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Allah's failure to communicate.

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
So basically - "The Quran is a clear and complete guide, but it is not clear and isn't complete".
It is complete for its own assigned period:

"...For every period there is a Book revealed. God abrogates or confirms what He pleases; with Him is the source of all commandments " 13:38-39



Allah says he created mankind only to worship him.
If any of mankind does not worship him, his creation is imperfect.
If Allah can fail like that, how can he be god?

The term "created", in some verses, such as the one you are referring is not about creation of whole humanity. It is about creation of community of Believers:

"(Allah) Most Gracious! Taught the Qur’ān, Created man" 55:1-3

Notice the chronological order of verses. First Quran is taught, then man is created.
Here, creation of Muslims, is intended, through Revelation of Quran, and by teaching Quran. It is the same idea of creating a new man, in the Bible.


"But ˹continue to˺ remind. For certainly reminders benefit the believers.
I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me" 51:55-56


Here also, "I have created Jinns and men to worship Me", is an allusion to the community of Believers, so, They stay on the Right path.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
From Al-Kafi (Hadith collections book). These Hadithes are with regards to verse 3:7, speaking of who are Well-grounded in knowledge:

‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Kathir narrated from abu ‘bdallah (a.s.) who has said the following. "People well-grounded in Knowledge stands for Amir al-Mu’minin Ali (a.s.) and the Imams after him."
Ibn Kathir's tafsir on 3:7 does not mention Ali or any subsequent Imams. You will need to provide a reference for that quote.

Abu Basir narrated from abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) who has said the following. "We are the people well-grounded in knowledge and we are the ones who know how to interpret it."
I claim I am one as well. Not difficult.

God has been sending Prophets and Messengers to create human civilization by teaching and guiding humanity. But it is a progressive revelation, meaning, whenever humanity has developed more capacity to understand, and have become ready to know more, then God sends another Messenger with a new guidance to teach more.
Specifically in Islam, the next guidance after Muhammad is the Mahdi, aka the Qaim.
So you are saying that every religion and every claim by every prophet is true and from god?
That doesn't make sense because they are all somewhat or completely different to and in conflict with Islam.

Because in this world, different creatures are needed. Just as soil, Stone, wood, different animals are needed, in the world of humanity different people are needed. This is why God does not give the same understanding and knowledge to everyone.
So he created mankind only so we could worship him. Then he deliberately prevents most people from worshiping him.
The more you try to explain it, the more ridiculous it becomes. That is what happened when you uncritically accept platitudes that confirm your bias, rather than following where reason, logic and evidence lead

There is a good story in the Bible too. Where the owner of the vineyard gives different wages. To some more to some less.
If the people are doing the same job, then that is unfair an unjust. Why would you see that as something admirable?

It does seem very unlikely.
Sometimes, when something looks like a duck and sounds like a duck - it's because it is a duck.

Some of The verses of Quran can only be interpreted by those who are well-grounded in knowledge.
There have been many such people (either claimed or acknowledged). Most of them do not see the "12 imams" interpretation.

Such verses talking about 12 Imams, were revealed symbolically, and then Muhammad and Imams provided their interpretation. If one was to follow the Quran, he needs to see how Muhamamd and Imams interpreted the verses, rather than using how own imagination.
So all you are saying is that you accept the minority opinion on the issue, and reject the majority.
That's all well and good, but I don't see on what basis you claim your position is correct while all the others are wrong. After all, people "well-grounded in knowledge" claim you are wrong, so who are we to believe?
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
It is complete for its own assigned period:

"...For every period there is a Book revealed. God abrogates or confirms what He pleases; with Him is the source of all commandments " 13:38-39
So the Quran is only for 7th century Arabs, not for all people and all times.
I would agree with you there.

The term "created", in some verses, such as the one you are referring is not about creation of whole humanity. It is about creation of community of Believers:
No it isn't. The word used refers to making in general. There are different words used when referring to just believers.

"And I did not create the jinn and mankind except that they may worship Me: the fact that disbelievers do not worship [God] does not contradict this [statement], since a purpose does not have to be realised [in an act, for it to be valid], as when you may say: ‘I sharpened this pencil in order to write with it’, even though you might not actually write with it." - Al Jalalayn

"The meaning of this Ayah (51:56) is that, Allah the Exalted, the Blessed created the creatures so that they worship Him Alone without partners. Those who obey Him will be rewarded with the best rewards, while those who disobey Him will receive the worst punishment from Him." - Ibn Kathir

Bothmen renowned for being well-grounded in knowledge.

"(Allah) Most Gracious! Taught the Qur’ān, Created man" 55:1-3
Notice the chronological order of verses. First Quran is taught, then man is created.
Here, creation of Muslims, is intended, through Revelation of Quran, and by teaching Quran. It is the same idea of creating a new man, in the Bible.
You relly don't think these arguments through, do you.
If you are claiming that the order of things in that passage denote the order of their creation, than after the Quran and after Muslims, Allah created the sun and moon.

Probably best to stop making up your own interpretations and stick to those form reputable scholars "well-grounded in knowledge", eh?
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
So the Quran is only for 7th century Arabs, not for all people and all times.
I would agree with you there.

No it isn't. The word used refers to making in general. There are different words used when referring to just believers.

"And I did not create the jinn and mankind except that they may worship Me: the fact that disbelievers do not worship [God] does not contradict this [statement], since a purpose does not have to be realised [in an act, for it to be valid], as when you may say: ‘I sharpened this pencil in order to write with it’, even though you might not actually write with it." - Al Jalalayn

"The meaning of this Ayah (51:56) is that, Allah the Exalted, the Blessed created the creatures so that they worship Him Alone without partners. Those who obey Him will be rewarded with the best rewards, while those who disobey Him will receive the worst punishment from Him." - Ibn Kathir

Bothmen renowned for being well-grounded in knowledge.

You relly don't think these arguments through, do you.
If you are claiming that the order of things in that passage denote the order of their creation, than after the Quran and after Muslims, Allah created the sun and moon.

Probably best to stop making up your own interpretations and stick to those form reputable scholars "well-grounded in knowledge", eh?

"The sun and the moon are in a reckoning"
55:5

These are symbolic verses. No one knows their interpretation except God, and those who are well-grounded in knowledge.

The correct translation of this verse is, the Sun and the Moon are accountable. The moon and the sun, is an allusion to the Religion leaders, in this verse. There is a Hadith from an Imam that says this. In another word, this verse I not talking about the physical sun and moon in the sky, but these words are symbolic here, and are allusions to the Religious leaders of the time, when they oppose the new Revelation. There are the stars that are fallen. A term to indicate End of Time, which is end of the period assigned to a Book of God and His people. The Quran was assigned for a period of 1000 years, as it is said in Quran and also Hadithes. After that, a new Revelation, a new people was to be created.
 
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InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Ibn Kathir's tafsir on 3:7 does not mention Ali or any subsequent Imams. You will need to provide a reference for that quote.
There are many Hadithes that does mention Ali and subsequent Imams.
Even in Sunni, there are Hadithes about Imam Ali, and at least a Hadith about 12 successors after Muhammad.

I claim I am one as well. Not difficult.
You can claim. But after more than a 1000 years, no body claimed except for the Shia Imams, who appeared right after Muhammad.
Their 12th one, was to appear 1000 years after the 11th one. The Bab, appeared exactly 1000 years after death of the 11th Imam, and proclaimed He is the promised Mahdi.




So you are saying that every religion and every claim by every prophet is true and from god?
No, I didn't say that. That would require investigating that Prophet, His Book, and signs.

That doesn't make sense because they are all somewhat or completely different to and in conflict with Islam.
Which ones is in conflict with Islam?


So he created mankind only so we could worship him. Then he deliberately prevents most people from worshiping him.
The more you try to explain it, the more ridiculous it becomes. That is what happened when you uncritically accept platitudes that confirm your bias, rather than following where reason, logic and evidence lead
I am saying that, when He said in Quran that He created men to serve only God, He is talking about creation of the believers. Not necessarily every human being.

In another verse, He said if they turned back (if they fail to serve God), He will replace them with another creation (a new people, or a new community of Believers).


“Seest thou not that Allah created the heavens and the earth in Truth? If He so will, He can remove you and put (in your place) a new creation?" 14:19

Here creation of heavens and earth, is not the physical creation. These are symbols. Heavens is a symbolic term meaning Religions of God. It is about spiritual creation of mankind through successive revelations. At the end of 6000 years, then a new creation was to come (a new Revelation, and replacing Muslims with another community of Believers).


If the people are doing the same job, then that is unfair an unjust. Why would you see that as something admirable?
If He gives a fair wage, to one people, but He gives more to others, it is not unfair. He just wants to give to some more.
I understand that we would complain to God, why you give them more.

Sometimes, when something looks like a duck and sounds like a duck - it's because it is a duck.
True. Usually yes. But for example the earth looks flat, not round. Most people in the past ages, believed it is flat.

There have been many such people (either claimed or acknowledged). Most of them do not see the "12 imams" interpretation.

So all you are saying is that you accept the minority opinion on the issue, and reject the majority.
That's all well and good, but I don't see on what basis you claim your position is correct while all the others are wrong. After all, people "well-grounded in knowledge" claim you are wrong, so who are we to believe?

I don't think the majority is always right. Sometimes a minority could be right. Like in the past almost everyone believe the earth is flat. But, beside the minority or majority, I see, the Imams had knowledge of hidden meanings of the Quran. They did not take everything literally, like the average person does, but they explained the meaning of the symbols. That tells me, they were truly well-grounded in knowledge.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

4:59 seen in it's proper context is about the leaders of Guidance that God appoints. If isolated, then yes, multiple meanings can be given,

In it's proper context it's obviously
(1) Comparing them to the holy family of Abraham (4:54)
(2) Linking belief in them to belief in God and his Signs (4:55-56)
(3) Contrasting the claim of Jewish and Christian clergy to Authority with that of Divinely chosen type (4:53)
(4) It emphasizes God attributes purity to who he wishes while it's not for people to do so - and this is what Jewish and Christian Clergy were doing, attributing a higher purity or righteousness to themselves over the population or while people are unknown to be good, they made themselves known to be good in 4:49. To be given authority by God like the family of Abraham, God displays you are pure and have right to be obeyed and should be obeyed. This is not for normal people to claim.

The context leading up to it warns not to treat the family of Mohammad (s) with envy, but rather to believe in their authority and submit to it.

The "from you" in 4:59 is obviously saying, that, we too been given possessors of the authority, and to obey them along with obeying God.

The verse 4:58 is saying it's God sacred essence that commands these holy souls that when they rule amidst the people, that they do so by justice, and it's God who commands their hoy souls and admonishes them by his favor, and so obedience to their justice is obedience to God's light and God.

4:83 shows something important. All matters of safety and fear are to be referred to them. All affairs of Islam are necessarily included in that, since, they pertain to fear and safety of the next world. What further is manifested, is that Islam covers all social and political aspects of fear and safety concerning lives in this world. The Possessors of the Authority are to be referred to in all aspects of Islam and can teach and judge and assess properly pertaining to all social and political affairs as well (which is included in Islam).

There is a doubt that Sunnis puts, that Ulil-Amr should be mentioned in the referral but the issue is what about Imam Mahdi (a) who goes to Ghayba and is till one of Ulil-Amr?

As I said before in other threads if disputes occur, the Ulil-Amr would each in their time become a Messenger that manifests and clarifies the truth. Thus instead of "Wali-Amr" or "Dul-Amri" or "Ulul-Amr", it makes sense to say if disputes occur, to refer to God and the Messenger, and that it's implicit that Ulil-Amr would become Messengers.

There is no more Anbiya after Mohammad (s), that is no to channel revelation in a form of sign/book from God to humanity, but there are Messengers.

Imam Mahdi (a) will becoming back as a Messenger as well but he won't bringing a new revelation, he will be reviving Quran so that the Quran appears as if a whole new book.

This is "one tree" among many trees. Most of Quran is about the wisdom of appointing Imams (a) in succession.

Of course, if society didn't dispute and submitted to God's rope, then Messengers would not be needed, and Ulil-Amr would not need to become Messengers but would remain leaders of guidance and kings to obeyed by God's permission.
 
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Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

4:59 with context, is as clear as it can get. It can't get any clearer. So why do people not see it. I've said it before, when it comes to Quran, people take God's words out of their place as if context rules in language don't apply.

This shows, that it's not due to Quran being unclear, but something else going on. The Quran shows the sorcery of Iblis prevents and locks people from perceiving the wisdom and reflecting over the clear signs and insights of Quran.

The way to beat that it so soften one's hearts. We see the Jacob (a) has a soft heart for the injustice that fell upon Joseph (a) and that is grief is a reflective knowledge that makes him superior to others.

Quran expresses God's grief "O intense regret/grief over my servants, there doesn't come to them a Messenger except regarding him they would mock" in Surah Yaseen.

Jacob (a) is grieving for whole of humanity through Yusuf (a). Yusuf (a) is God's choice and so people turning away from God's choice is turning away from God's path.

In a verse it says to Mohammad (s) "We know you are grieved by what they say, for they do not (in reality) deny you but rather the wicked reject God's signs"

This means it's not personal, and you are not grieving over yourself as a person, but rather concern is because you are God's sign, same with Jacob (a), it was Yusuf (a) as a sign from God that caused his intense grief.

Imam Hussain (a) and injustice that befell him, it's about God and his signs and justice that we believe God's rope would bring.

We grieve humanity going astray regarding God's rope. Imam Hussain (a) has a high station, he and his companions lose nothing, they gained everything through martyrdom.

But the state of Islam is in shambles and the light is not as bright as it should be these days because of the oppression of Gog and Magog towards the family of the reminder.

Try to see that the Quran talks about God's chosen all over for a reason. It also emphasizes on the love in family of Mohammad (s) like in 42:23 in emphasis of God's Welayat on his creation.

There are many verses about family of Mohammad (s) in Quran. And the verses about past chosen Ahlulbayts is all giving context to those.
 
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KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
"The sun and the moon are in a reckoning"
55:5

These are symbolic verses. No one knows their interpretation except God, and those who are well-grounded in knowledge.

The correct translation of this verse is, the Sun and the Moon are accountable. The moon and the sun, is an allusion to the Religion leaders, in this verse. There is a Hadith from an Imam that says this. In another word, this verse I not talking about the physical sun and moon in the sky, but these words are symbolic here, and are allusions to the Religious leaders of the time, when they oppose the new Revelation. There are the stars that are fallen. A term to indicate End of Time, which is end of the period assigned to a Book of God and His people. The Quran was assigned for a period of 1000 years, as it is said in Quran and also Hadithes. After that, a new Revelation, a new people was to be created.
And yet scholars who're well-grounded in knowledge, like Ibn Abbas, Al Jalalayn, Ibn Kathir and ala Maududi all state that the verse is referring to the motion of the astronomical bodies.
Once again, you are showing that all this is just you (someone who is not well-grounded in knowledge) making stuff up.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
And yet scholars who're well-grounded in knowledge, like Ibn Abbas, Al Jalalayn, Ibn Kathir and ala Maududi all state that the verse is referring to the motion of the astronomical bodies.
Once again, you are showing that all this is just you (someone who is not well-grounded in knowledge) making stuff up.
The scholars you are referring did not claim to be well-grounded in knowledge.
And the fact that they did not recognize these verses are not literal, shows they do not know interpretation of symbolic verses nor they recognize these verses.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
The scholars you are referring did not claim to be well-grounded in knowledge.
And the fact that they did not recognize these verses are not literal, shows they do not know interpretation of symbolic verses nor they recognize these verses.
So your defence is that some of the most renowned, respected, authoritative scholars in the history of Islam are not "well grounded in knowledge", but you are?

Also classic question begging. It's like saying that because a teacher doesn't recognise that 2+2=5, they are therefore not a good teacher. :tearsofjoy:
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
So your defence is that some of the most renowned, respected, authoritative scholars in the history of Islam are not "well grounded in knowledge", but you are?

Also classic question begging. It's like saying that because a teacher doesn't recognise that 2+2=5, they are therefore not a good teacher. :tearsofjoy:
That's not what I said.
I am saying, if you consider the possibility that the Quran is really the word of God, then God in Quran says, He has given knowledge of the Book and its interpretation to only a certain people, known as Well-grounded in knowledge.
Now, these people who are given knowledge, who were inspired by God, would have announced to people, that they are the Ones, God has inspired, so, they would be known to people, and people may know who to learn interpretation of the Quran. Among all people for the past 1400 years, only, the 12 Imams had announced that, They are the Ones God referred as the Well-grounded in knowledge. So, when people want to know interpretation on the Quran, they only learn from the divinely appointed Imams the correct interpretation.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
t
So your defence is that some of the most renowned, respected, authoritative scholars in the history of Islam are not "well grounded in knowledge", but you are?

Also classic question begging. It's like saying that because a teacher doesn't recognise that 2+2=5, they are therefore not a good teacher. :tearsofjoy:

They didn't claim they were. This is your own invention.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
That's not what I said.
I am saying, if you consider the possibility that the Quran is really the word of God, then God in Quran says, He has given knowledge of the Book and its interpretation to only a certain people, known as Well-grounded in knowledge.
*sigh*
All you are doing is saying that you favour certain scholars and reject the rest.

Now, these people who are given knowledge, who were inspired by God, would have announced to people, that they are the Ones, God has inspired, so, they would be known to people, and people may know who to learn interpretation of the Quran. Among all people for the past 1400 years, only, the 12 Imams had announced that, They are the Ones God referred as the Well-grounded in knowledge.
1. They might not.
2. Renown scholars clearly consider themselves to knowledgable about the Quran. It's their job. They've spent most of their lives doing it.
3. How do you know the 12 imams weren't lying?

So, when people want to know interpretation on the Quran, they only learn from the divinely appointed Imams the correct interpretation.
Except the vast majority of Muslims and other interested in Islam do not consult them. They consult more authoritative, accepted, mainstream scholars.

It is interesting though that your "correct interpretation" requires massive leaps of reasoning and logical gymnastics, basically making up content, while the "false" ones make far more sense in context of time, place, ideology, and the actual words used in the Quran.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
t
They didn't claim they were. This is your own invention.
The scholars I mentioned are clearly extremely knowledgable about the Quran and other aspects of Islam. I didn't say they claimed to be mentioned in the Quran. That kind of hubris is reserved for pompous agenda pushers.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The scholars I mentioned are clearly extremely knowledgable about the Quran and other aspects of Islam. I didn't say they claimed to be mentioned in the Quran. That kind of hubris is reserved for pompous agenda pushers.

They talking a lot about it and people following their popularity doesn't mean they are knowledgeable about either.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
*sigh*
All you are doing is saying that you favour certain scholars and reject the rest.

I am only presenting what the Quran is telling. It is not about me defending Imams. I don't even care to defend. I am just giving information.

I am saying, this is what Quran says. It says, God will explain its verses through Imams. I already quoted the verse for you. You are saying what about other scholars.
If you want to investigate Quran I suggest you follow its own instructions, and see where it takes you.
Where does in Quran or even Hadith it says, learn it from any scholars? It says, learn it from very specific chosen ones of God. In the Quran it makes allusion to Muhammad, and His family and Ali as the ones who are pure and given knowledge to interpret.

1. They might not.
If God have indeed appointed a certain people for explaining Quran, they would proclaim their duty given to them by God.

2. Renown scholars clearly consider themselves to knowledgable about the Quran. It's their job. They've spent most of their lives doing it.
Yes, they do. But they don't claim they are inspired by God. Quran gives much more importance to chosen Ones and Prophets when it comes to knowledge, because they receive knowledge from God unlike ordinary people who just study themselves.

Remember, 3:7 says, no one knows its interpretation except God and those who are well-grounded in knowledge (imams)



3. How do you know the 12 imams weren't lying?
How do we even know Muhammad was not lying or even there is a God?
I am saying, if we want to truly investigate the claim of Quran, let's follow its instruction and see where it gets us.

Except the vast majority of Muslims and other interested in Islam do not consult them. They consult more authoritative, accepted, mainstream scholars.
True.
Well, have you seen many Hadithes that says, the Majority of Muslims will end up is the Fire? Hadithes in Muslims sources!
Perhaps the Prophet knew the fate of its Religion!
I already quoted verses of Quran saying, Allah will replace them with another people.
Do you even read my posts?


It is interesting though that your "correct interpretation" requires massive leaps of reasoning and logical gymnastics, basically making up content, while the "false" ones make far more sense in context of time, place, ideology, and the actual words used in the Quran.
It only looks this way. As Quran says, no one knows its interpretation except God (3:7). Doesn't that tell us, there are things in the Quran, that one cannot possibly know it's hidden interpretations, and thus when we are told, we could not possibly guess, and that's why it looks like gymnastics?
See Surrah of Joseph. There is a reason for this Surrah. A Man saw in dream sever fat cows. But its interpretation was seven years of prosperity. Joseph saw 11 stars, the Sun and moon bow down to Him.
Do you know what was its interpretation?
In the same way, there are things in Quran that only God knows its meaning. This is what it claims. So, how do you know this is false?
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
They talking a lot about it and people following their popularity doesn't mean they are knowledgeable about either.
You can say that about anyone. Especially if what they say doesn't make sense or even correspond to the original text ;).
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
I am only presenting what the Quran is telling.
But you aren't. You are presenting far-fetched interpretations that have little to no relation to the words in the Quran, even when you try to claim it is all symbolism and metaphor.

I am saying, this is what Quran says. It says, God will explain its verses through Imams. I already quoted the verse for you.
It doesn't mention any specific people, only "those firm in knowledge".

You are saying what about other scholars.
If you want to investigate Quran I suggest you follow its own instructions, and see where it takes you.
Where does in Quran or even Hadith it says, learn it from any scholars? It says, learn it from very specific chosen ones of God.
No it doesn't. It says that those who are "firm in knowledge". It doesn't say anything about being "specially chosen by god".

You claim that anyone specially chosen by god to be firm in knowledge would claim that they were such. Ibn Abbas made that claim. In his tafsir of 3:7 he says that it refers to "Abdullah Ibn Salam and his fellow companions". Neither Ibn Abbas nor Ibn Salam mention your 12 imams. And neither does the Quran. You are just just trying to force post hoc rationalisation based on confirmation bias.

As Quran says, no one knows its interpretation except God (3:7).
And yet you have spent much time claiming that you know exactly what it means.

and that's why it looks like gymnastics?
Your attempted explanations do, because you keep contradicting yourself and making irrational claims.

See Surrah of Joseph. There is a reason for this Surrah. A Man saw in dream sever fat cows. But its interpretation was seven years of prosperity. Joseph saw 11 stars, the Sun and moon bow down to Him.
Do you know what was its interpretation?
In the same way, there are things in Quran that only God knows its meaning. This is what it claims. So, how do you know this is false?
So is it only god who knows the interpretations, or is it you as well. You need to make your mind up.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You can say that about anyone. Especially if what they say doesn't make sense or even correspond to the original text ;).

True. God guides to the truth per Quran and part of relying on him is to rely on his rope, and Quran is one part of the rope but revelations never came alone, they came with chosen ones who the revelations testify to.

Make that of what you will, but you won't even given the sent ones (mursaleen which is often translated as Messengers or Prophets but doesn't mean either but is of both and more) a chance to prove their case in the Quran and annul the sorcery, but rather, you went by power structures of popularity that has to do with history and injustice towards the good people and chosen ones that these evil people became popular as scholars and authorities in religion, that's up to you.

The affluent of ideas often misguiding forces per Quran, in fact, the guiding forces have to have God's chosen on top, and believers participate in guidance as far they hold on to God and his chosen.

Most of the Quran is about this, but like the proofs for God's existence and Oneness (both are proven together in their proofs), it flies over you. Like the many proofs for day of judgment, accounting, hell and paradise, and why disbelief is so condemned, everything flies past you. You choose to read God's words in a shallow way.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
But you aren't. You are presenting far-fetched interpretations that have little to no relation to the words in the Quran, even when you try to claim it is all symbolism and metaphor.

It doesn't mention any specific people, only "those firm in knowledge".

No it doesn't. It says that those who are "firm in knowledge". It doesn't say anything about being "specially chosen by god".

You claim that anyone specially chosen by god to be firm in knowledge would claim that they were such. Ibn Abbas made that claim. In his tafsir of 3:7 he says that it refers to "Abdullah Ibn Salam and his fellow companions". Neither Ibn Abbas nor Ibn Salam mention your 12 imams. And neither does the Quran. You are just just trying to force post hoc rationalisation based on confirmation bias.

And yet you have spent much time claiming that you know exactly what it means.

Your attempted explanations do, because you keep contradicting yourself and making irrational claims.

So is it only god who knows the interpretations, or is it you as well. You need to make your mind up.
Yes, the Quran does not name the twelve Imams explicitly, but If we read the Quran well, it gives hints who are the well grounded in knowledge.

The hints directs us to the Family of the Prophet, as follows step by step:



Verse 33:33 tells us, only the Household of the Prophet are purified:


"...God only wants to remove from you all that might be loathsome, O you members of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you to utmost purity" 33:33


Who are the members of Household of the Prophet?

Verse of Purification - Wikipedia


.
 
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