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All roads lead to the same God ?

J

Jona Israel

New Member
Barry Johnson said:
Some seem to object to the exclusive claims of Christianity. That the Gospel is the ONLY way ,that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven ,that by believing that he died for all our sins , was buried and rose again . That this alone is the only option there is to heaven and eternal life .
But I believe all our claims are exclusive .Even the claim ' all roads lead to the same God " claim ,this is exclusive and rules out the individual claim of another .
Often its made to sound ' tolerant ' ( The new fashionable, buzz word )
" All truth is relative " again, another exclusive truth claim.
" Thats true for you , but not true for me " hmmm lol ?
I used to believe that all religions were just ' sign posts ' to the same goal . Just different ways to express or reach the same goal " Again this is a exclusive claim.
Thoughts?
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Shalom, you might wanna check out a new podcast project (actually vlogs) between a Dutch new immigrant and an Israeli orthodox jew, both living in Israël and really respectfully discussing jewish and NT perspectives. Usually there can be some animosity between such views, but this open conversation might wanna make you look at things from a different perspective, as well:
 
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Colt

Colt

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
True, but I was pointing out to Barry that Jesus stole "I am the way" from Krishna. Therefore Jesus cannot be the way. Why would I believe someone who has to steal his most profound material from other gods?
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The claim that someone owns the term "I am the way". Jesus was God on earth, so he can use whatever he wants.
 
J

John1.12

Free gift
KerimF said:
Actually, anyone can claim being the Way.
But can anyone reveal the crucial natural truths concerning life and the real world in order to answer clearly and logically all important questions that a human being may look for?

We like it or not, the common weakness with which all human babies have to be born... is ignorance.
And a person cannot be real free if he couldn't answer all his important questions about his own existence and how the world runs in reality (on the ground, not as presented by great speeches and stories).
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I would challenge any Christian to
SeekingAllTruth said:
True, but I was pointing out to Barry that Jesus stole "I am the way" from Krishna. Therefore Jesus cannot be the way. Why would I believe someone who has to steal his most profound material from other gods?
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What's your evidence that Jesus stole: " 6¶Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ?
 
J

John1.12

Free gift
Windwalker said:
To be clear, this is your opinion of what the Bible teaches. It is not the opinion of other Christians. Personally, I do not think saying that only Christianity is the only way to God, is good news at all. It's pretty terrible news for those who can't swallow what is presented as Christianity to them by fundamentalist preachers. I do not believe the path to God is fundamentalism. Only fundamentalists think that. They insert themselves between God and humans, claiming they speak for the Christ.


You're playing bad semantics here. Exclusivism means something specific when it comes to Christian views. It contrasts with inclusivism and with pluralism within Christian beliefs: Exclusivism - Wikipedia

Religious exclusivism, one of the three classic typologies created by Alan Race in order to describe religions relative to one another, states that one religion, to the exclusion of all others, has the correct understanding of God, truth and salvation and eternal paradise is contingent on one's belief in the core tenets of that religion. Diana Eck states, ‘Exclusivism is more than simply a conviction about the transformative power of the particular vision one has; it is a conviction about its finality and its absolute priority over competing views’.[1]

While it was originally used to define Christianity, exclusivism can apply to any religious belief system, as can Race’s other two categories inclusivism and pluralism. In his 1982 Christians and Religious Pluralism, Race defined pluralism as all religions being equally beneficial, with no single religion dominating. Inclusivism attempts to straddle the poles of pluralism and exclusivism by agreeing with the latter that one religion (Christianity) has the most value, and agreeing with the former by stating that other religions still have significant value.[2] While Race’s three categories have been criticized, amended and refuted, most religious studies and interfaith scholars and students find the typologies useful as a starting point for conversations about the diversity of religions.[3]
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So we're going to set aside playing games with the word "exclusive" here, and go with these typologies, as that is a meaningful discussion. If you want to twist words around to make them fit, and lose these distinctions, then you have no legitimate argument worth anyone's time to listen to.


Again, you are playing semantic games here. This is not meaningful. It's only making you believe you are right, without actually understanding the actual distinctions that make meaningful conversation.
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I don't know any bible believing Christian who does not believe this verse as it says .
6¶Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 
K

KerimF

Active Member
cOLTER said:
The claim that someone owns the term "I am the way". Jesus was God on earth, so he can use whatever he wants.
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By the way, if someone knows how to explain logically that the expressions "Jesus is God" and Jesus is the Son of God" can both be true simultaneously, he surely knows as well what the word God, as revealed by Jesus, refers to.
 
J

John1.12

Free gift
SeekingAllTruth said:
True, but I was pointing out to Barry that Jesus stole "I am the way" from Krishna. Therefore Jesus cannot be the way. Why would I believe someone who has to steal his most profound material from other gods?
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Krishna never said: 6" , I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
 
J

John1.12

Free gift
KerimF said:
By the way, if someone knows how to explain logically that the expressions "Jesus is God" and Jesus is the Son of God" can both be true simultaneously, he surely knows as well what the word God, as revealed by Jesus, refers to.
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God doesn't exist in such a way to suit our understanding. He is who he is .
 
J

John1.12

Free gift
SeekingAllTruth said:
And the Bhagavad Gita says Krishna proclaims he is the only way:

"At many places in the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna said about His oneness with God:

"I am the way, come to Me…Neither the multitude of gods nor great sages knows my origin, for I am the source of all the gods and great sages." In the Holy Bible, Jesus also utters the same in his Gospels: "I am the way and the truth and ..."

Similarities Between the Lives and Teachings of Christ and Krishna

Perhaps you didn't know that the writers of John's gospel stole that "I am the way" from Krishna written hundreds of years earlier. Are they both the way or is Krishna the only way? Or do you say "The Bible is right and the Bhagavad Gita is false." If so, where do you get the temerity to say "This religion is false and my religion is right" when Jesus' theft has just been demonstrated to you?
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Your missing the whole verse .
6¶Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
He didn't just say " I am the way " . Lots of folks have claimed and still claim they are the way . But not "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 
SeekingAllTruth

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
Your missing the whole verse .
6¶Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
He didn't just say " I am the way " . Lots of folks have claimed and still claim they are the way . But not "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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Jesus also didn't say, "I am the ONLY way" did he? What have you got to say about that? You also apparently don't know Krishna's whole statement:

"In every respect, I am the source of the demigods and the sages. I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. He who knows Me...is freed from all sins."

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 10: The Opulence of the Absolute

Krishna promises to free me from my sins if I believe in him same as Jesus. Who is right?
 
K

KerimF

Active Member
Barry Johnson said:
God doesn't exist in such a way to suit our understanding. He is who he is .
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I am sorry again because Jesus I know didn't come to keep me ignorant about anything I really need to know. He helped me discover, even after about 2000 years, the logical answers of all questions I was looking for. For this reason only I became sure that He is not just man or a character who is made famous for money and power. He is my divine perfect teacher who came in a human flesh as mine to save me from my greatest weakness, 'ignorance' with which I was born.

But it is also possible that Jesus whom you heard of is not like the one I know and he couldn't help you in this respect, as you said, like mine did to me. Anyway, I am sure you feel very well with Jesus you know and this the most important thing in one's life I guess.
 
K

KerimF

Active Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
Krishna said everything emanates from him. That would include light.
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By the way, I was specific while referring to Light because the only true Light I know is the Light of the Perfect True Knowledge (perfect relative to the receiver; I personally needed to know just what concern my existence and the world's reality I live in).

Jesus helped me get this perfect knowledge (perfect, relative to my needs).
So I hope that Krishna did the same to you.
 
SeekingAllTruth

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
cOLTER said:
Didn't do what Jesus did. I can find people in Time Square that think they are God, doesn't mean that they are. This is just part of your ongoing campaign against Jesus.
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How do you know Krishna didn't do what Jesus did, cOLTER? Have you read the Bhagavad Gita?
 
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