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Alexander's Dictum and Metaphysical Pluralism

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
According to Jaegwon Kim, Samuel Alexander proposed that “to be is to have causal powers.” I haven't found exactly where Alexander said that (apparently not in Space, Time and Deity), but I trust Kim on this matter.

Just to be on the safe side, but having nothing to do with my argument here, I wish to modify Alexander's Dictum. I wish to assert merely that to be causal is to have ontological status. Inverting the dictum thusly avoids commitment to the proposition that only those phenomena that are causal are ontological, that is, that producing effects is a necessary rather than sufficient condition for something to be. As of right now, I do not wish rule out the claim that something exists even though it may not be causal or cannot be determined by humans to produce effects. The metaphysics of causation is a very complex subject matter where it seems the most essential issues (e.g., the nature of the causal relata; the nature of the causal relation) remain unresolved. It is entirely plausible that a phenomenon or entity does produce effects, but humans cannot determine that it does. And I am also willing to entertain the idea that something lacking causal power could be said to exist.

Nevertheless, for purposes here, it is sufficient to agree that all phenomena that are causal enjoy ontological status.

Macroscopic objects and/or spatially and temporally extended events or processes can be causal such that their effects are not reducible to the properties of their constituent parts. Look at what a tornado can cause. That swath of destruction is not accounted for by the properties of the elementary particles that might be claimed to constitute the tornado at any given time. (Indeed, exactly which elementary particle or speck of dust might be said to constitute a tornado changes constantly and would be largely indeterminate at any given time.) “ . . . a tornado is a self-organizing entity caught up in a global pattern behavior that seems to be autonomous with respect to the massive aggregation of air and water molecules which constitute it.” There are myriad such examples of downward causation.

Robert Bishop defends the claim that Rayleigh-Bénard convection is an example of a nonlinear system that exhibits downward causation. Reflecting the method by which downward causation is commonly identified as achieving its effects, Bishop explains, “. . . in the context of Rayleigh-Bénard convection, higher-level physical structures (Bénard cells) constrain and modify the behaviors of the lower-level system constituents (fluid elements).”

In a comprehensive paper (and its revision published in 2010), Richard J. Campbell and Mark H. Bickhard begin by highlighting the seemingly uncontroversial arguments for the failures of both non-reductive and reductive physicalism, indeed the failure of substance metaphysics wholly. They ultimately appeal to the facts of quantum field theory in arguing against the thesis that the realm of microphysical particles is somehow fundamental, and for a process model of emergence, with the ineluctable element of downward (and horizontal) causation.

Unbeknownst to or simply unacknowledged by many people, in recent decades there has been a rather robust debate among biologists regarding the role of natural selection in the evolutionary process, namely whether natural selection is purely a negative mechanism, merely filtering and distributing the frequency of traits already existing in a population, or plays a creative function in the generation of organismal traits. Maximiliano Martínez and Andrés Moya dissect this debate and advocate for the latter, taking their cue from Donald Campbell in arguing that downward causation exerts an essential influence of higher level phenomena on those of lower levels:

Campbell (1974, 180ff) asserts that nature is organized hierarchically into different levels: molecules, cells, tissues, organs, organisms, populations, species and ecosystems. Each of these levels has a factual reality and organizes the actual existing units present in the lower level. He proposes the principle of downward causation to refer to the influence that higher levels exert on lower ones and links it with the operation of natural selection.

[The principle of downward causation]: Where natural selection operates, through life and death at a higher level of organization, the laws of the higher-level selective system determine in part the distribution of lower-level events and substances ... All processes at the lower levels of a hierarchy are restrained by and act in conformity to the laws of the higher levels (Campbell 1974, 180).
Grouping together numerous generations of temporarily successive self-replicating entities is useful for understanding the central point that the concept of downward causation attempts to reflect: the states and events of entities at a higher level exert causal influence (in the future) on their own subsequent replications. This is the way in which generationally successive entities of a higher level establish a causal connection; i.e., through the influence exerted on future lower-level entities, which, in turn, are responsible for the construction of new higher-level entities (in a typical process of upward causation). In this case, Campbell is considering the reciprocal causal relationship between two levels (through a replication process): the organismal (phenotype) and the molecular (genotype).

To make the matter clearer we shall reconstruct the example that Campbell (1974, 181) uses to illustrate the action of downward causation and its relationship with natural selection. If we consider the anatomy of the jaws of a worker termite or ant, we note that the ligaments and muscle surface obey the laws of mechanics (Archimedes lever), and are designed optimally to apply maximum force at a determined distance from the joint. This fact agrees with physics, but is different from that implied by molecular processes, which are those that govern the production of specific proteins building the muscle and shell of the mandibular system. Such macro-mechanical laws operate at the level of organisms. Thus, according to Campbell, in order to understand and explain the particular and exact distribution of proteins that make up the jaw as well as the corresponding specific DNA sequence, which are at the lower level (molecular), it is necessary to determine the laws of the lever at the higher level (organisms). For Campbell, this is one of the processes that involves both directions of causation, as it is organism-scale natural selection that determines (causes) what specific types of proteins are present at the molecular level, although the immediate microdetermination (cause) is in the direction of DNA→protein→jaw. Thus the events at a higher level of organization (individuals) partly determine the permanence, formation, and distribution of the organization of entities at lower levels (DNA), which in turn will subsequently reproduce, through upward causation, new higher-level entities.

In other words, the adaptive success or failure of certain higher-level entities has a decisive effect on the future presence and distribution of the lower-level entities that (re)produce them. The adaptive role of ants’ jaws determines the continuity or disappearance of the DNA strands that produce them. It is in this sense that higher-level entities, through downward causation, have an impact on future events in both entities of the same level (individuals) and the lower levels that compose them (DNA).​

Martinez and Moya go on to explicate the “revision” of natural selection that they propose, in which downward causation is clearly and unavoidably involved in the creative functioning of natural selection:

We think that the notion of downward causation proposed by Campbell helps enormously in capturing the positive action of natural selection between levels. Linking this notion of downward causation (which focuses on the organismal level) with the proposed positive selection of Ayala, Neander, and Dobzhansky (which focuses on the genetic level), we can better understand how the selective events that occur at a time t at a higher level determine certain entities that later appear at the lower level, all in a reproductive chain. Natural selection at the individual (higher) level determines which genetic material (lower level) will prevail and which will disappear in the following generation(s). The relationship between downward causation and natural selection is possible thanks to the phenomenon of heredity. It is precisely this type of top-down causation that allows natural selection to determine and channel the material upon which future variation will emerge, where it will again subsequently operate. As noted above, the main selective factor promoting the channeling of the genetic material does not operate directly at the genetic level; it does so at the level of the individual. But the top-down connection between the two levels is possible through downward causation. The selection of specific individuals progressively influences, through downward causation, the composition of the genetic pools, making the appearance of successful genetic combinations more probable. In our view, this fundamental multilevel fact demands a revision of the concept of natural selection; we must incorporate the notion of downward causation into our conception of natural selection. This reformulation would enable us to define more clearly the positive causal role that natural selection plays in the production and pattern that organismal form takes.​

In any case, I probably should have stopped with the tornado example above. It's only out of perversity that I wanted to further discuss and point out additional examples of downward causation. In all of the above, the point is that macroscopic phenomena are causal, therefore, according to Alexander's dictum, they be. Their causal powers do not drain down to the effects of properties of elementary particles. Tornadoes are real; they produce real effects that are not accounted for by the properties their constituent elementary particles. Indeed, the world is made up of a variety of such real macroscopic entities--they are real because, according to Alexander's dictum, they have causal powers of their own. In such a world, where there exist multitudinous objects or entities with their own causal powers, the metaphysical thesis of pluralism is true, not the thesis of any sort of monism.

In the same way that tornadoes are not trees or bicycles, tornadoes are not elementary particles (even if substance metaphysics were not refuted by quantum field theory)--they each have have causal powers. All of these items exist in their own right.

To try to preempt a commonplace response to such argument: a xylophone and a spoon may both be made of wood, but that doesn't mean that one is conceptually or functionally reducible to the other, or that either the xylophone or spoon is conceptually or functionally reducible to the wood it's made of. Again, all of these phenomena exist. That's how, on the premise of Alexander's dictum, we deduce that the thesis of pluralism is true and all forms of monism are false.
 
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sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I awarded the post winner for its terrifyingly awesome and sophisticated complexity. Unfortunately I don't know enough to properly understand and process the arguments made here.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I awarded the post winner for its terrifyingly awesome and sophisticated complexity. Unfortunately I don't know enough to properly understand and process the arguments made here.
Sayak, you funny. I didn't intend to say anything terrifyingly awesome or sophisticatedly complex. My argument here is really very simple: To be causal is to have ontological status. A nearly endless variety of macroscopic objects are causal. Therefore, a nearly endless variety of macroscopic objects have ontological status--and, as a consequence, the metaphysical thesis of pluralism is true.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sayak, you funny. I didn't intend to say anything terrifyingly awesome or sophisticatedly complex. My argument here is really very simple: To be causal is to have ontological status. A nearly endless variety of macroscopic objects are causal. Therefore, a nearly endless variety of macroscopic objects have ontological status--and, as a consequence, the metaphysical thesis of pluralism is true.
Thanks. Now what is this metaphysical thesis of pluralism? Obviously there are lots of different stuff. But that's not the point surely?
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
To try to preempt a commonplace response to such argument: a xylophone and a spoon may both be made of wood, but that doesn't mean that one is conceptually or functionally reducible to the other, or that either the xylophone or spoon is conceptually or functionally reducible to the wood it's made of. Again, all of these phenomena exist. That's how, on the premise of Alexander's dictum, we deduce that the thesis of pluralism is true and all forms of monism are false.

This seems to be a disagreement over terms. According to this reasoning, non-reductive physicalism would be an oxymoron in the first place.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Thanks. Now what is this metaphysical thesis of pluralism? Obviously there are lots of different stuff. But that's not the point surely?
Well, yeah, that there are lots of different sorts of phenomena that exist in a way that is irreducible to their constituent parts is, more or less, that basic thesis of metaphysical pluralism.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This seems to be a disagreement over terms. According to this reasoning, non-reductive physicalism would be an oxymoron in the first place.
What terms are you claiming that someone disagreed over?

In what way is "non-reductive physicalism" not oxymoronic? My impression is that it doesn't seem to attract much endorsement in the philosophical literature these days.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, yeah, that there are lots of different sorts of phenomena that exist in a way that is irreducible to their constituent parts is, more or less, that basic thesis of metaphysical pluralism.
Table is made of carbon atoms. That is at least an empirically valid statement. That does not mean that the table does not exist in its own right. Is somebody saying different?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I can't say this is how I arrived at pluralism, but it's an interesting argumentation. I think I could do with some clarity, though, because "pluralism" means various things and I'd like to be sure I'm reading as the OP intended. By pluralism, which of these is meant?
  1. Pluralism, metaphysical = there is more than one reality
    • Example: proposing that there are nine distinct worlds unified by the world tree Yggdrasil
  2. Pluralism, substance = multiple distinct substances underpin reality
    • Example: proposing that the Four Elements if Air, Fire, Earth, Water are the irreducible substances that underpin all reality
  3. Pluralism, ontological = there are different modes of being that are distinct
    • Example: proposing that there are different ways of being real, or that 'fiction' and 'fact' are both real in different ways
  4. Pluralism, epistemological = there is no one truth but many truths
    • Example: proposing that human limits to knowledge necessitate not just multiple accounts of the truth, but multiple truths themselves
  5. Pluralism = ?
You seem to be proposing some type of pluralism not covered by the above. You call it metaphysical pluralism, but your usage seems a bit different than what I'm used to. @sayak83 is asking questions that get at some of my confusion... haha.

If I had to label it I might call it "Pluralism, object"?
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Table is made of carbon atoms. That is at least an empirically valid statement. That does not mean that the table does not exist in its own right. Is somebody saying different?
All people espousing some form of monism claim that the table is somehow conceptually reducible to the same "stuff" that everything else is reducible to.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I can't say this is how I arrived at pluralism, but it's an interesting argumentation. I think I could do with some clarity, though, because "pluralism" means various things and I'd like to be sure I'm reading as the OP intended. By pluralism, which of these is meant?
  1. Pluralism, metaphysical = there is more than one reality
    • Example: proposing that there are nine distinct worlds unified by the world tree Yggdrasil
  2. Pluralism, substance = multiple distinct substances underpin reality
    • Example: proposing that the Four Elements if Air, Fire, Earth, Water are the irreducible substances that underpin all reality
  3. Pluralism, ontological = there are different modes of being that are distinct
    • Example: proposing that there are different ways of being real, or that 'fiction' and 'fact' are both real in different ways
  4. Pluralism, epistemological = there is no one truth but many truths
    • Example: proposing that human limits to knowledge necessitate not just multiple accounts of the truth, but multiple truths themselves
  5. Pluralism = ?
You seem to be proposing some type of pluralism not covered by the above. You call it metaphysical pluralism, but your usage seems a bit different than what I'm used to. @sayak83 is asking questions that get at some of my confusion... haha.

If I had to label it I might call it "Pluralism, object"?
Personally, I'd most readily endorse #2, except I'd say process rather than substance. But I'm good with #3 also.

How did you arrive at pluralism?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
All people espousing some form of monism claim that the table is somehow conceptually reducible to the same "stuff" that everything else is reducible to.
Nah. We merely claim everything is essentially made up of the same stuff (for us it's Brahman) . Same substrate. Causal distinction between various forms that emerge from the substrate is the reason why different things exist despite monism.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Nah. We merely claim everything is essentially made up of the same stuff (for us it's Brahman) . Same substrate. Causal distinction between various forms that emerge from the substrate is the reason why different things exist despite monism.
You're welcomed to state an argument that "everything is essentially made up of Brahman". How does one falsify that thesis?
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
What terms are you claiming that someone disagreed over?

In what way is "non-reductive physicalism" not oxymoronic?

Because not everyone sees it through your lens.
Because whether something can be reduced to something else is irrelevant if your intent is to discard Monism.

My impression is that it doesn't seem to attract much endorsement in the philosophical literature these days.

What does ?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
You're welcomed to state an argument that "everything is essentially made up of Brahman". How does one falsify that thesis?
One way to think about it is this. Two radically different substrate essences can't interact with each other. That object "a" is recognizing object "b" as they come into contact and get impacted by it reveals the unity of essence between them. An analogy can be made from how ordinary matter has difficulty interacting with dark matter as they are quite different. This makes it plausible to posit that everything that is seen to interact together are in essence, the same substrate that emerge onto distinct existants through different forms and structures that in turn create distinction in properties and causal powers.

Disproof is simple. Find two essentially different substrates.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Because not everyone sees it through your lens.
? That isn't very informative in answer to any question I asked.
Because whether something can be reduced to something else is irrelevant if your intent is to discard Monism.
Trees, cars and pianos are distinct things that exist. Right? How do you derive metaphysical monism from that without claiming that they all conceptually reduce to something?

What does ?
Non-reductive physicalism does not seem very popular these days among professional philosophers. For instance, Kim brings up the issue of causal closure quite a lot in criticism non-reductive physicalism. What is it that is non-reducible in physicalism? In what way is it non-reducible?
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
One way to think about it is this. Two radically different substrate essences can't interact with each other. That object "a" is recognizing object "b" as they come into contact and get impacted by it reveals the unity of essence between them.
So if my car speeding down the freeway does not "get impacted by" a sound wave, then there is no "unity of essence" and dualism is true (both cars and sound waves exist)?

What does any of what you've said here have to do with everything being made up of Brahman? I thought you were going to argue that everything is made up of Brahman.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
According to Jaegwon Kim, Samuel Alexander proposed that “to be is to have causal powers.” I haven't found exactly where Alexander said that (apparently not in Space, Time and Deity), but I trust Kim on this matter.

Just to be on the safe side, but having nothing to do with my argument here, I wish to modify Alexander's Dictum. I wish to assert merely that to be causal is to have ontological status. Inverting the dictum thusly avoids commitment to the proposition that only those phenomena that are causal are ontological, that is, that producing effects is a necessary rather than sufficient condition for something to be. As of right now, I do not wish rule out the claim that something exists even though it may not be causal or cannot be determined by humans to produce effects. The metaphysics of causation is a very complex subject matter where it seems the most essential issues (e.g., the nature of the causal relata; the nature of the causal relation) remain unresolved. It is entirely plausible that a phenomenon or entity does produce effects, but humans cannot determine that it does. And I am also willing to entertain the idea that something lacking causal power could be said to exist.
Have you not agreed that it is possible to reduce all things to that which has causal power?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
To try to preempt a commonplace response to such argument: a xylophone and a spoon may both be made of wood, but that doesn't mean that one is conceptually or functionally reducible to the other, or that either the xylophone or spoon is conceptually or functionally reducible to the wood it's made of. Again, all of these phenomena exist. That's how, on the premise of Alexander's dictum, we deduce that the thesis of pluralism is true and all forms of monism are false.

This seems to imply that the form of an object has importance. The parts + form is necessary to an object's existence.

What is causal of form? Monism assumes that the elements of an object + natural forces is sufficient to explain the existence of an object.

So in your tornado there are natural forces being applied to the constituent parts to create the form of the whole.

Downward causation seems unnecessary in the explanation of a tornado, unless you see something as missing in the ontology.

Irreducible parts + natural forces create form. Form has causality. The existence of some forms maybe difficult to explain by monism, but perhaps this is due more to a lack of knowledge about all the forces necessary to create the form.

I'm not arguing against the OP so much as trying to better understand it.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
? That isn't very informative in answer to any question I asked.
Trees, cars and pianos are distinct things that exist. Right? How do you derive metaphysical monism from that without claiming that they all conceptually reduce to something?

Because being derived from something doesn't entail being reduced to it.
Are they derived from the same substance ? That's the sort of question you should be asking.

Non-reductive physicalism does not seem very popular these days among professional philosophers.

What metaphysical thesis is popular among professional philosophers these days ?

For instance, Kim brings up the issue of causal closure quite a lot in criticism non-reductive physicalism. What is it that is non-reducible in physicalism? In what way is it non-reducible?

How much do you know about Kim's position ?
What is it that he defends ?
 
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