All things we do are of faith?

[we-live-now]

Today I was pondering faith and came to the conclusion that all things we do are of faith whether we outwardly label them as "good" or "bad". As man see's it, a person either acts out of "unbelief" or "belief". However, is "unbelief" even a real thing?

I propose that "unbelief" is merely the covering over (true) "belief" that all have in their heart. See James 1:21 where it says that (all) have the implanted word inside.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls Ja 1:21

Is "unbelief" even a real thing? Can a person believe in "nothing"? I suspect it is impossible. Isn't what they are really believing in (and acting out) is the underlying "something" (faith/belief) under the veil?

So, if one really examines "unbelief", won't they find that underneath it is a counter-belief that is what the person lives by?

What if all people no matter what their outer religious orientation (or lack thereof) is, are really acting out of belief (faith) within?

Then, according to Romans 1:17, all people are righteous as all live by faith whether it appears as "positive" or "negative" outwardly. The "negative" part simply removes the "veil" and IS the veil (outer flesh) that will in all cases "consume itself" to reveal the truth within.

What if this veil (called "the flesh") that separates the two ("inner" and "outer") is truly what death is? When "death" consumes itself, it will be removed from all mankind and all will see the hidden truth (and according to previous verses have a party!)

And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the veil that is spread over all nations AV Isa 25:7

He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken [it] AV Isa 25:8

 

[Valjean]

Today I was pondering faith and came to the conclusion that all things we do are of faith whether we outwardly label them as "good" or "bad". As man see's it, a person either acts out of "unbelief" or "belief". However, is "unbelief" even a real thing?

I propose that "unbelief" is merely the covering over (true) "belief" that all have in their heart. See James 1:21 where it says that (all) have the implanted word inside.

Unbelief is just a lack of belief, not a rejection or 'covering over'. There's nothing there to cover, nor are there any innate beliefs. I'd expect a lot more philosophic homogeneity if we were all born that way.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls Ja 1:21

Is "unbelief" even a real thing? Can a person believe in "nothing"? I suspect it is impossible. Isn't what they are really believing in (and acting out) is the underlying "something" (faith/belief) under the veil?

No. A "Belief in nothing" doesn't follow, it's a contradiction in terms. It's just a lack of belief, an emptiness, a tabula rasa.

So, if one really examines "unbelief", won't they find that underneath it is a counter-belief that is what the person lives by?

What if all people no matter what their outer religious orientation (or lack thereof) is, are really acting out of belief (faith) within?

Most people have an intrinsic moral sense. How that's sculpted and applied depends on enculturation.

Then, according to Romans 1:17, all people are righteous as all live by faith whether it appears as "positive" or "negative" outwardly. The "negative" part simply removes the "veil" and IS the veil (outer flesh) that will in all cases "consume itself" to reveal the truth within.

What if this veil (called "the flesh") that separates the two ("inner" and "outer") is truly what death is? When "death" consumes itself, it will be removed from all mankind and all will see the hidden truth (and according to previous verses have a party!)

And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the veil that is spread over all nations AV Isa 25:7

He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken [it] AV Isa 25:8

Why all the bible quotes? Why not quote something more authoritative, like some psychological or anthropological studies?

 

[Nakosis]

Today I was pondering faith and came to the conclusion that all things we do are of faith whether we outwardly label them as "good" or "bad". As man see's it, a person either acts out of "unbelief" or "belief". However, is "unbelief" even a real thing?

I propose that "unbelief" is merely the covering over (true) "belief" that all have in their heart. See James 1:21 where it says that (all) have the implanted word inside.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls Ja 1:21

Is "unbelief" even a real thing? Can a person believe in "nothing"? I suspect it is impossible. Isn't what they are really believing in (and acting out) is the underlying "something" (faith/belief) under the veil?

So, if one really examines "unbelief", won't they find that underneath it is a counter-belief that is what the person lives by?

What if all people no matter what their outer religious orientation (or lack thereof) is, are really acting out of belief (faith) within?

Then, according to Romans 1:17, all people are righteous as all live by faith whether it appears as "positive" or "negative" outwardly. The "negative" part simply removes the "veil" and IS the veil (outer flesh) that will in all cases "consume itself" to reveal the truth within.

What if this veil (called "the flesh") that separates the two ("inner" and "outer") is truly what death is? When "death" consumes itself, it will be removed from all mankind and all will see the hidden truth (and according to previous verses have a party!)

And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the veil that is spread over all nations AV Isa 25:7

He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken [it] AV Isa 25:8

Faith is for the ignorant and unknowing. We all start from there, but over time we should gain knowledge. We should test and verify so we can be certain that we know what we know. Then we can act from knowledge and greater certainty so faith is no longer required from us.

For if we remain reliant on faith, how can we presume to teach, express to others the knowledge we contain. Faith is not meant to be a lifetime condition. Faith is for the aspirant, the seeker of knowledge, the student placing their trust in their teacher/mentor. It is our duty to learn, test, verify what we are taught. To go forth with confidence in the knowledge we have gained.

If you continue to use faith as a crutch then you should ask yourself, what have you not learned.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Even if it is true that "unbelief" about a thing is merely cover or support for belief in other things... this does nothing to prove God's actual existence. This does nothing to prove the correctness or alignment with reality of your chosen faith/religious-observance. This does absolutely nothing to tell you whether or not your trials and tribulations in your "religious journey" are a waste of time. In fact... it doesn't really DO anything for you. And it will not do anything to the assured countenance of those who do not believe in your god that you are trying to pull the rug out from under with ideas like this. This I can assure you.

 

[we-live-now]

Unbelief is just a lack of belief, not a rejection or 'covering over'. There's nothing there to cover, nor are there any innate beliefs. I'd expect a lot more philosophic homogeneity if we were all born that way.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls Ja 1:21

No. A "Belief in nothing" doesn't follow, it's a contradiction in terms. It's just a lack of belief, an emptiness, a tabula rasa.


Most people have an intrinsic moral sense. How that's sculpted and applied depends on enculturation.

Why all the bible quotes? Why not quote something more authoritative, like some psychological or anthropological studies?

I guess I was going by the title of the forum "Biblical debates".

 

[we-live-now]

Faith is for the ignorant and unknowing. We all start from there, but over time we should gain knowledge. We should test and verify so we can be certain that we know what we know. Then we can act from knowledge and greater certainty so faith is no longer required from us.

For if we remain reliant on faith, how can we presume to teach, express to others the knowledge we contain. Faith is not meant to be a lifetime condition. Faith is for the aspirant, the seeker of knowledge, the student placing their trust in their teacher/mentor. It is our duty to learn, test, verify what we are taught. To go forth with confidence in the knowledge we have gained.

If you continue to use faith as a crutch then you should ask yourself, what have you not learned.

I agree with you that knowledge is the ultimate that we are seeking. Knowledge is beyond the realm of perception where belief lies.

 

[we-live-now]

Even if it is true that "unbelief" about a thing is merely cover or support for belief in other things... this does nothing to prove God's actual existence. This does nothing to prove the correctness or alignment with reality of your chosen faith/religious-observance. This does absolutely nothing to tell you whether or not your trials and tribulations in your "religious journey" are a waste of time. In fact... it doesn't really DO anything for you. And it will not do anything to the assured countenance of those who do not believe in your god that you are trying to pull the rug out from under with ideas like this. This I can assure you.

How can one prove infinity?

 

[we-live-now]

Unbelief is just a lack of belief, not a rejection or 'covering over'. There's nothing there to cover, nor are there any innate beliefs. I'd expect a lot more philosophic homogeneity if we were all born that way.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls Ja 1:21

No. A "Belief in nothing" doesn't follow, it's a contradiction in terms. It's just a lack of belief, an emptiness, a tabula rasa.


Most people have an intrinsic moral sense. How that's sculpted and applied depends on enculturation.

Why all the bible quotes? Why not quote something more authoritative, like some psychological or anthropological studies?

I was going by the title of the forum of "Biblical debates".

 

[Valjean]

I was going by the title of the forum of "Biblical debates".

Wouldn't that include debate about the Bible's applicability or authority?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

How can one prove infinity?

Why does one end up feeling the need to?

 

[we-live-now]

Wouldn't that include debate about the Bible's applicability or authority?

I don't see why not, do you?

 

[we-live-now]

Why does one end up feeling the need to?

Even if it is true that "unbelief" about a thing is merely cover or support for belief in other things... this does nothing to prove God's actual existence.

I was referring to the last part of the above statement above about "proving God's actual existence". Wouldn't that be like proving infinity?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I was referring to the last part of the above statement above about "proving God's actual existence". Wouldn't that be like proving infinity?

Actually I would think it would be more like producing actual proof of a thing that many people who believe claim is self-evident, everywhere, behind everything and constantly adjusting or manipulating reality. Something they purport is so obvious that if you can't "see" it, you've deluded yourself... but that can just as easily be claimed to only be seen by those who are have deluded themselves so much that they can't help but see it... with neither of those claim really any more verifiably accurate than the other.

 

[we-live-now]

Actually I would think it would be more like producing actual proof of a thing that many people who believe claim is self-evident, everywhere, behind everything and constantly adjusting or manipulating reality. Something they purport is so obvious that if you can't "see" it, you've deluded yourself... but that can just as easily be claimed to only be seen by those who are have deluded themselves so much that they can't help but see it... with neither of those claim really any more verifiably accurate than the other.

Obviously, you are pretty smart. The word "truth" comes to mind as I read your reply. What do you think of the word "truth"?

Does truth exist? If so, in what form or manner?

 

[Valjean]

I don't see why not, do you?

So we're in agreement (I had the impression you thought I'd gone off the rails in post #2 )

 

[ChristineM]

Today I was pondering faith and came to the conclusion that all things we do are of faith whether we outwardly label them as "good" or "bad". As man see's it, a person either acts out of "unbelief" or "belief". However, is "unbelief" even a real thing?

I propose that "unbelief" is merely the covering over (true) "belief" that all have in their heart. See James 1:21 where it says that (all) have the implanted word inside.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls Ja 1:21

Is "unbelief" even a real thing? Can a person believe in "nothing"? I suspect it is impossible. Isn't what they are really believing in (and acting out) is the underlying "something" (faith/belief) under the veil?

So, if one really examines "unbelief", won't they find that underneath it is a counter-belief that is what the person lives by?

What if all people no matter what their outer religious orientation (or lack thereof) is, are really acting out of belief (faith) within?

Then, according to Romans 1:17, all people are righteous as all live by faith whether it appears as "positive" or "negative" outwardly. The "negative" part simply removes the "veil" and IS the veil (outer flesh) that will in all cases "consume itself" to reveal the truth within.

What if this veil (called "the flesh") that separates the two ("inner" and "outer") is truly what death is? When "death" consumes itself, it will be removed from all mankind and all will see the hidden truth (and according to previous verses have a party!)

And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the veil that is spread over all nations AV Isa 25:7

He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken [it] AV Isa 25:8

I tried, i really tried but failed to make sense of your OP.

Disbelief, unbelief, lack of belief, whatever you want to call it exists. Example i lack belief that glass windows are made of concrete. This is evidenced.

Another, i do not believe the moon is made of green cheese. There is no evidence for the claim that the moon is made of green cheese, on the contrary, evidence proves it is not made of green cheese

Another. I lack belief in a god or gods. Why??? No evidence exists for any gods existence. But there are plenty of indicators to suggest gods do not exist.

The key is evidence, with evidence one does not need faith.

 

[we-live-now]

So we're in agreement (I had the impression you thought I'd gone off the rails in post #2 )

Absolutely. I, myself, have questioned the authenticity of "The Bible" and have studied it for thousands of hours since 2012. I think to be skeptical is a good thing. IMHO.

 

[we-live-now]

I tried, i really tried but failed to make sense of your OP.

Disbelief, unbelief, lack of belief, whatever you want to call it exists. Example i lack belief that glass windows are made of concrete. This is evidenced.

Another, i do not believe the moon is made of green cheese. There is no evidence for the claim that the moon is made of green cheese, on the contrary, evidence proves it is not made of green cheese

Another. I lack belief in a god or gods. Why??? No evidence exists for any gods existence. But there are plenty of indicators to suggest gods do not exist.

The key is evidence, with evidence one does not need faith.

You forgot one part and that is critical. I proposed that all things we do flow out of faith. Is there something you do that does not in some way come from what you believe (in this realm of perception)?

What about dark matter? Does it exist?

 

[ChristineM]

You forgot one part and that is critical. I proposed that all things we do flow out of faith. Is there something you do that does not in some way come from what you believe (in this realm of perception)?

What about dark matter? Does it exist?

Believe or disbelieve is doing something.

What? Where did that come from? Ok. Dark matter can be indirectly measured in at least 5 different ways, its effects can be observed.

Now if you had said dark energy...

 

[we-live-now]

Believe or disbelieve is doing something.

What? Where did that come from? Ok. Dark matter can be indirectly measured in at least 5 different ways, its effects can be observed.

Now if you had said dark energy...

What if "believing and disbelieving" are simply opposing sides of the one "sword of faith"?

Doesn't all matter have both a wave (energy) and particle (substance) duality?