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Allah's failure to communicate.

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Verse 33:33 tells us, only the Household of the Prophet are purified:

"...God only wants to remove from you all that might be loathsome, O you members of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you to utmost purity" 33:33

It's hard to know what to say about this. Either you utterly missed the point of that verse (and those immediately preceding it), or you're trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Let's get a running start by going back to 33:30, and then going from there:

33:30 - O wives of the Prophet! Whoever of you commits an open illegal sexual intercourse, the torment for her will be doubled, and that is ever easy for Allah.
33:31 - To whoever of you obeys God and His Messenger and acts righteously, We will give double reward and a honorable sustenance.
33:32 - Wives of the Prophet, you are not as other women. If you are godfearing, be not abject in your speech, so that he in whose heart is sickness may be lustful; but speak honourable words.
33:33 - Remain in your houses; and display not your finery, as did the pagans of old. And perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and obey God and His Messenger. People of the House, God only desires to put away from you abomination and to cleanse you.


These verses are nothing more than Mohamed trying to keep his wives in line. Verse 33 isn't saying that Allah wants to purify ONLY the household of Mohamed - it's saying that the ONLY thing Allah is trying to do by revealing these verses is to keep Mohamed's household pure.

It's so obvious that I can only conclude that you're trying to fool us.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
It's hard to know what to say about this. Either you utterly missed the point of that verse (and those immediately preceding it), or you're trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Let's get a running start by going back to 33:30, and then going from there:

33:30 - O wives of the Prophet! Whoever of you commits an open illegal sexual intercourse, the torment for her will be doubled, and that is ever easy for Allah.
33:31 - To whoever of you obeys God and His Messenger and acts righteously, We will give double reward and a honorable sustenance.
33:32 - Wives of the Prophet, you are not as other women. If you are godfearing, be not abject in your speech, so that he in whose heart is sickness may be lustful; but speak honourable words.
33:33 - Remain in your houses; and display not your finery, as did the pagans of old. And perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and obey God and His Messenger. People of the House, God only desires to put away from you abomination and to cleanse you.


These verses are nothing more than Mohamed trying to keep his wives in line. Verse 33 isn't saying that Allah wants to purify ONLY the household of Mohamed - it's saying that the ONLY thing Allah is trying to do by revealing these verses is to keep Mohamed's household pure.

It's so obvious that I can only conclude that you're trying to fool us.

The term "purification" is indicative of having important place among all people.

In the same Surrah:


"And when said the Angels, "O Maryam! Indeed, Allah (has) chosen you and purified you and chosen you over (the) women (of) the worlds" 33:42

Verse 33:33 is giving same station as Mary, to the Household of the Prophet.

I would consider that we should understand verses based on the recorded traditions. As Muhammad Himself said:

"I leave you two weighty things, if you stick to both you will never go astray after me: the Book of Allah and my progeny." "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to both of them, you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is, my Ahl al-Bayt."


So, just as Mary has a special and holy place in Christianity, the Household of Muhammad has same stations in Quran.
According to Hadithes the Household is a reference to Ali, Hassan, Hussein, Fatima and the Imams after them.


"The likeness of the people of my house is the ship of Noah: Whoever boards it is safe and whoever abandons it is drowned."[45][46][6] Also ascribed to Muhammad is the hadith, "By Him in Whose Hand is my soul, faith will never enter a person's heart until he loves them [Muhammad's family] for the sake of God and for the fact that they are my kin."[46]

From all these traditions, it is obvious, the term :Household: has to do with farther guidance in addition to Quran, which is required in order to have a true Faith.
 
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stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
The term "purification" is indicative of having important place among all people.

You completely ignored the fact that these verses are aimed at Mohamed's wives, and only Mohamed's wives. The "purification" being spoken of is clearly referring to the need for them to remain faithful to Mohamed and to not temp other men. That is ALL that it says.

Are really going to just blow past that fact and continue this ridiculous claim?
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Yes, the Quran does not name the twelve Imams explicitly, but If we read the Quran well, it gives hints who are the well grounded in knowledge.
Indeed. So it is unreasonable to insist that it is only referring to your 12 imams when there are far more reasonable interpretations - basically, those who have studied and understood the Quran in depth.
However, the problem you face is that no one can agree on what the Quran does mean, even experienced, learned scholars re. apparently clear and simple instructions (4:34 being a perfect example).

The hints directs us to the Family of the Prophet, as follows step by step:
Verse 33:33 tells us, only the Household of the Prophet are purified:
"...God only wants to remove from you all that might be loathsome, O you members of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you to utmost purity" 33:33
Two big problems here.
1. It does not say that only members of Muhammad's family are pure. You made that up.
2. The context is about lust and sexual sin, not about scriptural knowledge.

According to Ibn Abbas (who is one of the people "firm in knowledge, remember) the verse was revealed to prevent Muhammad's wives from acting improperly. So not. about who else was "firm in knowledge".

Who are the members of Household of the Prophet?
Verse of Purification - Wikipedia
You will note that the article states that your position is a minority Shia interpretation, rejected my the majority of scholars. Your argument again is merely based on agenda-driven confirmation bias. There is no reasonable argument for it, it is just what you believe.
 
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KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
True. God guides to the truth per Quran and part of relying on him is to rely on his rope, and Quran is one part of the rope but revelations never came alone, they came with chosen ones who the revelations testify to.

Make that of what you will, but you won't even given the sent ones (mursaleen which is often translated as Messengers or Prophets but doesn't mean either but is of both and more) a chance to prove their case in the Quran and annul the sorcery, but rather, you went by power structures of popularity that has to do with history and injustice towards the good people and chosen ones that these evil people became popular as scholars and authorities in religion, that's up to you.

The affluent of ideas often misguiding forces per Quran, in fact, the guiding forces have to have God's chosen on top, and believers participate in guidance as far they hold on to God and his chosen.

Most of the Quran is about this, but like the proofs for God's existence and Oneness (both are proven together in their proofs), it flies over you. Like the many proofs for day of judgment, accounting, hell and paradise, and why disbelief is so condemned, everything flies past you. You choose to read God's words in a shallow way.
Oh yeah. I forgot about your theory that all of Islam has been corrupted by black magic and you are the only one immune to it.
Goodbye.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
The term "purification" is indicative of having important place among all people.
. No, in that context it is clearly about sex. Ibn Abbas (who is, by his own admission, "firm in knowledge") confirms that.

"And when said the Angels, "O Maryam! Indeed, Allah (has) chosen you and purified you and chosen you over (the) women (of) the worlds" 33:42
Verse 33:33 is giving same station as Mary, to the Household of the Prophet.
I would consider that we should understand verses based on the recorded traditions. As Muhammad Himself said:
"I leave you two weighty things, if you stick to both you will never go astray after me: the Book of Allah and my progeny." "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to both of them, you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is, my Ahl al-Bayt."
So, just as Mary has a special and holy place in Christianity, the Household of Muhammad has same stations in Quran.
There's that irrational leap of logic again.
You jump from "Muhammad's wives had a special place in Muslim society" (a completely reasonable concept) to "That means that only 12 specific people can interpret the Quran".
How do you do it!

According to Hadithes the Household is a reference to Ali, Hassan, Hussein, Fatima and the Imams after them.
Perhaps, but there is nothing to suggest that only "the household" can interpret the Quran.

"The likeness of the people of my house is the ship of Noah: Whoever boards it is safe and whoever abandons it is drowned."[45][46][6] Also ascribed to Muhammad is the hadith, "By Him in Whose Hand is my soul, faith will never enter a person's heart until he loves them [Muhammad's family] for the sake of God and for the fact that they are my kin."[46]
From all these traditions, it is obvious, the term :Household: has to do with farther guidance in addition to Quran, which is required in order to have a true Faith.
So you are necessarily claiming that any and every member of Muhammad's household can correctly interpret the Quran? Even the women? So far more than just 12.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
The term "purification" is indicative of having important place among all people.

In the same Surrah:


"And when said the Angels, "O Maryam! Indeed, Allah (has) chosen you and purified you and chosen you over (the) women (of) the worlds" 33:42

Verse 33:33 is giving same station as Mary, to the Household of the Prophet.

I would consider that we should understand verses based on the recorded traditions. As Muhammad Himself said:

"I leave you two weighty things, if you stick to both you will never go astray after me: the Book of Allah and my progeny." "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to both of them, you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is, my Ahl al-Bayt."


So, just as Mary has a special and holy place in Christianity, the Household of Muhammad has same stations in Quran.
According to Hadithes the Household is a reference to Ali, Hassan, Hussein, Fatima and the Imams after them.


"The likeness of the people of my house is the ship of Noah: Whoever boards it is safe and whoever abandons it is drowned."[45][46][6] Also ascribed to Muhammad is the hadith, "By Him in Whose Hand is my soul, faith will never enter a person's heart until he loves them [Muhammad's family] for the sake of God and for the fact that they are my kin."[46]

From all these traditions, it is obvious, the term :Household: has to do with farther guidance in addition to Quran, which is required in order to have a true Faith.

Just to clarify and be fair, the last statement in 33:33 switches from the feminine to the masculine, which means it is addressing all of Mohamed's household - including the males. What does not change is the subject matter, which is purification of the soul. There is still nothing there to facilitate the leap to claiming this proves anything about the 12 imams and succession.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Just to clarify and be fair, the last statement in 33:33 switches from the feminine to the masculine, which means it is addressing all of Mohamed's household - including the males. What does not change is the subject matter, which is purification of the soul. There is still nothing there to facilitate the leap to claiming this proves anything about the 12 imams and succession.

Why is God talking to Mohammad's (s) wives? Is it due to their own merit or who they married to? I think the emphasis it's on the latter. So the subject in a way is about how wives of a holy chosen person by God should be extra careful. Do you disagree?

Now Ali (a), Fatima (a), Hassan (a) and Hussain (a), if special and chosen like Mohammad (s), can be brought here to emphasize their normal type family members (not special higher meaning) should be extra careful as well.

The line "God only desires.... " can be saying to the wives, you are married to a completely purified person from God and that's he is never at fault, and so be extra careful. He is completely and intensely pure, and so take care on how you address him, talk to him.

Now a similar tone happens:

لَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْهِنَّ فِي آبَائِهِنَّ وَلَا أَبْنَائِهِنَّ وَلَا إِخْوَانِهِنَّ وَلَا أَبْنَاءِ إِخْوَانِهِنَّ وَلَا أَبْنَاءِ أَخَوَاتِهِنَّ وَلَا نِسَائِهِنَّ وَلَا مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُنَّ ۗ وَاتَّقِينَ اللَّهَ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدًا | There is no sin on them [in socializing freely] with their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or the sons of their sisters, or their own womenfolk, or what their oaths hold authority over And Be wary of Allah. Indeed Allah is witness to all things. | Al-Ahzaab : 55

You may not know, but the bold is feminine plural and hence addressed at the wives of the Prophet (s). The next verse is:

إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَمَلَائِكَتَهُ يُصَلُّونَ عَلَى النَّبِيِّ ۚ يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا صَلُّوا عَلَيْهِ وَسَلِّمُوا تَسْلِيمًا | Indeed Allah and His angels bless the Prophet; O you who have faith! Invoke blessings on him and invoke Peace upon him in a worthy manner. | Al-Ahzaab : 56

So we see, that although God is addressing believers in 33:56, there also a special application to the wives 33:55 in that they have to be very careful regarding God because of who they are married to.

Now what is interesting is that when 33:56 was revealed, even according to Sunni hadiths, the Prophet (s) taught to bless his family along with himself, in which all Muslims do in Salah. That is we bless Mohammad (s) and the family of Mohammad (s).

33:33 can be also saying to the wives you are married to someone who God desires to keep nothing away from blessings, but rather, all he wishes to keep away from his holy soul, is uncleanness and that God purifies him a complete purification. The only thing is that Ali (a), Fatima (a), Hassan (a) and Hussain (a) are included in that exaltation by God over others.

Now which one of these is the proper meaning. Sunni and Shiite hadiths both have 33:33 (the 2nd part) revealed for Ali (a), Fatima (a), Hassan (a) and Hussain (a). Notice, that Zainab (a) also a daughter of Ali (a) and Fatima (a) was never included in the event despite being born at that time.

Why is that the case?

Same with Mubahila event, Zainab (a) who is honorable lady and a hero, is not taken, to that event. This is because she is a high believer, she is not part of the chosen household, she is from the household much like Salman (a) is from Ahlulbayt (a) but not an actual member of the holy household.

There's more to it. Back up a little where else do wives and relatives (chosen) appear in this Surah?

Go to verse 33:6, we see the Prophet (s) is emphasized to have a priority right of authority over believers then they over themselves, and then it mentions "and his wives are their mothers", so we see wives are emphasized not due to their own merit, but who they are married to. But the verse then says "and the possessors of blood/family relationship, some of their are AWLA then others....".

Now Sunnis take that and say this about believers blood/family, but the context is clear, it's about Welayat of the Prophet, and so the Awliyakum here is about that Welayat mentioned in start of the verse, and so to not fragment the verses into many irrelevant to each other subjects. The proper way to see it is that it's saying, and his holy family also have this authority with some of them preceding others in taking it (ie. Ali (a) first, then Hassan (a), then Hussain (a), etc)....

So a better translation of what it says is: "only that you should towards your Masters/Authorities (ie. those who have more authority over believers then themselves) goodness indeed this written in the book".

The next verse then emphasizes on the covenant of all Prophets (a) - and the next verse "that truthful maybe asked about their truthfulness" and disbelievers and hypocrites to be punished.

Now 33:33 in light of that, can be going back to 33:6. The wives are emphasized as our mothers, but are they special on their own merit or are they emphasized because they are married to Prophet (s)? It seems the way they are told to decide between Dunya or God/his Messenger/Next world, is that, they are not chosen like Sarah (a) (wife of Ibrahim (a)). On the other hand, the "Ulul-Arham" (relatives of the Prophet (s)) meant in 33:6, are chosen to be of the household of Prophet (s) because of the pre-world covenant and they were chosen by God. They are special.

Now in the Sunnah (hadiths) we find:

33:6 is about leadership of the family of Mohammad (s), and they are Ulul-Arham (I will share hadiths).
33:33 (the 2nd part) is revealed about five souls at that time, and Zainab (a) who is a daughter of Ali (a) and Fatima (a) is not included.
33:56 - the proper way to bless Mohammad (s) is to bless his family with him.

33:33 and 33:55-56 are similar, in that they tell the wives that Prophet (s) is extra special.

Another point since there is two ways to recite 33:33, we have to revert to what is more clear in Quran. The question, per Quran, is there a holy chosen family. If you recall the reward verses 42:23, 25:57, etc, it's obvious the family of Mohammad (s) is chosen.

If you recall and connect 4:54 with 4:59, it's obvious the family of Mohammad (s) are the leaders of authority from God in this nation, just like the holy family of Abraham (a) were given a great authority, and so it's telling us not to envy our leaders and the holy family of our time, and how irrational it is to believe in past chosen families like the family of Abraham (a) and honor them, but deny it the current household of guidance.

So this way, we can say 33:33 in itself has many possible ways of reading. However, when we revert to clear parts of Quran that show the household of Mohammad (s) to be special (like 42:23), 33:33 (the latter part) then is to be read with that kept in mind.

I wanted to also discuss the double purification. Per Quran, God attributes purity to who he pleases (shows who is pure) and it's not for people to do so. But regarding Mariam (a), we don't see this double emphasis. Why, because there is levels of purity. The Prophets (s) themselves differ in rank with respect to how holy and intensely pure they are.

There is a line in Saheefa Sajjadiya to bless Angels that are chosen by God (the du'a about Angels) with a blessing that will increase their purity on top of their purity.

Double word in Arabic, like "daka daka", means it takes a very intense and full out and even extra form of that.

No matter who they are married to, I don't think God wishes to raise wives of Prophet (s) above the purity of Mariam (a) and Prophets (a) who he has chosen above them.

We see in Quran, believers are purified, the word of Taqwa or tranquility they receive it. The Satanic filth he removes. And that God wishes through Salah and rituals of connection to God, to purify believers.

But he never uses this double purification expression. We find this double meaning, for day of judgment, "shaking a shaking", meaning there is no shaking like it. It's the most severest form of it.

So Mohammad's (s) family have most intense form of purification.

This is something you are not familiar because double words in English are said to be grammar wise wrong or it's not considered eloquent to double emphasize. However, in Arabic, the usage has this meaning. It's not just a complete form of it, it's the ultimate of it.

So Ahlulbayt (a) of the ultimate form of purity. We can be pure, but God doesn't intend we reach higher status in purity then Mariam (a), Jesus (a) etc.

Anyways there is a lot covered in this post. Let me know what you think of each point and if you have to do separate posts for each point, that's fine. It was a bit long I apologize.
 
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Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Oh yeah. I forgot about your theory that all of Islam has been corrupted by black magic and you are the only one immune to it.
Goodbye.

If you are dealing with Islam and Quran, it talks about sorcery with respect to guidance, Quran, and Sunnah, for a reason. It's not only guidance, but other issues (like who attracted to, fall in love with, or begin to hate from family members or divorces etc) The last two Surahs of Quran are also about this. The 2nd last Surah emphasized on knots blown upon, and locks of the heart and mind, take place by Satanic forces.

Magic is a huge topic in Quran. It's part of faith in the unseen to believe both the light (unseen) and the darkness (unseen) in the interior world of humans. Darkness and dark magic go together per Quran.

Misguidance of majority always happened time and time again, despite God's revelations. In Surah Yaseen, there was one believer in the city. That's it. He lived in the furthest part of the city, a stranger, an outlier.

This is not odd. I don't think too much of myself. I am person with madness, still got to kick start my career (one year left in Computer science degree 4 year program), not married, etc, but I do appreciate God's favors upon me in that he has helped me see beyond the knots blown upon and taught me ways to unbind the locks upon Quran so that I can perceive beyond the falsehood from Iblis and break the dark sorcery.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Just to clarify and be fair, the last statement in 33:33 switches from the feminine to the masculine, which means it is addressing all of Mohamed's household - including the males. What does not change is the subject matter, which is purification of the soul. There is still nothing there to facilitate the leap to claiming this proves anything about the 12 imams and succession.

Sunni scholar Ibn Hajjar argued, that it's not simply the switch to plural masculine (which can include wives) that shows it's ONLY about Ahlul-Kisa (Mohamad (s), Ali (a), Fatima (a), Hassan (a) and Hussain (a)), but because of the turning to female plural after (33:34), that the particular line "God only desires to..." doesn't include the wives. This is easy to understand. If all of members of normal family are addressed including wives, there is no need to switch back to plural female in 33:34. They too should remember of the book, the wisdom, and have been included in the emphasis if this is the case. But it switches back to plural female.

This point by Ibn Hajjar I don't think has been addressed by scholars who include the wives. It always goes ignored and they aren't attentive to his emphasizing on the switch back to plural female AFTER (in 33:34).

Now you might wonder, why does Ibn Hajjar believe this and yet be Sunni. Well majority of Sunnis at a point believed in Ahlulbayt in a different sense. They believe they were special while believing Abu Bakr and Umar were good companions who took political office. However majority of Sunnis use to be Sufi and put Ahlulbayt on a higher pedestedal.

It's part of the colonialism to support extreme hate towards Ahlulbayt (a). Wahabism/Salafism and it's ugly head was supported by British for a reason.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
. No, in that context it is clearly about sex. Ibn Abbas (who is, by his own admission, "firm in knowledge") confirms that.

There's that irrational leap of logic again.
You jump from "Muhammad's wives had a special place in Muslim society" (a completely reasonable concept) to "That means that only 12 specific people can interpret the Quran".
How do you do it!

Perhaps, but there is nothing to suggest that only "the household" can interpret the Quran.

So you are necessarily claiming that any and every member of Muhammad's household can correctly interpret the Quran? Even the women? So far more than just 12.
There is always disagreement about interpretation of the Quran. This is why, the right way of knowing what a verse is about, it to see how Muhammad had interpreted the verse. There are many Hadithes from Muhammad that only the 12 Imams and Fatimah are the pure ones, in a sense that they are the only ones who are sinless, and were thus worthy to receive knowledge of the Book.
The other positions that includes other people as well-grounded in knowledge is not supported by any Hadith from Muhammad.
When Muhammad has authored the Quran, He is the one who knows best what He meant by those verses. And when He said, the 12 Imams are the only pure ones in Hadithes, anyone who wants to follow Islam, would not deviate from Muhammad's Hadithes and interpretations.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Just to clarify and be fair, the last statement in 33:33 switches from the feminine to the masculine, which means it is addressing all of Mohamed's household - including the males. What does not change is the subject matter, which is purification of the soul. There is still nothing there to facilitate the leap to claiming this proves anything about the 12 imams and succession.
Either way, there are many Hadithes of Muhammad that the pure ones are only specific members, including Ali, Hassan, Hussein, Fatima. But even according to Aisha, a wife of Muhammad, she was not included as one of the pure ones.

Anyways, as far as we are talking about OP, in my view, although Quran is not always clear, but with Hadithes it becomes clear, as long as we stick with them.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Either way, there are many Hadithes of Muhammad that the pure ones are only specific members, including Ali, Hassan, Hussein, Fatima. But even according to Aisha, a wife of Muhammad, she was not included as one of the pure ones.

Anyways, as far as we are talking about OP, in my view, although Quran is not always clear, but with Hadithes it becomes clear, as long as we stick with them.

Right. and that's my whole point. Your god did such a crap job of getting his wishes across that it took extra explanation to clear up his mess.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Why is God talking to Mohammad's (s) wives?

That's the easiest question you've asked so far. As you know, I believe Mohamed authored the Qur'an based on what he needed people to believe on any given day, and this is a perfect example. One of his wives probably smiled a little too much as someone, so it became time to once again slip into the phonebooth and emerge as SuperGod. Time to nip that flirtation in the bud with a reminder that Allah would double her punishment if she did anything untoward.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Well, how about your god? Lolll

Three things:

1. You didn't address my comment (because my logic is solid).
2. Whataboutism is a transparent deflection used in lieu of having an answer.
3. I don't have a god.

You simply can't deny that the Qur'an is an utterly inadequate mess.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Right. and that's my whole point. Your god did such a crap job of getting his wishes across that it took extra explanation to clear up his mess.
My experience with Quran, it's a very clear book, but the clarity comes when you fear God and fight off the arms of Iblis and his forces.

Take the verse "Then we inherited the book to those who we chosen from our servants so of them...", the sorcery of Iblis says "them" refers to chosen servants and not servants. But back it up, look at the preceding verse...."..and God with respect to his servants is aware seeing", so the emphasis is on servants, and so of them refers to servants. The verse before says Mohammad (s) has been revealed the book from God with truth, and emphasizes God with respect to his servants is aware seeing. Then talks about "chosen" ones after him, but then again emphasizes with respect to his servants who he is aware seeing of, that there is three categories, there is oppressor to oneself (evil), middle course (good), then there is those who race ahead of all in good deeds, the best in good deeds is obviously who God chooses from.

Now to me, this should be clear by language context rules. It's not only due to the sorcery of Iblis that mind F***S humanity ability to perceive speech as we would each others.

There is all sorts of these examples that this happens in the Quran. It's not normal.

When you fear God and perceive Iblis and his magic, you can begin to fend it off. The hadiths provide ways to reflect over Quran, that makes what should be clear, clear, and gives us insights to defeat Iblis magic.

I'm saying, the case here, is the same. 33:34 makes it obvious wives are not addressed as Ahlulbayt and Ahlulbayt is not a normal concept of family. The change after to plural feminine proves that beyond doubt as do other points I mentioned.

The reason why an explanation is needed, is not because, it's not clear through language context rules, it's because sorcery makes us unable to perceive the clear and bright signs of the Quran and flow by language.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That's the easiest question you've asked so far. As you know, I believe Mohamed authored the Qur'an based on what he needed people to believe on any given day, and this is a perfect example. One of his wives probably smiled a little too much as someone, so it became time to once again slip into the phonebooth and emerge as SuperGod. Time to nip that flirtation in the bud with a reminder that Allah would double her punishment if she did anything untoward.

This is understandable. When I talk about God, I mean, if God revealed it (this scenario), what do you think would be the reason. For example, if we were talking about game of thrones, we can talk about dragons. I understand you don't believe in God and Mohammad (s).

However, what I said makes sense from the perspective that God did reveal it. Wives are not special on own merit, but are addressed to fear God with who they are married to. Even say Mohammad (s) made it up, it would make more sense still that he is consistent to the concept of Ahlulbayt in Quran and that the emphasis he is part of chosen purified household and so wives got to fear God with respect to him and that is complete ultimately pure and to fear God with respect to that.
 

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Three things:

1. You didn't address my comment (because my logic is solid).
2. Whataboutism is a transparent deflection used in lieu of having an answer.
3. I don't have a god.

You simply can't deny that the Qur'an is an utterly inadequate mess.

Have you considered that once upon a time, when I was (1) hasty (2) didn't make effort to break magic of Iblis pertaining to Quran (3) didn't take fight for the soul seriously, the Quran appeared to me as a mess too?

When you fear God and tranquil your mind and heart, the Quran unbinds itself from influence of Satan, and unravels the darkness attributed to it. It clarifies it's signs, but the hadiths of Ahlulbayt (a) help and are needed to see this.

The Quran and Sunnah go together, Quran and Ahlulbayt can't be seperated.

I understand how Quran appears to a person who doesn't see God nor his light nor aware of Ahlulbayt (a) position nor believes in the unseen. Of course, to you it's a mess. If you perceived it's proofs for God and his light, you wouldn't be atheist.
 
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