"Alabama Christian Lobby Argues Classroom Yoga Would Violate Establishment Clause"

[Ponder This]

The moment of silence was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. I didn't bring up the moment of silence, others did. You and others and the Supreme court don't like the moment of silence because a Christian might be praying during that time. And woe is me,....we can't have that. But yet you and other atheists and pagans want the religious practice of yoga to be allowed in public schools. You are hypocrites all. And you are foolish to think others can't see through your bs.

No, let the parents vote. Let the state of Alabama vote on it. Actually they already have which is why yoga is illegal in the first place. But, no problem. I am willing to let the state of Alabama vote on it. Are you?

Good-Ole-Rebel

I pointed out the problems with the Supreme Court's ruling and the interpretation of it. I think moments of silence are good to have.
I don't know why you were trying to argue against moments of silence, if you are actually for them.

I agree parents should decide and HB 235 would give parents a chance to do that. A law that outright forbids yoga, does not give parents a choice. You seem to be against allowing yoga to be an elective and would rather decide for everyone! That is the opposite of allowing people a choice.

We've already seen an 84-17 Alabama vote for the bill. So the State of Alabama appears to think that yoga should be a choice. Just because they didn't want it however many years ago doesn't mean the same opinion holds now, obviously.

I am sorry that you are unhappy, but being unhappy doesn't improve your arguments.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I pointed out the problems with the Supreme Court's ruling and the interpretation of it. I think moments of silence are good to have.
I don't know why you were trying to argue against moments of silence, if you are actually for them.

I agree parents should decide and HB 235 would give parents a chance to do that. A law that outright forbids yoga, does not give parents a choice. You seem to be against allowing yoga to be an elective and would rather decide for everyone! That is the opposite of allowing people a choice.

We've already seen an 84-17 Alabama vote for the bill. So the State of Alabama appears to think that yoga should be a choice. Just because they didn't want it however many years ago doesn't mean the same opinion holds now, obviously.

I am sorry that you are unhappy, but being unhappy doesn't improve your arguments.

It doesn't matter what you think about the Supreme Courts ruling. That is the ruling. Just because you think it should be changed to have yoga to be allowed, doesn't matter.

Yoga is a religious exercise. Just as the Supreme Court would not allow a moment of silence for fear some Christian might use it to pray somewhere, so it shouldn't allow the religious exercise of yoga.

No, you don't agree that parents should decide. Parents have already decided and it is law that yoga is illegal. Now, if you want it to put it to a state wide vote, go ahead. I have no problem with that.

Do you have a problem with that?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Ponder This]

It doesn't matter what you think about the Supreme Courts ruling. That is the ruling. Just because you think it should be changed to have yoga to be allowed, doesn't matter.

Yoga is a religious exercise. Just as the Supreme Court would not allow a moment of silence for fear some Christian might use it to pray somewhere, so it shouldn't allow the religious exercise of yoga.

No, you don't agree that parents should decide. Parents have already decided and it is law that yoga is illegal. Now, if you want it to put it to a state wide vote, go ahead. I have no problem with that.

Do you have a problem with that?

Good-Ole-Rebel

I pointed out the difference between what I think and the ruling and even why it didn't matter to the question of yoga in HB 235 already. You drew a false equivalence.

Saying parents have already decided is not the same as saying, "let parents decide". Who can decide if it is "already decided'? No one can!
I don't have a problem with a statewide vote on HB 235, but you should know that the point of having a legislature is so that not every bill has to be voted on by every single person in the state. I would expect a state-wide vote in Alabama to follow the vote of their legislature in most cases and if not, then perhaps the voters in Alabama should consider electing different representatives. If you think the legislature is at fault, then perhaps you should reconsider your assertion that the previous law actually represented the interests of parents in the first place.
Moreover, what HB 235 does, that was not done by the previous law, is allow parents greater freedom to decide.

Do you have a problem with different families choosing different things for their children? Why do you insist that that all families must choose the same? That is not freedom; that is tyranny. And I denounce it as such. You want to tell other people that they may not learn yoga. You want a law Establishing your Religion.

 

[Yazata]

No, I am right. Yoga is a religious exercise.

It certainly was a religious exercise up until the early 20th century. It basically meant any Hindu religious practice. Religious ethics was Karma yoga. Devotion to Hindu deities was Bhakti yoga. Meditation (typically for salvific ends) was Raja yoga. And the physical exercises, associated with lots of unscientific stuff about prana, kundalini and life energies, was Hatha yoga.

The question today is how completely "yoga", as taught in the West, has been divorced from its long and explicitly religious history. The OP showed kids doing what looked like sitting meditation, which suggests that the yoga that they are being taught might not be entirely physical exercise.

The law preventing yoga is a good law.

I have no problem with it.

The thing that sets me off is hypocrisy. Those who want yoga introduced into schools seem to me to be the same sort of people who file lawsuits to try to overturn 'moments of silence for prayer or meditation' in those same schools.

How about letting the state of Alabama vote on it?

Imagine the uproar if there was a statewide vote on introducing ostensibly-secularized 'intelligent design' into the school curriculum somewhere (not necessarily science class).

Let the majority of parents decide.

They already can. There's nothing preventing parents from enrolling their little darlings in yoga classes outside of school. Or in 'ID' classes for that matter. Or even (horrors!) taking the kids to church.

So I guess that my opinion is that if we are going to keep ostensibly secularized quasi-Christian stuff out of the schools, we need to keep the ostensibly secular quasi-Hindu stuff out too, if only to be consistent.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I pointed out the difference between what I think and the ruling and even why it didn't matter to the question of yoga in HB 235 already. You drew a false equivalence.

Saying parents have already decided is not the same as saying, "let parents decide". Who can decide if it is "already decided'? No one can!
I don't have a problem with a statewide vote on HB 235, but you should know that the point of having a legislature is so that not every bill has to be voted on by every single person in the state. I would expect a state-wide vote in Alabama to follow the vote of their legislature in most cases and if not, then perhaps the voters in Alabama should consider electing different representatives. If you think the legislature is at fault, then perhaps you should reconsider your assertion that the previous law actually represented the interests of parents in the first place.
Moreover, what HB 235 does, that was not done by the previous law, is allow parents greater freedom to decide.

Do you have a problem with different families choosing different things for their children? Why do you insist that that all families must choose the same? That is not freedom; that is tyranny. And I denounce it as such. You want to tell other people that they may not learn yoga. You want a law Establishing your Religion.

I have a problem in allowing yoga, a religious exercise, to be taught in public schools when it already is illegal and in violation of the first amendment.

What HB235 does is bring yoga, a reliigious exercise into public schools. Different families can practice whatever they want for their children. Just not in public schools.

Forbidding yoga is not establishing my religion. It is keeping your religious exercise out of public schools. What a silly statement you make.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Ponder This]

I have a problem in allowing yoga, a religious exercise, to be taught in public schools when it already is illegal and in violation of the first amendment.

What HB235 does is bring yoga, a reliigious exercise into public schools. Different families can practice whatever they want for their children. Just not in public schools.

Forbidding yoga is not establishing my religion. It is keeping your religious exercise out of public schools. What a silly statement you make.

Good-Ole-Rebel

1. HB 235 would make yoga legal.
2. Yoga is not a religious exercise.

a. Even if it were, HB 235 strips it of any religious trappings.​

3. HB 235 would give parents a choice. The old law does not give parents a choice.
4. Exercise is a permissible school activity.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

1. HB 235 would make yoga legal.
2. Yoga is not a religious exercise.

a. Even if it were, HB 235 strips it of any religious trappings.​

3. HB 235 would give parents a choice. The old law does not give parents a choice.
4. Exercise is a permissible school activity.

1.) Yes I know. But that makes it a violation of the first amendment.
2.) Yoga is a religious exercise.
a.) HB235 does not change yoga as a religious exercise
3.) Parents don't make the choice concerning violations of the first amendment. The present law agrees with the first amendment.
4.) Yoga is not a permissable school activity. And we are talking about yoga.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Ponder This]

1.) Yes I know. But that makes it a violation of the first amendment.
2.) Yoga is a religious exercise.
a.) HB235 does not change yoga as a religious exercise
3.) Parents don't make the choice concerning violations of the first amendment. The present law agrees with the first amendment.
4.) Yoga is not a permissable school activity. And we are talking about yoga.

Good-Ole-Rebel

1. Then the legality is settled. Your statements about legality have been rebutted.
2. The falsity of your claim has been sufficiently argued by others. But it doesn't even matter if your claim is true because:

a. HB 235 has provisions which removes any religious trappings you or anyone else tries to put on it.​

3. HB 235 says it can only be offered as an elective with other elective options available. If your point is really that parents don't get a choice about whether something violates the first amendment or not, then your objection to parents not having a choice has been rebutted.

a. Establishment of Religion is not the reason the present law outlaws yoga. It outlaws yoga because of a scientific hypothesis that has since been debunked.​

4. Yoga is exercise. Exercise is permitted at schools. Washing your hands is also permitted at schools regardless of the fact that religions urge you to wash your hands. It would just as certainly be unjustified to outlaw washing your hands at school just because Islam says that you should wash your hands. Washing your hands is a religious exercise.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

1. Then the legality is settled. Your statements about legality have been rebutted.
2. The falsity of your claim has been sufficiently argued by others. But it doesn't even matter if your claim is true because:

a. HB 235 has provisions which removes any religious trappings you or anyone else tries to put on it.​

3. HB 235 says it can only be offered as an elective with other elective options available. If your point is really that parents don't get a choice about whether something violates the first amendment or not, then your objection to parents not having a choice has been rebutted.

a. Establishment of Religion is not the reason the present law outlaws yoga. It outlaws yoga because of a scientific hypothesis that has since been debunked.​

4. Yoga is exercise. Exercise is permitted at schools. Washing your hands is also permitted at schools regardless of the fact that religions urge you to wash your hands. It would just as certainly be unjustified to outlaw washing your hands at school just because Islam says that you should wash your hands. Washing your hands is a religious exercise.

1.) No they haven't. It is violation of the first amendment.
2.) No it hasn't. My claim is true. Yoga is a religious exercise
3.) My point is that yoga in public schools is a violation of the first amendment. Which it is.
4.) Yoga is a religious exercise. Exercise is permitted. Religious exercise is not.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[columbus]

Yoga is a religious exercise

You can repeat this all you want. Won't make it true, it just makes you look ignorant.

For some people, yoga is a spiritual exercise. But, here in the USA, there aren't many. For the overwhelming majority, it's physical exercise.

I think that this is all pettiness on your part. You can't force your religion on public school students, so you'll pretend that yoga is beyond your understanding. And pretend that you want the state to protect youngsters from yoga.
When really, you're just out in the dark gnashing your teeth.
Tom

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

You can repeat this all you want. Won't make it true, it just makes you look ignorant.

For some people, yoga is a spiritual exercise. But, here in the USA, there aren't many. For the overwhelming majority, it's physical exercise.

I think that this is all pettiness on your part. You can't force your religion on public school students, so you'll pretend that yoga is beyond your understanding. And pretend that you want the state to protect youngsters from yoga.
When really, you're just out in the dark gnashing your teeth.
Tom

Your forcing yoga on the state of Alabama schools.

Yoga is not beyond my understanding. It is a religious exercise.

The state of Alabama is already protected from it by law.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[columbus]

Your forcing yoga on the state of Alabama schools.

I'm nowhere close to Alabama. I'm not forcing anything on anyone.

It is a religious exercise.

Repeating this doesn't make it any more true.

A Ford Taurus is a car. But not all cars are Fords. How hard is that? Some yoga is religious, but not all yoga is religious.
Tom

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I'm nowhere close to Alabama. I'm not forcing anything on anyone.


Repeating this doesn't make it any more true.

A Ford Taurus is a car. But not all cars are Fords. How hard is that? Some yoga is religious, but not all yoga is religious.
Tom

I'm not close to Alabama either. So? Big deal.

I repeat it because your and others keep repeating also.

All yoga is religious exercise.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Ponder This]

1.) No they haven't. It is violation of the first amendment.
2.) No it hasn't. My claim is true. Yoga is a religious exercise
3.) My point is that yoga in public schools is a violation of the first amendment. Which it is.
4.) Yoga is a religious exercise. Exercise is permitted. Religious exercise is not.

I repeat it because your and others keep repeating also.

I see. You have no intention of actually considering the validity of your arguments - my bad for continuing to engage you. Go ahead and have the last word. Peace.

 

[columbus]

I repeat it because your and others keep repeating also.

All yoga is religious exercise.

But I don't keep repeating the no yoga is a religious exercise. I know that some is.
But, around here, it's mostly not.
A religious form of yoga, taught in public schools, I would also object to.
In fact, I'd be a bit suspicious. Because I know that some people practice it as a spiritual thing. But not much, because I also know Christian parents in Alabama wouldn't accept the religious aspects of it.

You are the one who keeps repeating the demonstrably false claim "All yoga is religious exercise".
Tom

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I see. You have no intention of actually considering the validity of your arguments - my bad for continuing to engage you. Go ahead and have the last word. Peace.

Yes, your bad.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

But I don't keep repeating the no yoga is a religious exercise. I know that some is.
But, around here, it's mostly not.
A religious form of yoga, taught in public schools, I would also object to.
In fact, I'd be a bit suspicious. Because I know that some people practice it as a spiritual thing. But not much, because I also know Christian parents in Alabama wouldn't accept the religious aspects of it.

You are the one who keeps repeating the demonstrably false claim "All yoga is religious exercise".
Tom

Yoga is religious exercise. Alabama is right in making it illegal to practice. They already don't accept it.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[columbus]

Yoga is religious exercise.

Do you understand the word "sometimes"? It's basic English.

But you don't seem to get that. Sometimes yoga is a religious exercise, sometimes not. "Sometimes" is not that hard to understand if you're looking for truth.

If you just want to be a petty religionist, feel free to keep doing so.
Tom

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Do you understand the word "sometimes"? It's basic English.

But you don't seem to get that. Sometimes yoga is a religious exercise, sometimes not. "Sometimes" is not that hard to understand if you're looking for truth.

If you just want to be a petty religionist, feel free to keep doing so.
Tom

Do you understand the word 'is'? Yoga is a religious exercise.

Good-Ole-Rebel