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Almost all religions have some form of the golden rule

idav

Being
Premium Member
One might perceive the Golden Rule (also known as the Law of Reciprocity) as being exclusively 'good.'

As I see it, there is a potential problem with the Golden Rule. As written, doesn't it justify just about anything one would want to do to another?

Example: One has a rape fetish and gets off of being raped. Doesn't the Golden Rule justify that person raping someone else?

Thoughts?
Interesting thought. In the Bible it gets into love, so it goes something like, love the neighbor as the self. It could be argued that self harm is not love of the self. Also when adding love to the equation one would end up having to consider if another person necessarily wants the same as what the self wants. That would in some cases make S&M, for example, moral but I’ve seen “14 Shades of Grey” and that can get iffy pretty quick.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I believe the golden rule is universal because there is One Creator who has written this on every heart and human conscience. As Jesus stated when asked about the greatest commandments...And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Matthew 22:39
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
I believe the golden rule is universal because there is One Creator who has written this on every heart and human conscience. As Jesus stated when asked about the greatest commandments...And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Matthew 22:39
Believe as you will, but I'm pretty sure that this cannot be found in every conscience.
Great, however, that you base your morals on what you feel in your own heart :)
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Almost all religions advocate eating to remain alive. That proves that all religions share a common thread.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Although most great religions claim their religion is the only path to salvation, I think all religions are trying to achieve the same goal. As far as I can tell, people just want to raise their children in piece and provide a better life for their children they they or their parents had. I think this is pretty much Universal all over the planet. We need to see our ourselves more as people of Earth and not so much the degrading labels we give each other to scapegoat our personal and social problems.

When studying Joseph Campbell was the first time I studied comparative mythology and comparative religion. Most of world's great religions all have very common and similar threads of truth. We all love the golden rule because as an idea it is probably the single greatest achievement of man to justify having morals in our behaviors. I thought it would be nice to point out a number of expressions of the golden rule in some of the world's great religious disciplines:

Baha’i Faith
Lay not on any soul a load that you would not wish to be laid upon you, and desire not for anyone the things you would not desire for yourself.
Baha’u’llah, Gleanings

Buddhism
Treat not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
The Buddha, Udana-Varga 5.18

Christianity
In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.
Jesus, Matthew 7:12

Confucianism
One word which sums up the basis of all good conduct … loving-kindness. Do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself.
Confucius Analects 15.23

Hinduism
This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you.
Mahabharata 5:1517

Islam
Not one of you truly believes until you wish for others what you wish for yourself.
The Prophet Muhammad, Hadith

Book 001, Number 0072:

It is arrested on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon
him) observed: one amongst you believes (truly) till one likes for his brother or for his neighbour
that which he loves for himself.

Jainism
One should treat all creatures in the world as one would like to be treated.
Mahavira, Sutrakritanga

Judaism
What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it.
Hillel, Talmud, Shabbath 31a

Native Spirituality
We are as much alive as we keep the earth alive.
Chief Dan George

Sikhism
I am a stranger to no one; and no one is a stranger to me. Indeed, I am a friend to all.
Guru Granth Sahib, p. 1299

Taoism
Regard your neighbour’s gain as your own gain and your neighbour’s loss as your own loss.
Lao Tzu, T’ai Shang Kan Ying P’ien, 213-218

Unitarianism
We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
Unitarian principle

Zoroastrianism
Do not do unto others whatever is injurious to yourself.
Shayast-na-Shayast 13.29

It really doesn't matter which word or syllables you use for "God". We have more in common than the war propaganda would have us think!


"Love one another as I [Jesus have loved you]" seems a higher standard
Jesus loved the unlovely and died for them
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
One might perceive the Golden Rule (also known as the Law of Reciprocity) as being exclusively 'good.'

As I see it, there is a potential problem with the Golden Rule. As written, doesn't it justify just about anything one would want to do to another?

Example: One has a rape fetish and gets off of being raped. Doesn't the Golden Rule justify that person raping someone else?

Thoughts?

No, it does not. Treating others as you would want to be treated means that you would not force your particular fantasies onto someone else, just as you would not want other people to force their particular fantasies onto you.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
This defect has been noted and discussed elsewhere, where it has been addressed by a few variants on the Golden Rule - "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

One is, "Don't do unto others what you would not want done to you." This has the same problem. What if the other guy wants it?

Another, sometimes called the Platinum Rule, is "Do unto others as they would have done unto themselves."

Then there's the "He asked for it" variation - "As you treat others, so shall you be treated" This is completely different in spirit from any of the others. It basically says that how you treat others justifies them treating you in kind.

I don't see the conflict. Unless the person with the rape fetish wants other people to force their particular fetishes onto them, then they wouldn't force their particular fetishes onto anyone else.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
No, it does not. Treating others as you would want to be treated means that you would not force your particular fantasies onto someone else, just as you would not want other people to force their particular fantasies onto you.

As much as you would like it to, this does not eliminate the potential problem. Rape by definition is an act of force. How are you coming to the conclusion that one who enjoys being raped doesn't enjoy fetishes being forced upon them? Not that great of a stretch, is it?
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
As much as you would like it to, this does not eliminate the potential problem. Rape by definition is an act of force. How are you coming to the conclusion that one who enjoys being raped doesn't enjoy fetishes being forced upon them? Not that great of a stretch, is it?

A huge stretch, actually. A person with a rape fetish or fantasy likes the idea of being forced to do something that they WANT to have happen. If they did not WANT to have it happen then it would NOT be a fetish/fantasy. A person with a rape fetish/fantasy likes the ILLUSION of being forced to do what they actually really want. Suggesting that just because someone has a rape fetish/fantasy that it means they want to be forced to do things that they dislike is absolutely ludicrous.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
"Love one another as I [Jesus have loved you]" seems a higher standard
Jesus loved the unlovely and died for them

God existed before Jesus and after. Let's not forget God by idolizing the words of the Bible. Jesus was a great Jewish rabbi and a great teacher. I think Jesus died for his teachings as well.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
It really doesn't matter which word or syllables you use for "God". We have more in common than the war propaganda would have us think!

I take it that you associate the Golden Rule (which, IMO, is a rather basic moral drive) to God-beliefs somehow?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Yeah, people love to label and scapegoat each other. I just thought it was interesting with all the labels and scapegoats people are really all just the same.
Actually, it is not. As I just said, the Golden Rule is a rather basic level of morality-building.

From there you can go to a variety of ways, from the tribalistic "us vs them" thinking of the Qur'an that very nearly empties the meaning of the Rule to the extreme compassion of Jainism.

And then there is the good stuff that dares to go beyond rules, as exemplified by Utilitarian Ethics.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Actually, it is not. As I just said, the Golden Rule is a rather basic level of morality-building.

From there you can go to a variety of ways, from the tribalistic "us vs them" thinking of the Qur'an that very nearly empties the meaning of the Rule to the extreme compassion of Jainism.

And then there is the good stuff that dares to go beyond rules, as exemplified by Utilitarian Ethics.

I have met many Muslims. They are no different than you an I. I was referring to people.. Are you claiming because someone is a Muslim they are just inherently evil. Labels are bad. People just want to live in peace, raise their children, and hope their children have a better life than they have had.

The golden rule I quoted for Muslims was not in the Qur'an it was in the Hadith.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I take it that you associate the Golden Rule (which, IMO, is a rather basic moral drive) to God-beliefs somehow?

I think the idea of the golden rule comes from people's vagus nerves. Our vagus nerves give us the ability to experience emotions around empathy. Psychopaths in incapable of feeling empathy which is why they can kill other people without hesitation.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I have met many Muslims. They are no different than you an I.

I was talking about Islaam. People are indeed pretty much the same everywhere, up to and including a strong tendency to conform to the expectations of the closest peers.

I was referring to people. Are you claiming because someone is a Muslim they are just inherently evil.

Nope. I am saying instead that Islaam is inherently more trouble than it is worth. Muslims tend to rise above Islaam, as one would expect.


Labels are bad. People just want to live in peace, raise their children, and hope their children have a better life than they have had.

The golden rule I quoted for Muslims was not in the Qur'an it was in the Hadith.

Appropriate and ironical enough. :)
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
Well-researched thread by dfnj. Great example. :)

Here is the golden rule in Wicca and Scientology....


Wicca: "An it harm no one, do what thou wilt" - Wiccan Rede


Scientology: "20: Try to treat others as you would want them to treat you." - This is one of the 21 moral precepts that form the moral code explained in L. Ron Hubbard's booklet "The Way to Happiness."
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We all love the golden rule because as an idea it is probably the single greatest achievement of man to justify having morals in our behaviors.
Reciprocity is part of the evolved (hence genetic) morality of humans. If you watch even tiny children playing together you can see it for yourself. No surprise, then, that it's found throughout the ages and in all countries.

And to your examples of the 'Golden Rule' from religion, you might add secular sources, like the Code of Hammurabi (about 1755 BCE), which says ─

196: If a man destroys the eye of another man, they shall destroy his eye. If one breaks a man's bone, they shall break his bone. ...
Reciprocity in action, found in a great many legal codes.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Reciprocity is part of the evolved (hence genetic) morality of humans. If you watch even tiny children playing together you can see it for yourself. No surprise, then, that it's found throughout the ages and in all countries.

And to your examples of the 'Golden Rule' from religion, you might add secular sources, like the Code of Hammurabi (about 1755 BCE), which says ─

196: If a man destroys the eye of another man, they shall destroy his eye. If one breaks a man's bone, they shall break his bone. ...
Reciprocity in action, found in a great many legal codes.

This is how I feel about everything you post. I just want to beat you with your own words.
 
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