"Alabama Christian Lobby Argues Classroom Yoga Would Violate Establishment Clause"

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

You are wrong because, it doesn't matter if yoga is a religious exercise. You can keep repeating "yoga is a religious exercise; yoga should not be in schools" like a mantra all you like , but you aren't adding anything new to the discussion by doing so.

FYI, these are state laws (not federal laws) that are at issue.

And, yes, I like the idea of letting parents decide, which turns out to be another reason to support HB 235 over the previous law!

Peace.

The Constitution is Federal Law. And yoga is a religious exesrcise.

Then let it be the result of the State of Alabama voting.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

So is a moment of silence.
At least, it is for some people. Should schools be forbidden to allow public moments of silence, since some people do religious things like pray?
Tom

Who says?

In 1985 the Supreme Court struck down Alabama Law which allowed a moment of silence.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Heyo]

Who says?

In 1985 the Supreme Court struck down Alabama Law which allowed a moment of silence.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Source please?
If that is true, then yoga can be illegal with the same reasoning.
A moment of silence is a good tool to center oneself and prepare for learning - even if some use it for a silent prayer. I see no religious praxis in that either.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Source please?
If that is true, then yoga can be illegal with the same reasoning.
A moment of silence is a good tool to center oneself and prepare for learning - even if some use it for a silent prayer. I see no religious praxis in that either.

No, yoga is already illegal in Alabama.

Just google Wallace vs Jaffre 1985.

And since we are willing to let the State of Alabama vote on yoga, then we should revisit the moment of silence ruling and let them vote on that also. That way the parents in Alabama will be the determining factor. Right?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Heyo]

No, yoga is already illegal in Alabama.

Just google Wallace vs Jaffre 1985.

And since we are willing to let the State of Alabama vote on yoga, then we should revisit the moment of silence ruling and let them vote on that also. That way the parents in Alabama will be the determining factor. Right?

Good-Ole-Rebel

Interesting that that bill was introduced to prevent open prayer.
"Jaffree's complaint further alleged that two of his children had been subjected to various acts of religious indoctrination and that the defendant teachers had led their classes in saying certain prayers in unison on a daily basis; that as a result of not participating in the prayers his minor children had been exposed to ostracism from their peer group classmates; and that Jaffree had repeatedly but unsuccessfully requested that the prayers be stopped." - Wallace v. Jaffree - Wikipedia

Seems it is more important that students don't pray to the wrong god than that students aren't praying at all.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Interesting that that bill was introduced to prevent open prayer.
"Jaffree's complaint further alleged that two of his children had been subjected to various acts of religious indoctrination and that the defendant teachers had led their classes in saying certain prayers in unison on a daily basis; that as a result of not participating in the prayers his minor children had been exposed to ostracism from their peer group classmates; and that Jaffree had repeatedly but unsuccessfully requested that the prayers be stopped." - Wallace v. Jaffree - Wikipedia

Seems it is more important that students don't pray to the wrong god than that students aren't praying at all.

The point being the moment of silence was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

Interesting isn't it? The atheist's and pagans want to go around the law and slip in 'yoga' in public schools as not religious, though it is. Yet when they want to get rid of prayer in school, they do just the opposite. Hypocritical bs.

As I said, let the good people of Alabama vote. Let the parents of Alabama be able to say what they want in their schools. Right?

I mean, everyone was all for the parents deciding...correct?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Heyo]

As I said, let the good people of Alabama vote. Let the parents of Alabama be able to say what they want in their schools. Right?

Except when it is violating the constitution of the US.

I mean, everyone was all for the parents deciding...correct?

Not me. I think children have human rights - that have to be sometimes defended by the public against the parents.

 

[Ponder This]

The Constitution is Federal Law. And yoga is a religious exesrcise.

Then let it be the result of the State of Alabama voting.

Good-Ole-Rebel

The bill does not violate federal law.

Moreover, The Alabama House of Representatives voted 84-17 for the bill.

 

[Riders]

.


It was just a matter of time.

"The Alabama State Board of Education says it’s part of a prohibition on “the use of hypnosis and dissociative mental states” that also covers now-common practices like guided imagery and meditation. (It can, however, be taught in high school physical education classes as long as nobody uses the y-word.)

The concerns represented by the current state of the law are outdated. Meditative practices like mindfulness and guided imagery have been studied intensively and found to offer plenty of benefits in areas like stress-reduction, focus, and self-awareness. Yoga provides all this and more, helping children hone developing physical skills like balance, endurance, flexibility, and strength.

So State Rep. Jeremy Gray, a Democrat, has introduced HB 235 to reverse the ban on yoga in particular.

Since the bill’s introduction in February, a local Christian advocacy group has come forward in opposition, arguing — get this — that yoga in schools would violate the Establishment Clause.

The charge against HB 235 is being led by Dr. Joe Godfrey, executive director of Alabama Citizens’ Action Program (ALCAP), a local group lobbying for evangelical Christians’ interests in the legislature.

Godfrey admits that his own daughter laughed at his concerns, but he remains adamant that yoga is a religious practice that must not be taught in the classroom:

You can’t separate the exercises from the religious meditation aspect of it. This is Hinduism, straight up. What you’re doing is blatantly teaching a religious exercise that would violate the Establishment Clause.​

I promise you no student has ever walked out of a yoga class pledging allegiance to Shiva or Vishnu.

The argument is laughable for other reasons. Good News Clubs evangelizing children? Courses on Bible literacy? School-sponsored baptism? All fine and dandy, according to these people.

A secularized version of a historically Hindu practice, presented without proselytizing? Not acceptable.

Representatives on both sides of the aisle say they don’t accept Godfrey’s reasoning. As Republican State Rep. Danny Garrett points out, Christianity has adapted plenty of practices that used to belong to other religions — Christmas trees, for instance, or the Easter bunny — without endorsing those religions’ beliefs. And some local churches are already doing the same with yoga, offering a Christian version of the practice alongside social gatherings and Bible studies."
source

.​

It is interesting that many Christians now use the term being present. That is all it is teaching students to be present while at school.Everyone also uses the term being mindful, just with it being grounded that is all it is.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Except when it is violating the constitution of the US.

Not me. I think children have human rights - that have to be sometimes defended by the public against the parents.

It doesn't violate the Constitution.

Go back to your 'moment of silence' decision forced on Alabama. Does that violate the Constitution?

Oh, now we see. It is not the parents decision, as it was made out to be first in this thread. It is the decision of others who 'know better'. It is the decision of a minority who want to force their religious beliefs on the community of Christians.

Your scared of the vote. You're are one of those pagan atheist hypocrites I mentioned earlier.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

The bill does not violate federal law.

Moreover, The Alabama House of Representatives voted 84-17 for the bill.

Of course it violates Federal Law as I have showed.

Yoga is a religious exercise.

How can Federal Law do away with a moment of silence and then allow yoga?

What does it matter what the Alabama House voted on? That didn't matter when the moment of silence was removed. Yoga is already illegal in Alabama. Does that matter?

Does the Alabama House approval mean it is law?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Riders]

The point being the moment of silence was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

Interesting isn't it? The atheist's and pagans want to go around the law and slip in 'yoga' in public schools as not religious, though it is. Yet when they want to get rid of prayer in school, they do just the opposite. Hypocritical bs.

As I said, let the good people of Alabama vote. Let the parents of Alabama be able to say what they want in their schools. Right?

I mean, everyone was all for the parents deciding...correct?

Good-Ole-Rebel

There is a problem Rebel. I can be at college if I were young I could be at a high school I could be waiting for a bus, and if I decide to use meditation and concentrated on one thing, no one will ever ever ever ever ever know that
I am meditating. You can not tell by looking at me. I just have to sit down get in one spot and not talking, and I can do it. I could do it in class. The law can not keep people from saying prayers in their head and meditating quietly.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

There is a problem Rebel. I can be at college if I were young I could be at a high school I could be waiting for a bus, and if I decide to use meditation and concentrated on one thing, no one will ever ever ever ever ever know that
I am meditating. You can not tell by looking at me. I just have to sit down get in one spot and not talking, and I can do it. I could do it in class. The law can not keep people from saying prayers in their head and meditating quietly.

That's right. But the Law can keep the moment of silence out of Alabama because someone might be praying.

Thus the Law must keep the religious exercise of yoga out of Alabama, so no one might be using it for what it was intended for.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Riders]

If you do physical Yoga it is good old exercise. what's wrong with that?

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

If you do physical Yoga it is good old exercise. what's wrong with that?

What's wrong with a moment of silence?

As to what is wrong with yoga, see post # (147). It is a religious exercise.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[columbus]

What's wrong with a moment of silence?

Honestly, I had no idea that a moment of silence was illegal, much less unconstitutional.
In fact, I doubt that it's true.

Knowing how you operate, I think that what happened was that substituting a moment of silence, for nonchristians, for public prayer was deemed unconstitutional. Teachers who wanted to lead their class in Christian prayer couldn't get around the Constitution by sticking other kids in a corner for "a moment of silence".
That's not the same as declaring "moment of silence" unconstitutional. It's declaring it unconstitutional to single out kids who don't want to participate in Christian prayer.

You and I didn't just meet. I don't trust you, because I know you too well. You are convinced that all yoga exercise is religious. I know you're wrong about that. So, I don't believe you will accurately describe other legal/religious issues.
Tom

 

[Ponder This]

Of course it violates Federal Law as I have showed.

Yoga is a religious exercise.

How can Federal Law do away with a moment of silence and then allow yoga?

What does it matter what the Alabama House voted on? That didn't matter when the moment of silence was removed. Yoga is already illegal in Alabama. Does that matter?

Does the Alabama House approval mean it is law?

Good-Ole-Rebel

Indeed, they shouldn't do away with moments of silence.

I assume you are referring to Wallace vs Jaffree?
However, there are problems with relying the Wallace vs Jaffree, partly because other cases were amalgamated into it and it addressed Alabama laws allowing a moment of silence, voluntary prayer, AND teacher led prayer. So it was not a ruling solely on moments of silence.
Moreover, in Wallace vs Jaffree the Supreme Court was essentially ruling against the faulty reasoning of the Federal District Court. The Federal District Court actually had the audacity to claim that the Establishment Clause did not prohibit state officials from establishing a religion!!!!!! So the ruling of the Supreme Court is not surprising. But the ruling definitely over-stepped its bounds when it said that all laws must have a secular purpose. Laws which uphold Free Exercise of religion are constitutional and do not serve an obvious secular purpose. So it is not just a poor test; it is a bad test.
Yet, even so, yoga does have a secular purpose. So HB 235 even passes this test!

As for the Alabama House vote, you said, "let it be the result of the State of Alabama voting." Well... they have! I think the addition of yoga will meet little resistance in becoming law. Do you think someone will try to take it to the courts?

In mean time, if you are worried that yoga is from Satan, then you better avoid stretching your arms in the morning when you wake up! Because, the "Hindu gods" are watching and they will be very pleased if you stretch your arms. It is known.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Honestly, I had no idea that a moment of silence was illegal, much less unconstitutional.
In fact, I doubt that it's true.

Knowing how you operate, I think that what happened was that substituting a moment of silence, for nonchristians, for public prayer was deemed unconstitutional. Teachers who wanted to lead their class in Christian prayer couldn't get around the Constitution by sticking other kids in a corner for "a moment of silence".
That's not the same as declaring "moment of silence" unconstitutional. It's declaring it unconstitutional to single out kids who don't want to participate in Christian prayer.

You and I didn't just meet. I don't trust you, because I know you too well. You are convinced that all yoga exercise is religious. I know you're wrong about that. So, I don't believe you will accurately describe other legal/religious issues.
Tom

The moment of silence in Alabama was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. You don't have to believe it. I don't care. Any one can look it up. I'm not the one that brought up a moment of silence in the first place.

Yoga is a religious exercise. You can look that up too. I have already provided proof. And it is already illegal in Alabama to be taught in public schools.

I don't know you from Adam.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Indeed, they shouldn't do away with moments of silence.

I assume you are referring to Wallace vs Jaffree?
However, there are problems with relying the Wallace vs Jaffree, partly because other cases were amalgamated into it and it addressed Alabama laws allowing a moment of silence, voluntary prayer, AND teacher led prayer. So it was not a ruling solely on moments of silence.
Moreover, in Wallace vs Jaffree the Supreme Court was essentially ruling against the faulty reasoning of the Federal District Court. The Federal District Court actually had the audacity to claim that the Establishment Clause did not prohibit state officials from establishing a religion!!!!!! So the ruling of the Supreme Court is not surprising. But the ruling definitely over-stepped its bounds when it said that all laws must have a secular purpose. Laws which uphold Free Exercise of religion are constitutional and do not serve an obvious secular purpose. So it is not just a poor test; it is a bad test.
Yet, even so, yoga does have a secular purpose. So HB 235 even passes this test!

As for the Alabama House vote, you said, "let it be the result of the State of Alabama voting." Well... they have! I think the addition of yoga will meet little resistance in becoming law. Do you think someone will try to take it to the courts?

In mean time, if you are worried that yoga is from Satan, then you better avoid stretching your arms in the morning when you wake up! Because, the "Hindu gods" are watching and they will be very pleased if you stretch your arms. It is known.

The moment of silence was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. I didn't bring up the moment of silence, others did. You and others and the Supreme court don't like the moment of silence because a Christian might be praying during that time. And woe is me,....we can't have that. But yet you and other atheists and pagans want the religious practice of yoga to be allowed in public schools. You are hypocrites all. And you are foolish to think others can't see through your bs.

No, let the parents vote. Let the state of Alabama vote on it. Actually they already have which is why yoga is illegal in the first place. But, no problem. I am willing to let the state of Alabama vote on it. Are you?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

@Ponder This

Are you?

Good-Ole-Rebel