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All roads lead to the same God ?

KerimF

Active Member
My view is not the one presented by the Christian writings. I believe he was put to death for sedition. That's it, really. I believe the rest is an embellishment.

I wonder if you also heard that Jesus was interested in building a sort of a rebel army to oppose, at a certain time, the Roman's forces and authority. Obviously, this is a crime that deserves the penalty of death.

But, if this is the case, I am afraid that we are not talking about the same Jesus. The one, I know, says:
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."

I wish I hear more about your Jesus who was interested in power and sovereignty on earth to the point the powerful Roman leaders were afraid he may end the existence of their Roman Empire. Certainly, this Jesus never said to his disciples:
"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

I mean; if we know two different Jesus, it is impossible for us to see both of them in the same way. But I like to thank you for introducing yours.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
I wonder if you also heard that Jesus was interested in building a sort of a rebel army to oppose, at a certain time, the Roman's forces and authority. Obviously, this is a crime that deserves the penalty of death.

But, if this is the case, I am afraid that we are not talking about the same Jesus. The one, I know, says:
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."

I wish I hear more about your Jesus who was interested in power and sovereignty on earth to the point the powerful Roman leaders were afraid he may end the existence of their Roman Empire. Certainly, this Jesus never said to his disciples:
"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

I mean; if we know two different Jesus, it is impossible for us to see both of them in the same way. But I like to thank you for introducing yours.
He wasn't interested in those things, but the Roman authorities had reason to believe he was since folks were calling him the Messiah and the Romans knew that the Jewish Messiah is going to be a King. This is enough to make them neutralise that threat.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
But ultimately Jesus laid down his own life .

Is Jesus not God?
Is God not Eternal?

Out of all of eternity, Jesus spent 30 years as a mortal. Far less than the blink of an eye.
After a mere thirty years, Jesus returned to heaven.

"laid down his own life"? Really? Did He cease to exist?

"God sacrificed His only Son...". That's another "Really?" What sacrifice?
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
This is what I know too. But it seems to me that our friend Rival knows a certain Jesus whom I didn't heard of. This could happen in best families :)
Ask the Jews if this ever happened. See what they say.
 

John1.12

Free gift
Is Jesus not God?
Is God not Eternal?

Out of all of eternity, Jesus spent 30 years as a mortal. Far less than the blink of an eye.
After a mere thirty years, Jesus returned to heaven.

"laid down his own life"? Really? Did He cease to exist?

"God sacrificed His only Son...". That's another "Really?" What sacrifice?
How else should the bible have said it ?
 

KerimF

Active Member
He wasn't interested in those things, but the Roman authorities had reason to believe he was since folks were calling him the Messiah and the Romans knew that the Jewish Messiah is going to be a King. This is enough to make them neutralise that threat.

I try following your reasoning.
You like to believe that Romans were also believers in Jewish scriptures, at least in what concern the Jewish Messiah.
And you don't mind that Romans were somehow naive to believe that it was possible for Jesus folks (who were unarmed) to let their Jesus be a powerful great king on earth (replacing their great Caesar).

So I am sorry for not being able to see the ancient powerful rich Romans as you do.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Which ones . Jewish Christians ?The majority of the first believers were Jewish, the 12 were Jewish. Paul was Jewish .
Jews. Modern Jews. Actual Jews. Ask them if they think or have any record of their ancestors doing this.

I try following your reasoning.
You like to believe that Romans were also believers in Jewish scriptures, at least in what concern the Jewish Messiah.
And you don't mind that Romans were somehow naive to believe that it was possible for Jesus folks (who were unarmed) to let their Jesus be a powerful great king on earth (replacing their great Caesar).

So I am sorry for not being able to see the ancient powerful rich Romans as you do.
Are you making deliberate attempts to misunderstand me?

The Romans knew that the Jews believed their Messiah is going to be a king.

If some Jews believed their Messiah had come, that means there's a new king in town.

That means the new Jewish king is going to overthrow the Roman occupiers.

That means the Romans have to kill him first.

Because the Jewish belief is that yes, the Messiah will be a real, bona fide, warrior king. That's still their belief today. What Jesus actually was isn't the point; it's what the Romans expected him to be based on the Jewish understanding of their own Messiah.
 

John1.12

Free gift
Jews. Modern Jews. Actual Jews. Ask them if they think or have any record of their ancestors doing this.


Are you making deliberate attempts to misunderstand me?

The Romans knew that the Jews believed their Messiah is going to be a king.

If some Jews believed their Messiah had come, that means there's a new king in town.

That means the new Jewish king is going to overthrow the Roman occupiers.

That means the Romans have to kill him first.

Because the Jewish belief is that yes, the Messiah will be a real, bona fide, warrior king. That's still their belief today. What Jesus actually was isn't the point; it's what the Romans expected him to be based on the Jewish understanding of their own Messiah.
Actual Jews ? Actual Jews teach at our Church . Believing Jews who have accepted Jesus as their messiah.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Actual Jews ? Actual Jews teach at our Church . Believing Jews who have accepted Jesus as their messiah.
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im-173021
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Some seem to object to the exclusive claims of Christianity. That the Gospel is the ONLY way ,that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven ,that by believing that he died for all our sins , was buried and rose again . That this alone is the only option there is to heaven and eternal life .
But I believe all our claims are exclusive .Even the claim ' all roads lead to the same God " claim ,this is exclusive and rules out the individual claim of another .
Often its made to sound ' tolerant ' ( The new fashionable, buzz word )
" All truth is relative " again, another exclusive truth claim.
" Thats true for you , but not true for me " hmmm lol ?
I used to believe that all religions were just ' sign posts ' to the same goal . Just different ways to express or reach the same goal " Again this is a exclusive claim.
Thoughts?


All paths do lead to God, even those paths outside of religion. It's about Discovering, Learning, and Growing instead of mere Believing and Hoping.

God is very very Smart. God's system will make sure everyone makes it regardless of their choices. There are no limits to lessons and lives. One can span any path even taking baby steps since there is no time limit on learning.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

KerimF

Active Member
Ask the Jews if this ever happened. See what they say.

A faithful real Jew is not supposed to believe anything about Jesus, at least the one I know.
A faithful real Jew is supposed to believe that the Messiah will come someday to play the world's king on Earth; just on one planet among zillion ones which are surfing in the created huge universe!

So I would be real surprised (if not shocked) if a Jew agrees on what I know of Jesus :)
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
A faithful real Jew is not supposed to believe anything about Jesus, at least the one I know.
A faithful real Jew is supposed to believe that the Messiah will come someday to play the world's king on Earth; just on a planet among zillion ones which are surfing in the created huge universe!

So I would be real surprised (if not shocked) if a Jew agrees on what I know of Jesus :)
I wish you'd go play your game somewhere else, honestly. This became boring fast.
 
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