alcholics anonymouis it a cult, religion, or a self help program?

[gseeker]

Alcoholics anonymous seems to be very popular and I've had people get in my face before when I unthinkingly called it a cult. What do you think, cult, religion, or self help or maybe you can define it better than that.

 

[Breathe]

Why would it be either a religion or cult?

 

[mycorrhiza]

Why would it be either a religion or cult?

I guess because the method used by AA is based on monotheistic spirituality. I'd still say that it's self-help, though.

 

[Levite]

Self-help. Way too many alcoholics are helped to get sober by AA for me to want to dismiss it.

That said, I will say that I have occasionally encountered AA members whose embrace of the tenets of the program is so zealous and absolute that I wonder if they have not simply replaced their alcohol addiction with an addiction to the program instead. But I think that's more a question of the individuals, not the program itself.

Seems pretty benign and open, to me.

 

[Revoltingest]

I want "All Of The Above".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Self-help. Way too many alcoholics are helped to get sober by AA for me to want to dismiss it.

IIRC, their own statistics are inflated, since they publish their success rate for people who have completed all twelve steps. People who leave partway through and go back to drinking aren't reflected in their success rate.

That said, I will say that I have occasionally encountered AA members whose embrace of the tenets of the program is so zealous and absolute that I wonder if they have not simply replaced their alcohol addiction with an addiction to the program instead. But I think that's more a question of the individuals, not the program itself.

Seems pretty benign and open, to me.

I think that AA probably does work for some people, and I think that in something like addiction recovery, it's good to have as many different options as possible. However, I worry about AA being marketed as the "default" option for addiction recovery, or 12-step programs being the only option available in many areas.

I'd really like to see non-religious addiction recovery programs like Secular Organizations for Sobriety be offered over a much wider area and for many more people to know that they're out there as an option.

 

[Quagmire]

I think it depends on what you do with it.

 

[Levite]

IIRC, their own statistics are inflated, since they publish their success rate for people who have completed all twelve steps. People who leave partway through and go back to drinking aren't reflected in their success rate.

I'll take your word for that. I wasn't really thinking of statistics, just the sheer number of recovering alcoholics I've met, and who my colleagues have met, in the course of pastoral work, who got sober through AA. As a matter of fact, I have a colleague who himself went through AA. And another colleague who runs a Jewish recovery institute in Los Angeles who went through a Jewish AA/NA program himself before going to rabbinical school and beginning to help others.

Whatever the precise statistics are or ought to be, it seems inarguable that there are quite a lot of alcoholics in recovery thanks to AA or the programs AA has inspired as a model than there would be without AA.

 

[fantome profane]

There is no evidence, other than anecdotal evidence, that AA has any positive effect in helping people with addiction to alcohol. That being said I see no major harm in it as long as it is voluntary.

I object to courts or even employers that require people to attend AA meetings. Because although I would not declare it a religion or a cult, it clearly does have features of both.

My vote for the poll is "none of the above"

 

[jasonwill2]

Alcoholics anonymous seems to be very popular and I've had people get in my face before when I unthinkingly called it a cult. What do you think, cult, religion, or self help or maybe you can define it better than that.

I think it's retarded that they require a belief in a higher power to help you. Perhaps that higher power is yourself? And really the "higher power" concept is just a way to externalize your own power into something that isn't self-conscious of it's own failures?

The power comes from within in my opinion, the gods are merely the inspiration.

 

[gseeker]

I think it's retarded that they require a belief in a higher power to help you. Perhaps that higher power is yourself? And really the "higher power" concept is just a way to externalize your own power into something that isn't self-conscious of it's own failures?

The power comes from within in my opinion, the gods are merely the inspiration.

Your higher power cannot be yourself.

 

[gseeker]

I'll take your word for that. I wasn't really thinking of statistics, just the sheer number of recovering alcoholics I've met, and who my colleagues have met, in the course of pastoral work, who got sober through AA. As a matter of fact, I have a colleague who himself went through AA. And another colleague who runs a Jewish recovery institute in Los Angeles who went through a Jewish AA/NA program himself before going to rabbinical school and beginning to help others.

Whatever the precise statistics are or ought to be, it seems inarguable that there are quite a lot of alcoholics in recovery thanks to AA or the programs AA has inspired as a model than there would be without AA.

There is no such thing as a recovering alcoholic in AA. Alcoholism is a incurable disease or as the book says, an allergic reaction.

 

[no-body]

It's a self help program with problems as any large institution has problems. I wouldn't call it a cult however. It helps some people and that is all that really matters. Though it's helpfulness does get inflated and if you have no money and a bad addiction it is pretty much your only option whether you agree with or not.

I don't understand why people get all huffy and go "well they're just trading one addiction for another" at least AA is a harmless addiction that isn't going to destroy their minds and bodies. People who prattle on about "moderation" and "will power" don't understand what an addict is.

 

[ChristineES]

I believe it to be self-help.

 

[jasonwill2]

Your higher power cannot be yourself.

In The Left Hand Path it most certainly is, I assure you of that. It can be a higher self. Some call it the Holy Guardian Angel if your more of a Thelmanite. Most just call it a higher self though. Not sure what Setians or Chaos Magicians call it though.

I call it the Mirror, the reflection of Ha-Satan himself imprinted in all life. It is an internal thing that we are all born with, and is not just our flesh/souls, but the very potential of what we can become. However mine is a bit more complex than a higher self, but it encompasses that as well.

 

[gseeker]

IIRC, their own statistics are inflated, since they publish their success rate for people who have completed all twelve steps. People who leave partway through and go back to drinking aren't reflected in their success rate.


I think that AA probably does work for some people, and I think that in something like addiction recovery, it's good to have as many different options as possible. However, I worry about AA being marketed as the "default" option for addiction recovery, or 12-step programs being the only option available in many areas.

I'd really like to see non-religious addiction recovery programs like Secular Organizations for Sobriety be offered over a much wider area and for many more people to know that they're out there as an option.

I agree, a secular AA program would be easier to swallow.

AA. You must believe in a higher power.
AA. That higher power must be benevolent.
AA. Claims that their way is the only way, try yo stop drinking on your own and you will fail.
AA. Confession and forgiveness are major tenants.
AA.believes that you must be involved in good works
AA.evangelism and witnessing are important.
So much of AA is similar to religious or cult like doctrine.

 

[gseeker]

In The Left Hand Path it most certainly is, I assure you of that. It can be a higher self. Some call it the Holy Guardian Angel if your more of a Thelmanite. Most just call it a higher self though. Not sure what Setians or Chaos Magicians call it though.

I call it the Mirror, the reflection of Ha-Satan himself imprinted in all life. It is an internal thing that we are all born with, and is not just our flesh/souls, but the very potential of what we can become. However mine is a bit more complex than a higher self, but it encompasses that as well.

I was referring to what AA teaches. You cannot be your higher power because yourself is what got you into alcoholism to began with. In their system yourself has already proven to be to weak to depend on.

 

[jasonwill2]

I was referring to what AA teaches. You cannot be your higher power because yourself is what got you into alcoholism to began with. In their system yourself has already proven to be to weak to depend on.

But you see, the higher self and the self are two different things.

If they won't allow my higher self to help me in AA, that is discrimination because my god, that higher power, is literally imprinted on my soul. This means that the higher power, in the context of overcoming, IS me. Without the realization that I got myself into it, and I can get myself out of it, it's useless.

This higher power stuff they are doing just sounds like empowerment via proxy.

 

[gseeker]

It's a self help program with problems as any large institution has problems. I wouldn't call it a cult however. It helps some people and that is all that really matters. Though it's helpfulness does get inflated and if you have no money and a bad addiction it is pretty much your only option whether you agree with or not.

I don't understand why people get all huffy and go "well they're just trading one addiction for another" at least AA is a harmless addiction that isn't going to destroy their minds and bodies. People who prattle on about "moderation" and "will power" don't understand what an addict is.

A harmless addiction? So the fact that the program becomes a persons entire life is harmless? The fact that a person lives their entire life thinking they are completely dependent on said system because they are unable to be cured and unable to help themselves is harmless?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A harmless addiction? So the fact that the program becomes a persons entire life is harmless? The fact that a person lives their entire life thinking they are completely dependent on said system because they are unable to be cured and unable to help themselves is harmless?

It's better than a life of addiction to alcohol or narcotics.

It's kinda like methadone: yeah, people on methadone are still addicts, but their addiction is a lot less harmful than it would be if they were taking heroin, and they're able to be functional and happy while leading productive lives.