All laws abolished, by Jesus, or otherwise

[Faithofchristian]

There only was one divine law ever. It never was Mosaic law. We have been asked not to judge and now we take upon the task to determine how God has to judge? The only thing we need to do is Repent. Stop all the foolish theologies and doctrines. One needs to look upon the son of the man on the cross and understand what is expected of us, our shortfalls and Repent.

As to where does it say, That we are not to judge?
Christ Jesus said "Judge not by the appearance, but Judge Righteous Judgement.
Therefore we can judge, Just don't judge them by their appearance.make absolutely positively sure that they are doing to what they are revealing.

Even God told Joshua when they cross over the river Jordan to Judge those people on the other side of the river Jordan.
If you judge a person falsely, then you will be judged for judging them falsely.

If you judge a person for what they do, Then you are found in doing the same thing, Then you judged that person falsely. And condemn yourself.
If a person is found in doing something that is not right and you go long with it and telling that person that God loves them, Then you are no better than them and condemn yourself right along with them.

1 John 10 - 11
"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God's love, For he that bids him God's love is partaker of his evil deeds"

 

[Faithofchristian]

Alot of Christians if not all Christians are taught that Matthew 5:17-19. Is referring to the Ten Commandment law.

Which is not true. If you were to read from verse 1 to verse 19. You will find that not one time did Christ Jesus say anything about the Ten Commandment law.

Notice in Verse 19, Christ Jesus said, "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments"

Ok let's stop right here, What least Commandments ?
Go back and read from verse 1 to verse 19.
There you find those are the commandments that Christ Jesus is talking about.
These commandments are the law of the kingdom of heaven.
These are the law's that Christ Jesus came to fulfil.

Now as for Verse's 20-32,
Christ Jesus speaking to the people explaining to them how their righteousness must Excel the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees.
Christ Jesus using "Thou shalt not kill" to show the people, how the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, will say, Thou shalt not kill"
Christ Jesus taking this a step further, showing the people that their righteousness must Excel the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees.
That the people are not to even be angry with their brother's without a cause shall be in danger of the Judgement.

Many Christians are taught by man's teachings, that of Matthew 5:17-19 that Christ Jesus is referring to the 10 Commandment law.
Which is not True.

In Matthew 5:1-19, Christ Jesus giving the law's of the kingdom of heaven.

And verses 20-32 Christ Jesus letting the people know their righteousness must Excel the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees.thereby Jesus used "Thou shalt not kill" as example for the people. That the scribes and Pharisees will say, your not to kill,
Jesus took it a step further in saying, if your angry with your brother without a cause, you will be in danger of the Judgement.

 

[12jtartar]

/this thread is only intended to be discussed in a 'Jesus' adherence, or Jesus validity, context.
otherwise, ''same faith'', here, is meant broadly.


@Deeje

Were the Torah laws modified, or nullified?
My argument, is that they were mostly modified,

syncretic,
Remember, Jesus said that he did not come to destroy the Law, but to Fulfill it, Matthew 5:17. Also consider the next verse, where Jesus said that none of the Law would pass away, UNTIL all things were accomplished, Matthew 5:18. Jesus would fulfill all the things in the Mosaic Law Covenant before he would die, then the Mosaic Law Covenant would be Superceded by The New Covenant, that Jesus instituted on the night before his death, Luke 24:44, 22:14-21, 1Corinthians 11:23-27, Hebrews 8:6-13. The New Covenant was much better than the Mosaic Covenant, because it was based on Jesus precious blood, the Mosaic Covenant on the blood of goats and bulls, Hebrews 9:11-15. Everyone under the Mosaic Law Covenant was under the Curse of sin and death, Jesus removed this Curse, Galatians 3:7-14.
Another very important point, the New Covenant covered all the sins that we could not be forgiven from under the Mosaic Covenant, Acts 13:29-39.
This New Covenant was prophesied by Jeremiah, it was never to be a permanent Covenant, but only until Jesus came, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Galatians 3:19-25.

 

[Faithofchristian]

syncretic,
Remember, Jesus said that he did not come to destroy the Law, but to Fulfill it, Matthew 5:17. Also consider the next verse, where Jesus said that none of the Law would pass away, UNTIL all things were accomplished, Matthew 5:18. Jesus would fulfill all the things in the Mosaic Law Covenant before he would die, then the Mosaic Law Covenant would be Superceded by The New Covenant, that Jesus instituted on the night before his death, Luke 24:44, 22:14-21, 1Corinthians 11:23-27, Hebrews 8:6-13. The New Covenant was much better than the Mosaic Covenant, because it was based on Jesus precious blood, the Mosaic Covenant on the blood of goats and bulls, Hebrews 9:11-15. Everyone under the Mosaic Law Covenant was under the Curse of sin and death, Jesus removed this Curse, Galatians 3:7-14.
Another very important point, the New Covenant covered all the sins that we could not be forgiven from under the Mosaic Covenant, Acts 13:29-39.
This New Covenant was prophesied by Jeremiah, it was never to be a permanent Covenant, but only until Jesus came, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Galatians 3:19-25.

In Matthew 5:17 can you explain as to which law that is. We know it is not the Ten Commandment law, for Jesus said nothing about the Ten Commandment law in all those Verse's 3 thru 19.

As for all those Verse's 20 thru 22, Jesus is explaining to the people how their righteousness is to exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees.
So these Verse's 20-22, has nothing to do with the Verse's 3 thru 19.

So which law is Jesus referring to in Matthew 5:17-19?

 

[pearl]

Jesus said nothing about the Ten Commandment law in all those Verse's 3 thru 19.

Jesus would not have used that terminology. 'Ten Commandments' is a Christian title.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Jesus would not have used that terminology. 'Ten Commandments' is a Christian title.

Ok, What law was Jesus referring to in Matthew 5:17-19.

 

[pearl]

Ok, What law was Jesus referring to in Matthew 5:17-19.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill."

He is referring to the Mosaic law and prophets. The Mosaic law inclusive as found in Exodus and were not divided into ten. Some denominations take their form from numbering the Ex account. The Catholic model is from the Decalogue in Deuteronomy.

 

[Faithofchristian]

To answer this question, in the book of Matthew chapter 5:17 Jesus saying that he has not come to destroy the law or the prophets.
Ok so the question is, what law is Jesus referring to?

Most people if not alot people are being taught that this law is the Ten Commandment law.
Unto which is Not true at all.

Rather than people back up to the beginning of a chapter and pick up what the subject and Article is about. They just run with what they are taught.

Note it's not at all what they are being taught.

Ok with this said.

Let's go back to the beginning of Matthew chapter 5.
Note from Verse 1 thru Verse 16, that Jesus has given to the people the laws of the kingdom of heaven.

Which People are taught to jump over these Verse's. And go right to verse 17-19.

Note in Verse 19 Jesus said, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments.

What lease Commandments?, The ones Jesus just gave you Verse's 3-16.

You see when Jesus said Whosoever therefore shall break one these least commandments, what Jesus is doing, is pointing you back to those Verse's 3 thru 16.
That if a person breaks one of (these) least commandments. Verse's 3 thru 16.

And teach men so, shall be called lease in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Faithofchristian]

There were no laws abolished by Jesus.

Like the sacrificial lamb offering, once Jesus was nailed to the cross and died, Jesus fulfilled that law, thereby brought it to an end.
If Jesus would haved abolished the sacrificial lamb offering, there would have been no reason for Jesus to had been nailed to cross.
But since Jesus came to fulfil the sacrificial lamb offering, once Jesus was nailed to the cross, The sacrificial lamb offering came to an end.
The sacrificial lamb, Represented Jesus, Until Jesus came and nailed to the cross, Then the sacrificial lamb would come to an end.

 

[Faithofchristian]

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill."

He is referring to the Mosaic law and prophets. The Mosaic law inclusive as found in Exodus and were not divided into ten. Some denominations take their form from numbering the Ex account. The Catholic model is from the Decalogue in Deuteronomy.

My question is how do you come by that, when in fact Jesus made no mentioning of the law of Moses in Matthew chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 19 ?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Sure,



There is a difference between a ''summary'', and a 'in the context of'; I'm reading it not as a summary, personally.





That is what the Torah is, to you? Why would you even read it?



Generally agree, however, do you think that Jesus would have agreed with the Saduccees?


I never mentioned the Pharisees or false interpretation of Torah.





Jesus is affirming Torah, here, not abolishing it.


Great.




The Sabbath is obviously redemptive// Sunday, the Christian Sabbath. That being said it may not be 'necessary'. Adherence is going to vary there, and always has.

It really doesn't matter what day you may keep, Whether it be the 7th day sabbath or the Christian 1st day of the week sunday sabbath ?

If you not entering God's rest, keeping a day is useless.

Look back at the time when Moses and Israel were out in the wilderness for 40 yrs
They were keeping the 7th day sabbath.

Notice what God had to say --"Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway error in their heart, and they have not known my ways" Heb 3:10

Just because Israel was in the keeping the 7th day sabbath, they still didn't know God's ways.


Look what God has to say next --"So I swear in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest" Heb 3:11

Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day sabbath for 40 yrs, They Still were not entering God's rest.

Therefore just because what ever day you may keep does not mean your entering God's rest.

As did Israel 40 yrs was keeping the 7th day sabbath, But still were not entering God's rest.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:1.

Note ( entering into his rest )

"For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not Afterward have spoken of another day" Heb 4:8.

Note that Jesus never spoken of another day, Why ?
Because people are called to rest in Christ Jesus.
"Come unto me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"
Matthew 11:28.

 

[pearl]

My question is how do you come by that, when in fact Jesus made no mentioning of the law of Moses in Matthew chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 19 ?

Moses and Elijah represent the Law and the Prophets and are linked to Mount Sinai.

They now appear with Jesus as witnesses to the fulfillment of the law and the prophets taking place in the person of Jesus. Mark 9

 

[Faithofchristian]

Moses and Elijah represent the Law and the Prophets and are linked to Mount Sinai.

They now appear with Jesus as witnesses to the fulfillment of the law and the
prophets taking place in the person of Jesus. Mark 9

How exactly does that of Moses and Elijah fit into Matthew Chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 19 ?

 

[pearl]

How exactly does that of Moses and Elijah fit into Matthew Chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 19 ?

Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew and here is speaking completely within the confines of the arguments of the Judaism of His time.
The opinion of previous Torah exegetes is given first; thereafter the speaker gives his own interpretation as a contribution to the correct understanding (the ‘establishment’) of the Torah. Jesus stands completely within the tradition of Israel.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew and here is speaking completely within the confines of the arguments of the Judaism of His time.
The opinion of previous Torah exegetes is given first; thereafter the speaker gives his own interpretation as a contribution to the correct understanding (the ‘establishment’) of the Torah. Jesus stands completely within the tradition of Israel.

Can you explain what law exactly was Jesus talking about in Matthew Chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 19 ?

 

[pearl]

Can you explain what law exactly was Jesus talking about in Matthew Chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 19 ?

The Law is the Torah, the Torah of Moses.
Whoever interprets the Torah wrongly ‘unravels’ the word of the Torah; whoever gives the correct interpretation ‘fulfills’ the word or ‘establishes’ it’
Six examples of the conduct demanded of the Christian disciple. Each deals with a commandment of the law, introduced by You have heard that it was said to your ancestors or an equivalent formula, followed by Jesus’ teaching in respect to that commandment, But I say to you; thus their designation as "antitheses." Three of them accept the Mosaic law but extend or deepen it, three reject it as a standard of conduct for the disciples.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Remember when Michael disputes the body of Moses with the devil, that's because Jesus said to only follow his own laws.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Law is the Torah, the Torah of Moses.
Whoever interprets the Torah wrongly ‘unravels’ the word of the Torah; whoever gives the correct interpretation ‘fulfills’ the word or ‘establishes’ it’
Six examples of the conduct demanded of the Christian disciple. Each deals with a commandment of the law, introduced by You have heard that it was said to your ancestors or an equivalent formula, followed by Jesus’ teaching in respect to that commandment, But I say to you; thus their designation as "antitheses." Three of them accept the Mosaic law but extend or deepen it, three reject it as a standard of conduct for the disciples.

As to how do you that for sure it's the Mosaic law which Jesus is talking about, when in fact Jesus himself does not say.

All your doing is giving assumption which doesn't mean nothing, unless you can give where Jesus said it's the Mosaic law which he speaking of.
Without factual proof of Jesus saying it.

All you have is nothing.

 

[pearl]

As to how do you that for sure it's the Mosaic law which Jesus is talking about, when in fact Jesus himself does not say.

What other law would suggest? Do you think He was referring to Roman law? The law and the prophets refers to the whole of God's revelation in the OT.

 

[Faithofchristian]

What other law would suggest? Do you think He was referring to Roman law? The law and the prophets refers to the whole of God's revelation in the OT.

Why don't you go back read Matthew Chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 19 again. Jesus tells what law he's talking about.