• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Alcohol and Religion

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
The Truth said:
It's really an interesting topic to debate.

As a matter of fact, before Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) was sent for human beings in order to spread Islam he was living among arabs while they were like animals in human forms at that time because they have no religion and they have nothing to worry about like ethics or morals.

Then, when prophet Mohamed(PBUH) started to spread Islam among his people they were drinking alcohol as any other nations at that time so he began to make rules for them but he didn't ordered them at once to stop drinking it but step by step because they used to it.

Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43).

Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219) "which proves that God didn't deny it's benefit but it's evil is more than it's benefit". This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)


In the first verse cited above, the word for "intoxicated" is sukara which is derived from the word "sugar" and means drunk or intoxicated. That verse doesn't mention the drink which makes one so. In the next verses cited, the word which is often translated as "wine" or "intoxicants" is al-khamr, which is related to the verb "to ferment." This word could be used to describe other intoxicants such as beer, although wine is the most common understanding of the word.

Muslims interpret these verses in total to forbid any intoxicating substance -- whether it be wine, beer, gin, whiskey, or whatever. The result is the same, and the Qur'an outlines that it is the intoxication, which makes one forgetful of God and prayer, which is harmful. Over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like. The Prophet Muhammad also instructed his followers, at the time, to avoid any intoxicating substances -- (paraphrased) "if it intoxicates in a large amount, it is forbidden even in a small amount." For this reason, most observant Muslims avoid alcohol in any form, even small amounts that are sometimes used in cooking.

Contemporary pathologists and physicians have lately come to an absolute conclusion about intoxicants, and decided to warn people by pointing out the following facts:
[size=-1]
1) When many people enjoy the feeling when they have a drink, that feeling is a Drug Effect.[/size]



[size=-1]2) It is a nervous system depressant, much like an anesthetic, which, in sufficient quantity, can result in loss of consciousness.[/size]

[size=-1]3) It causes shrinking of the brain, and early senility.[/size]

[size=-1]4) It has a toxic effect on the peripheral nerves, the skeletal muscles, and the heart muscles.[/size]

[size=-1]5) It effects the digestive system, and the sexual system: it decreases active testosterone in men and inhibits the formations of testosterone.[/size]

[size=-1]6) It disturbs a person's quality of sleep, which is one reason a person may feel bad the next day after the night before.[/size]

[size=-1]7) It causes high blood pressure. Even regular use of modest amounts of alcohol, significantly increases the risk of having a hemorrhage in the brain causing a stroke. Heavy drinkers are 5 times as likely to have a hemorrhage stroke as non-drinkers.[/size]



Peace ... :)
Actually, this has prompted me to ask something I've always wondered. Is the Islamic prohibition on alcohol limited or does it extend to other intoxicants? The reason I ask is that I've noticed that historically at least some Muslim groups have used cannabis (the hashashin most famously) and I've never been sure whether this is in contradiction to the Islamic faith or not.

James
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
IacobPersul said:
Actually, this has prompted me to ask something I've always wondered. Is the Islamic prohibition on alcohol limited or does it extend to other intoxicants? The reason I ask is that I've noticed that historically at least some Muslim groups have used cannabis (the hashashin most famously) and I've never been sure whether this is in contradiction to the Islamic faith or not.

James
thanks for asking me about that because many people may have misunderstanding about Islam and you are welcome to ask anything elese about Islam too.

about your question, actually Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) told us somthing clear about alcohol because there are many kinds of it ofcourse so he said that : what makes you be a drunk when you consume it with a large quantity so it's little is haram too "not allowed to drink".( this is my personal translation and explaination for the arabic one )

even though i didn't hear about this kind of wind but some muslims may drink alcohol but it will considered as a sin.

Nevertheless, we can use alcohol for medical purpose like operations .. etc.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
The Truth said:
thanks for asking me about that because many people may have misunderstanding about Islam and you are welcome to ask anything elese about Islam too.

about your question, actually Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) told us somthing clear about alcohol because there are many kinds of it ofcourse so he said that : what makes you be a drunk when you consume it with a large quantity so it's little is haram too "not allowed to drink".( this is my personal translation and explaination for the arabic one )

even though i didn't hear about this kind of wind but some muslims may drink alcohol but it will considered as a sin.

Nevertheless, we can use alcohol for medical purpose like operations .. etc.
So what about cannabis? That certainly has an intoxicating effect. Is it allowed or forbidden in Islam?

James
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
IacobPersul said:
So what about cannabis? That certainly has an intoxicating effect. Is it allowed or forbidden in Islam?

James
Of course forbidden as i explained before.


Peace ... :)
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
The Truth said:
Of course forbidden as i explained before.


Peace ... :)
Sorry, I didn't understand your explanation. I thought you were still referring to alcohol. Any idea how muslims might have historically justified using it and other drugs like opium? It does seem to have been (maybe still is?) quite common in at leat some muslim circles.

James
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
IacobPersul said:
Sorry, I didn't understand your explanation. I thought you were still referring to alcohol. Any idea how muslims might have historically justified using it and other drugs like opium? It does seem to have been (maybe still is?) quite common in at leat some muslim circles.

James
Just as much as I know of muslims who do drink alcohol, here locally, where I live.

Reminds me of my wife recounting the time when she lived in Gibraltar, and where Catholics could pay the Priest a weekly 'fine' for eating meat on Fridays.....:tsk:
 

glasgowchick

Gives Glory to God !!!
Although I believe that God is against one getting drunk and warns us to keep sober, I am sure there is nothing wrong with a little night cap...
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
michel said:
Just as much as I know of muslims who do drink alcohol, here locally, where I live.

Reminds me of my wife recounting the time when she lived in Gibraltar, and where Catholics could pay the Priest a weekly 'fine' for eating meat on Fridays.....:tsk:
Oh, sorry. I guess I didn't make that clear. I'm not asking about individual muslims, I'm well aware some drink and know a Turkish hotelier who got a taste for pork in Germany and now orders it in 'for the guests' and eats it himself! There will always be nominal members of any faith who don't follow the rules and don't try to justify it (by the way, that Catholic thing must be an old story - I don't think they care about meat on Fridays any more except during Lent).

What I actually meant was that it's my understanding, and I may well be wrong, that certain sects appear to have used drugs, specifically cannabis. It's how such sects might have justified this in the light of the information I've received that all intoxicants are forbidden that I'm interested in.

James
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
IacobPersul said:
Sorry, I didn't understand your explanation. I thought you were still referring to alcohol. Any idea how muslims might have historically justified using it and other drugs like opium? It does seem to have been (maybe still is?) quite common in at leat some muslim circles.

James
all kinds of drugs is prohibited in Islam whether opium or any other kind of it and i never heard that they might have historically justified it but if you saw a muslim consuming it so it's not because of the religion but because he is disobeying the rules of islam.

If you have any information about it so i would like to know it from you and to know it's source.

Peace ... :)
 

glasgowchick

Gives Glory to God !!!
can result in loss of consciousness
been there, drank so much I passed out on the chair and woke up still drunk "yuk"
it causes shrinking of the brain and early senility
And I thought my forgetfulness was due to anxiety :eek:
it effects the digestive system and the sexual system
Here is me thinking it was my hormones playing me up :eek:
a persom may feel bad the next after the night before
What about a week after :D The truth, I say all this in good fun but I agree with the effects of Alcohol can have on the body. Do I drink now, no Im as sober as a judge..I may have one or two, Once or twice a year but would rather stick to my soda..
The Truth said:
It's really an interesting topic to debate.

As a matter of fact, before Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) was sent for human beings in order to spread Islam he was living among arabs while they were like animals in human forms at that time because they have no religion and they have nothing to worry about like ethics or morals.

Then, when prophet Mohamed(PBUH) started to spread Islam among his people they were drinking alcohol as any other nations at that time so he began to make rules for them but he didn't ordered them at once to stop drinking it but step by step because they used to it.

Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43).

Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219) "which proves that God didn't deny it's benefit but it's evil is more than it's benefit". This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)


In the first verse cited above, the word for "intoxicated" is sukara which is derived from the word "sugar" and means drunk or intoxicated. That verse doesn't mention the drink which makes one so. In the next verses cited, the word which is often translated as "wine" or "intoxicants" is al-khamr, which is related to the verb "to ferment." This word could be used to describe other intoxicants such as beer, although wine is the most common understanding of the word.

Muslims interpret these verses in total to forbid any intoxicating substance -- whether it be wine, beer, gin, whiskey, or whatever. The result is the same, and the Qur'an outlines that it is the intoxication, which makes one forgetful of God and prayer, which is harmful. Over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like. The Prophet Muhammad also instructed his followers, at the time, to avoid any intoxicating substances -- (paraphrased) "if it intoxicates in a large amount, it is forbidden even in a small amount." For this reason, most observant Muslims avoid alcohol in any form, even small amounts that are sometimes used in cooking.

Contemporary pathologists and physicians have lately come to an absolute conclusion about intoxicants, and decided to warn people by pointing out the following facts:
[size=-1]
1) When many people enjoy the feeling when they have a drink, that feeling is a Drug Effect.[/size]



[size=-1]2) It is a nervous system depressant, much like an anesthetic, which, in sufficient quantity, can result in loss of consciousness.[/size]

[size=-1]3) It causes shrinking of the brain, and early senility.[/size]

[size=-1]4) It has a toxic effect on the peripheral nerves, the skeletal muscles, and the heart muscles.[/size]

[size=-1]5) It effects the digestive system, and the sexual system: it decreases active testosterone in men and inhibits the formations of testosterone.[/size]

[size=-1]6) It disturbs a person's quality of sleep, which is one reason a person may feel bad the next day after the night before.[/size]

[size=-1]7) It causes high blood pressure. Even regular use of modest amounts of alcohol, significantly increases the risk of having a hemorrhage in the brain causing a stroke. Heavy drinkers are 5 times as likely to have a hemorrhage stroke as non-drinkers.[/size]



Peace ... :)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
glasgowchick said:
been there, drank so much I passed out on the chair and woke up still drunk "yuk" And I thought my forgetfulness was due to anxiety :eek: Here is me thinking it was my hormones playing me up :eek: What about a week after :D The truth, I say all this in good fun but I agree with the effects of Alcohol can have on the body. Do I drink now, no Im as sober as a judge..I may have one or two, Once or twice a year but would rather stick to my soda..
stick to your soda ;)
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
glasgowchick said:
been there, drank so much I passed out on the chair and woke up still drunk "yuk" And I thought my forgetfulness was due to anxiety :eek: Here is me thinking it was my hormones playing me up :eek: What about a week after :D The truth, I say all this in good fun but I agree with the effects of Alcohol can have on the body. Do I drink now, no Im as sober as a judge..I may have one or two, Once or twice a year but would rather stick to my soda..
A true Scot; I bet you even have whiskey in your porridge..........:biglaugh:
 

huajiro

Well-Known Member
I don't have a religion and I don't drink, smoke or eat meat. I feel that it is wrong to damage my body. I also know from experience that drinking alcohol can make you go down a not-so-righteous path (trust me, I went down that path many times).
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
:)
Renaldo said:
Haggis, MICH, haggis :)
Haggis ? in Porridge ? Are you mad?:D The scots are renowned for their liberal use of whiskey; many atime has it been used to start a car which has become so cold that it would not start.



The best Quote about whiskey that I know of was by an American:-
Find out what whiskey he drinks and send all of my generals a case, if it will get the same results. (in reply to comments about General Grant's drinking problems)



~ Abraham Lincoln (1809-65)
16th US President, Republican:)




 

Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!
Todd said:
Anyway, my question is, is drinking alcohol against your belief/faith, and if so, why? Is there a specific limit to how much you should drink? Specific passages or scriptures would be good if you have them. Feel free to debate this too.
One of the precepts for laypeople in Buddhism regards use of intoxicants of any kind. Depending on which particular tradition and school of Buddhism you encounter, there are varying interpretations of this precept. Some interpret it as "Not to take intoxicants" meaning a complete prohibition. Others, including my own school, understand the precept as "Not to become intoxicated"; in other words, a glass of wine with dinner or a beer after work is fine. Becoming drunk is not. Obviously the same strictures apply to other intoxicants as well. In addition, any intoxicant which leads to significant addiction should be avoided completely, as the possibility of losing control becomes much higher.

The whole point behind this is that when we lose concious control over our actions and choices, we are far more likely to make decisions which lead to far greater suffering, both our own, our families', and others/society in general's as well.

The point of the precepts for laypeople in general is to help guide people to avoid such behaviors.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Darkdale said:
Wise words; thank you Aristotle. ;) Excess is the undoing of man.
True, but 'undoing' occasionally does no great harm..........:biglaugh:
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
michel said:
True, but 'undoing' occasionally does no great harm..........:biglaugh:

Ah yes, I suppose the indulgence of a night dedicated to the wild manners of Frey never hurt anyone, surely the passions should be honored once in a while. I sometimes pay my own visit to Aegir's Hall, where the beer seems to run forever. So long as we are not slaves to the passions, or to vice, I think a little "wickedness" from time to time is a good thing.
 
Top