Allah Didn't Design us to Worship Him

[wizanda]

If Allah made us to worship him, why not have it in the design plan....?

People get overwhelming quantities of pleasure drugs in the brain called dopamine, anandamide, serotonin, etc.... That cause us to go seeking certain pleasurable stimuli.

So why isn't there euphoria from worshiping Allah, you'd think even to get more dopamine from it, then we get from porn, gambling, alcohol, etc, would induce people to be more inclined to worship, then to go the other way.

So clearly Allah didn't design us to worship him here, as the basic design of a human at a chemical level, implies we're here to enjoy ourselves.

 

[rocala]

So why isn't there euphoria from worshiping Allah, you'd think even to get more dopamine from it, then we get from porn, gambling, alcohol, etc, would induce people to be more inclined to worship, then to go the other way.

I would argue with this as you seem to equate pleasure with the most base activities. Secondly you seem to shy away from saying who put us here " to enjoy ourselves".

 

[wizanda]

I would argue with this as you seem to equate pleasure with the most base activities. Secondly you seem to shy away from saying who put us here " to enjoy ourselves".

I'm going on the ideology of Islam, that Allah put us here to worship him....It's not stated that Iblis, Shatan, etc, have power to change human design at its core.

 

[rocala]

wizanda thanks for elaborating. To the best of my knowledge nothing major has ever been created by a combined effort of addicts. I would think that any god who wants to be worshiped would keep them eating and reproducing. Round 1 to Allah.

 

[wizanda]

I would think that any god who wants to be worshiped would keep them eating and reproducing. Round 1 to Allah.

Fine, so Allah didn't create us to worship him; yet to get on with living. Round 2 to reasoning.

 

[Iti oj]

Best debate ever. *lurks*

 

[Augustus]

So why isn't there euphoria from worshiping Allah, you'd think even to get more dopamine from it, then we get from porn, gambling, alcohol, etc, would induce people to be more inclined to worship, then to go the other way.

If worshiping gave you the same effects as triple-dropping some E's or doing a big bag of smack then people would do it for the sheer enjoyment rather than for the actual love of God.

Worshipping should be a sacrifice rather than hedonism otherwise you would be stacked with freeloaders. Religious rituals require personal investment to make them effective.

 

[wizanda]

Worshipping should be a sacrifice

So Allah made it torture to worship him, that sounds a good plan for getting all the sadomasochists to love you.

then people would do it for the sheer enjoyment rather than for the actual love of God.

There is a valid point here, if it was extreme doses of neurotransmitters; yet when there is only the meditative state bringing any form of neuro-interactivity, clearly we weren't designed to worship.

Religious rituals require personal investment to make them effective.

Within each religious ritual we could dissect what makes it give feed back, and it wouldn't be Allah; we'd most likely find that the rituals themselves caused some form of neuro-activity.

So the statement 'Allah created us to worship him', isn't true, as the design dictates otherwise.

 

[EtuMalku]

So why isn't there euphoria from worshiping Allah

Do you have any evidence that some Muslims don't experience religious ecstasy?

 

[wizanda]

Do you have any evidence that some Muslims don't experience religious ecstasy?

Valid point, i don't have scientific data to present on neuro-activity of people doing the Haj for example; yet then after we collected it, and compared the brains of people completing a marathon, we'd most likely have similar stats.

Or on performing prayer, compared to Buddhist meditations, both would create harmonious brainwave results....

Yet you will have to wait a while for us to collect all the data to compare or we can just speculate for now, based on what we know of neuroscience.

The question is simply, is there anything in the design, to give us direct feed back....?

We could start to question if the pineal gland works as some form of antenna to tune into God, which i think goes just outside of Islam...

Yet then would imply we're here to worship, and understand God?

 

[EtuMalku]

Valid point, i don't have scientific data to present on neuro-activity of people doing the Haj for example; yet then after we collected it, and compared the brains of people completing a marathon, we'd most likely have similar stats.

Or on performing prayer, compared to Buddhist meditations, both would create harmonious brainwave results....

Yet you will have to wait a while for us to collect all the data to compare or we can just speculate for now, based on what we know of neuroscience.

The question is simply, is there anything in the design, to give us direct feed back....?

We could start to question if the pineal gland works as some form of antenna to tune into God, which i think goes just outside of Islam...

Yet then would imply we're here to worship, and understand God?

If other religious adherents / zealots experience religious ecstasy why wouldn't Muslims?
I would look into the various Sufi sects as they tend to be much more susceptible to this ecstasy.
Personally, I do not believe an external force / energy is at the helm of any religious experience. The experience / ecstasy is neurologically created within each of us much in the same way trance possession occurs with certain religions and practices such as spirit summoning.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

If Allah made us to worship him, why not have it in the design plan....?

People get overwhelming quantities of pleasure drugs in the brain called dopamine, anandamide, serotonin, etc.... That cause us to go seeking certain pleasurable stimuli.

So why isn't there euphoria from worshiping Allah, you'd think even to get more dopamine from it, then we get from porn, gambling, alcohol, etc, would induce people to be more inclined to worship, then to go the other way.

So clearly Allah didn't design us to worship him here, as the basic design of a human at a chemical level, implies we're here to enjoy ourselves.

Yeah but the same problem applies to really any deity that does not want people to simply do as they wish.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Do you have any evidence that some Muslims don't experience religious ecstasy?

This is a negative claim so it does not come with a burden of proof.

However a better question would be the positive claim of:

Do we have evidence that some Muslims experience religious ecstasy?

 

[Augustus]

Do we have evidence that some Muslims experience religious ecstasy?

There is actually. Have a look on youtube.

 

[EtuMalku]

This is a negative claim so it does not come with a burden of proof.

However a better question would be the positive claim of:

Do we have evidence that some Muslims experience religious ecstasy?

Here is a Google page with many links from Muslims who claim this.
What kind of evidence would you be looking for?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

There is actually. Have a look on youtube.

I know there is, I was just pointing out the bad logic there.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Here is a Google page with many links from Muslims who claim this.
What kind of evidence would you be looking for?

Ok there is evidence that that happens, however self reporting it is not one of them.

 

[EtuMalku]

I know there is, I was just pointing out the bad logic there.

Ok there is evidence that that happens, however self reporting it is not one of them.

Since you admit you 'know' this, then show us this evidence.

 

[wizanda]

If other religious adherents / zealots experience religious ecstasy why wouldn't Muslims?

The reason for specifying Islam, is the Quran states Allah made man to worship him....Other religions say we're here to suffer, to learn, to desire, etc.

So basically asking Muslims where is the proof, as nearly everything in this reality implies the opposite?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Since you admit you 'know' this, then show us this evidence.

I learned it from here:

http://www.abebooks.com/Ecstasy-Secular-Religious-Experience-Library-Spiritual/11800726890/bd