Alcohol and Religion

[Todd]

I'm guessing that this has probably been brought up in the past, but here goes.

I just got back from a business trip. During the business trip, I sat down with one of my co-workers/friends (who happens to be Muslim) at a Sports Grille to watch some college football. I ordered a glass of wine before he showed up. He ordered a coke when he arrived. I asked him if he wanted a glass of wine or a beer. He said it's against his religion. I wouldn't have ordered alcohol if I would have known that this was against his religion out of respect for his faith, but I already the glass of wine in front of me when he showed up. I am a Christian, and I know that there are many different beliefs about this just within the Christian faith.

Anyway, my question is, is drinking alcohol against your belief/faith, and if so, why? Is there a specific limit to how much you should drink? Specific passages or scriptures would be good if you have them. Feel free to debate this too.

 

[Katzpur]

Anyway, my question is, is drinking alcohol against your belief/faith, and if so, why? Is there a specific limit to how much you should drink? Specific passages or scriptures would be good if you have them. Feel free to debate this too.

Everybody probably knows this already, but members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have a health code which prohibits us from using alcohol and tobacco. Heck, we don't even drink tea and coffee! (Heck, we're not even supposed to say, "Hell." Aren't we the most boring crowd ever? )

Anyway, this health code was established in 1838. It also stresses a diet high in fruits, vegetables and grains, and suggests moderation in eating meat. I can't give you any quotes from the Bible, because we believe this was a revelation given to Joseph Smith.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

A very good question!

Hmm... In my practices of shamanism and paganism, I'm not sure if there's ever any mention of it. (We tend to be an easy-going bunch.) Having wine during ritual is pretty much up to the person and their tradition.

Editted to remove faulty HTML!

 

[robtex]

I ordered a glass of wine before he showed up. He ordered a coke when he arrived. I asked him if he wanted a glass of wine or a beer. He said it's against his religion. I wouldn't have ordered alcohol if I would have known that this was against his religion out of respect for his faith, but I already the glass of wine in front of me when he showed up. I am a Christian, and I know that there are many different beliefs about this just within the Christian faith.

First off (SMACK!!!) You run a religious forum I am dying laughing over here. I think I have a good understanding of why muslims don't drink but I am going to let them field this one. The muslims on this forum have been very informatative since my arrival last oct.

Wow you are a christian. didn't know that very interesting...maybe you can elaborate on that on another thread sometime soon.

Feathers, paganism is very popular in austin and they don't have any vices with alcohol from what i have seen, which has been alot since my arrival here in 1992. I don't know enough about the pagan beliefs to know why though.

 

[Fluffy]

I dont drink alcohol because of my religion. I do not feel I could live up to "Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, an ye harm none, do what ye will" if I were inebriated and since I am lacking in the will power department, as was proved at a recent party I went to, I feel it is probably best if I stay away from the entire area. However, this is just a personal moral and others who are not so badly affected by alcohol or who find it easier to drink in moderation could easily disregard such a limitation.

 

[michel]

My religion doesn't (as far as I know) prevent me drinking; it would be normal to expect me to drink in moderation.


Unfortunately I have an adictive personality, which means that if I have alcohol at a party, I tend to drink vast quantities - and I can hold my drinK

So I gave up completely on 8th may (The date is inscibed in my memory), because I realize that binge drinking is bad for the liver- I have been known to have three bottles of a decent red wine on my own......followed by a couple of generous cognacs......

I do tend to try and accomodate other's feelings though - just as I used to when I smoked; when I drank, in the company of non drinkers, I would have soft drinks, out of respect.
So, I have given up two vices. anyone know of a legal one (other than sex) in which I can indulge ?:help:

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Everybody probably knows this already, but members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have a health code which prohibits us from using alcohol and tobacco. Heck, we don't even drink tea and coffee! (Heck, we're not even supposed to say, "Hell." Aren't we the most boring crowd ever? )

Anyway, this health code was established in 1838. It also stresses a diet high in fruits, vegetables and grains, and suggests moderation in eating meat. I can't give you any quotes from the Bible, because we believe this was a revelation given to Joseph Smith.

Sound a very healthy diet.
must say I would miss a cup of tea. Though I hardly ever drink alcohol, Though my son in law says I should drink a bit more. as a little is good to limit heart problems.

Terry
______________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[michel]

Sound a very healthy diet.
must say I would miss a cup of tea. Though I hardly ever drink alcohol, Though my son in law says I should drink a bit more. as a little is good to limit heart problems.

Terry
______________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

Your son is right - or you might try 1/2 aspirin a day (as long as you don't have a tendency for ulcers)

 

[Dayv]

I don't know the feelings of other (more orthodox) druids, but I usually try to use the natural world as a guide. Alcohol is a toxin expelled from a bacterium, and so I generally try to avoid it (I've actually never had a drink), but I also believe highly in personal freedom, and so I don't have any problem with other people drinking, so long as they aren't doing any harm to themselves or others.

 

[James the Persian]

Well, we can drink in moderation (it would be rather difficult to partake of the Eucharist otherwise!), but we can't drink for something like 50% of the days of the year (actually, maybe more like 40% - alcohol is alowed in the not so strict fasts). Because they're fast days. Then again, this is not because of thinking there's anything wrong with alcohol in itself, but because it's considered a luxury on a par with olive oil. For those who don't know about Orthodox fasting rules (and more than half the year is a fast of some sort), they go like this (from strict to lenient):

Nil by mouth (before the Eucharist, for instance).
Vegan (but shellfish are OK) with no olive oil or alcohol.
As above with alcohol and oil
As above plus fish
As above plus dairy
Anything.

As you can see, I meant it literally when I said we view any alcohol as a luxury on the same level as olive oil. Of course, even if alcohol is allowed on a fast day, it would be seriously frowned upon for someone to get drunk then.

James

 

[Aqualung]

Everybody probably knows this already, but members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have a health code which prohibits us from using alcohol and tobacco. Heck, we don't even drink tea and coffee! (Heck, we're not even supposed to say, "Hell." Aren't we the most boring crowd ever? )

Anyway, this health code was established in 1838. It also stresses a diet high in fruits, vegetables and grains, and suggests moderation in eating meat. I can't give you any quotes from the Bible, because we believe this was a revelation given to Joseph Smith.

I sort of have a question about that, Katz. Let's say I eat something, and then a few hours later, realise I probably got food poisoning. Do you think it would still be a sin to drink a bit of alcohol to kill the bacteria? (also, know that this does work. It happened to my dad. Except he was the only one who didn't drink (for other reasons) and the only who got sick from the vegetables cut with the same knife as some raw meat.)

 

[Katzpur]

My religion doesn't (as far as I know) prevent me drinking

If it did, Michel, I think you'd probably know it.

I do tend to try and accomodate other's feelings though - just as I used to when I smoked; when I drank, in the company of non drinkers, I would have soft drinks, out of respect.

That's interesting. When I am with people who drink, it in no way bothers me for them to have a glass of wine while I have my Diet Coke. In fact, it's almost the opposite with me. I don't like feeling as if I'm cramping their style. Know what I mean?

The only drawback to them drinking their wine while I was drinking my Diet Coke would be that I'd be jealous. Most Mormons I know have never even tasted alcohol. I have. While I think beer is the absolute worst, and have no trouble whatsoever staying away from mixed drinks, I honestly do like wine.

Kathryn

 

[Katzpur]

Sound a very healthy diet.
must say I would miss a cup of tea. Though I hardly ever drink alcohol, Though my son in law says I should drink a bit more. as a little is good to limit heart problems.

Oh man, I hate tea! By the way, I have read studied which say that grape juice itself (or grape extract in the form of pills) has exactly the same benefits. (Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.)

 

[Katzpur]

I sort of have a question about that, Katz. Let's say I eat something, and then a few hours later, realise I probably got food poisoning. Do you think it would still be a sin to drink a bit of alcohol to kill the bacteria? (also, know that this does work. It happened to my dad. Except he was the only one who didn't drink (for other reasons) and the only who got sick from the vegetables cut with the same knife as some raw meat.)

Wow, Aqualung, I've never heard of alcohol being used as a remedy for food poisoning before! I'm pretty sure that the Church leadership would say it's still a no-no. I really don't know what to tell you. I tend to be a lot more liberal in a lot of areas (including this one) than most Mormons, so I don't want to mislead you. From where I stand, it wouldn't be a sin, but I'm pretty sure 99% of practicing Mormons would tell you it was.

 

[Aqualung]

While I think beer is the absolute worst, and would have no trouble whatsoever staying away from mixed drinks, I honestly do like wine.

Mmmm. I love beer, and I don't like wine. It does make me jealous to see people drink beer.

Wow, Aqualung, I've never heard of alcohol being used as a remedy for food poisoning before! I'm pretty sure that the Church leadership would say it's still a no-no. I really don't know what to tell you. I tend to be a lot more liberal in a lot of areas (including this one) than most Mormons, so I don't want to mislead you. From where I stand, it wouldn't be a sin, but I'm pretty sure 99% of practicing Mormons would tell you it was.

Yeah, the alcohol can kill a lot of bacteria. Anyway, though, I'm essentially trying to interpret the scripture, like with the constitution, or something. For example, I try to see what the writers meant when they said seperation of church and state. Looking at history, it's obvious that they meant no official religion, and not "don't hang the ten commandments in public places." I don't know what was meant when they said no alcohol. I don't know if they said it because all alchohol is bad, or if it's because once people start drinkin, even in moderation, it's hard to stop (me being jealous at people drinking beer), and so then with that interpretation it would be okay. It's 2-1 in favour of drinking alcohol if you have food poisoning .

 

[Runt]

Alcohol has no place in my religion. I do not mean that "we are not allowed to drink alcohol" or "we are discouraged from drinking alcohol" but simply there is not church doctrine that is pushed regarding alcohol. (Although, I have to admit that in the 19th centrury Universalists were very anti-alcohol.)

As for my personal spirituality, I do not drink alcohol for spiritual reasons. I do not abstain from alcohol for spiritual reasons. If I drink alcohol at all, it is for social reasons, because I personally do not find the taste as pleasant as, say, a Pepsi (*love*), and I do not find the feeling alcohol gives me particularly pleasant at all.

However, I do not dislike alcohol either. For me, it ranks somewhere along the lines of coffee--a taste that is not my favorite, but can be good, that has side effects I do not love, but which I will tolerate for short amounts of time.

 

[Darkdale]

Anyway, my question is, is drinking alcohol against your belief/faith, and if so, why? Is there a specific limit to how much you should drink? Specific passages or scriptures would be good if you have them. Feel free to debate this too.

I practice an ancestral religion and the drinking of alcohol/mead is traditional and encouraged in religious activities and also for enjoyment amongst family and friends. However, the Havamal warns several times against drunkenness. So drinking is fine, but drunkenness is bad. Of course, I get drunk from time to time, but I must always be mindful of what I am doing and what the consequences of my actions are.

 

[ChrisP]

When I am trying to meditate or enter into a state of self hypnosis I find a half glass of wine very useful an hour or so before hand. The relaxation of my muscles allows my mind to float free a little easier.

 

[TashaN]

It's really an interesting topic to debate.

As a matter of fact, before Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) was sent for human beings in order to spread Islam he was living among arabs while they were like animals in human forms at that time because they have no religion and they have nothing to worry about like ethics or morals.

Then, when prophet Mohamed(PBUH) started to spread Islam among his people they were drinking alcohol as any other nations at that time so he began to make rules for them but he didn't ordered them at once to stop drinking it but step by step because they used to it.

Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43).

Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219) "which proves that God didn't deny it's benefit but it's evil is more than it's benefit". This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)


In the first verse cited above, the word for "intoxicated" is sukara which is derived from the word "sugar" and means drunk or intoxicated. That verse doesn't mention the drink which makes one so. In the next verses cited, the word which is often translated as "wine" or "intoxicants" is al-khamr, which is related to the verb "to ferment." This word could be used to describe other intoxicants such as beer, although wine is the most common understanding of the word.

Muslims interpret these verses in total to forbid any intoxicating substance -- whether it be wine, beer, gin, whiskey, or whatever. The result is the same, and the Qur'an outlines that it is the intoxication, which makes one forgetful of God and prayer, which is harmful. Over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like. The Prophet Muhammad also instructed his followers, at the time, to avoid any intoxicating substances -- (paraphrased) "if it intoxicates in a large amount, it is forbidden even in a small amount." For this reason, most observant Muslims avoid alcohol in any form, even small amounts that are sometimes used in cooking.

Contemporary pathologists and physicians have lately come to an absolute conclusion about intoxicants, and decided to warn people by pointing out the following facts:
[size=-1]
1) When many people enjoy the feeling when they have a drink, that feeling is a Drug Effect.[/size]


[size=-1]2) It is a nervous system depressant, much like an anesthetic, which, in sufficient quantity, can result in loss of consciousness.[/size]

[size=-1]3) It causes shrinking of the brain, and early senility.[/size]

[size=-1]4) It has a toxic effect on the peripheral nerves, the skeletal muscles, and the heart muscles.[/size]

[size=-1]5) It effects the digestive system, and the sexual system: it decreases active testosterone in men and inhibits the formations of testosterone.[/size]

[size=-1]6) It disturbs a person's quality of sleep, which is one reason a person may feel bad the next day after the night before.[/size]

[size=-1]7) It causes high blood pressure. Even regular use of modest amounts of alcohol, significantly increases the risk of having a hemorrhage in the brain causing a stroke. Heavy drinkers are 5 times as likely to have a hemorrhage stroke as non-drinkers.[/size]



Peace ...

 

[Katzpur]

It's really an interesting topic to debate.

As a matter of fact, before Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) was sent for human beings in order to spread Islam he was living among arabs while they were like animals in human forms at that time because they have no religion and they have nothing to worry about like ethics or morals.

Then, when prophet Mohamed(PBUH) started to spread Islam among his people they were drinking alcohol as any other nations at that time so he began to make rules for them but he didn't ordered them at once to stop drinking it but step by step because they used to it.

Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43).

Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219) "which proves that God didn't deny it's benfit but it's evil is more than it's benfit". This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)


In the first verse cited above, the word for "intoxicated" is sukara which is derived from the word "sugar" and means drunk or intoxicated. That verse doesn't mention the drink which makes one so. In the next verses cited, the word which is often translated as "wine" or "intoxicants" is al-khamr, which is related to the verb "to ferment." This word could be used to describe other intoxicants such as beer, although wine is the most common understanding of the word.

Muslims interpret these verses in total to forbid any intoxicating substance -- whether it be wine, beer, gin, whiskey, or whatever. The result is the same, and the Qur'an outlines that it is the intoxication, which makes one forgetful of God and prayer, which is harmful. Over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like. The Prophet Muhammad also instructed his followers, at the time, to avoid any intoxicating substances -- (paraphrased) "if it intoxicates in a large amount, it is forbidden even in a small amount." For this reason, most observant Muslims avoid alcohol in any form, even small amounts that are sometimes used in cooking.

Contemporary pathologists and physicians have lately come to an absolute conclusion about intoxicants, and decided to warn people by pointing out the following facts:
[size=-1]
1) When many people enjoy the feeling when they have a drink, that feeling is a Drug Effect.[/size]


[size=-1]2) It is a nervous system depressant, much like an anesthetic, which, in sufficient quantity, can result in loss of consciousness.[/size]

[size=-1]3) It causes shrinking of the brain, and early senility.[/size]

[size=-1]4) It has a toxic effect on the peripheral nerves, the skeletal muscles, and the heart muscles.[/size]

[size=-1]5) It effects the digestive system, and the sexual system: it decreases active testosterone in men and inhibits the formations of testosterone.[/size]

[size=-1]6) It disturbs a person's quality of sleep, which is one reason a person may feel bad the next day after the night before.[/size]

[size=-1]7) It causes high blood pressure. Even regular use of modest amounts of alcohol, significantly increases the risk of having a hemorrhage in the brain causing a stroke. Heavy drinkers are 5 times as likely to have a hemorrhage stroke as non-drinkers.[/size]



Peace ...

Now I have one more thing to add to my list of things my religion has in common with other religions!