissing them.

 

[Watchmen]

That's hardly fair. Most of us took the time to read an individual's posts before dismissing them.

I agree with Apex. There's a good mix here, but there is a fair share of disdain for religion on the RF.

 

[rojse]

I agree with Apex. There's a good mix here, but there is a fair share of disdain for religion on the RF.

I respect you and Katzpur, for example, even knowing that you are both religious. I won't list those I have little respect for, because that would be rude.

Sure, there's disdain by some posters regarding religion, but let's not tar every non-theist with the same brush.

 

[McBell]

Sure, there's disdain by some posters regarding religion, but let's not tar every non-theist with the same brush.

Especially after complaining that non-theists paint all theists the same way....

 

[Katzpur]

If I think less of people because they are religious? Like people here, people like Kathryn and Watchmen, I think they seem to be like great people, but somehow I feel like I think less of them then I would if they werent religious. I feel bad about it, but I can't help it.

Sorry, I'm not even going to answer that question. I think you already know the answer anyway. Would I be a bigot if I thought less of you because you were an atheist? Probably. There are plenty of reasons why I feel justified in not liking certain people -- reasons like the fact that they're rude, insulting, disrespectful, self-righteous, etc. The fact that somebody doesn't share my beliefs seldom enters in to how I feel about him. If it did, I'd think a lot less of most of the world's population than I do.

It's not like if I want to be this way-Indeed, I'm trying to change.

That's very good to hear. I can almost guarantee that with that attitude, you will change. You will discover that it's entirely possible to actually develop friendships with people whose beliefs are vastly different from yours.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm biased against religious people, and because they are religious they seem less intelligent to me.

Suppose I were to say to you, "I'm biased against atheists, and because they are atheists they seem to lack a conscience or any sense of moral decency." Wouldn't that make you angry? If it wouldn't, it should, because it's false and you know it. It's highly insulting to religious people to be thought of as stupid when so many of them are highly intelligent. Seriously, I'm glad you're trying to work through these feelings. You'll come away a better person for it.