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Ahmadiyya DIR?

Do you support an Ahmadiyya Muslim DIR?

  • I am an Ahmadiyya Muslim, and I support a DIR in the Abrahamic DIR

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I am an Ahmadiyya Muslim, and I do not support a separate DIR

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    37
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Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Do you support the creation of an Ahmadiyya DIR here?

If you do, where do you want it:

As a subset of the Islam DIR, on the same level as Sunni DIR and Shia DIR
Or as its own DIR under Abrahamic DIR, so it would be on a similar level to Islam DIR?

Please choose in the poll.
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
I voted i think the Amhadiiya community deserve a spot for there own like Shia's, Sunnis and let them decide where.
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
I have just read that in 1914 (according to what i remember) the Ahmadyia community split into two...

According to what I read the differences between the two split groups are so severe...

I have no deep knowledge about Ahmadiya...
But is there One Ahmadiya or Two?
 

Rational_Mind

Ahmadi Muslim
I have just read that in 1914 (according to what i remember) the Ahmadyia community split into two...

According to what I read the differences between the two split groups are so severe...

I have no deep knowledge about Ahmadiya...
But is there One Ahmadiya or Two?

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Truth-about-the-Split.pdf

Basically after accepting the first Khilafat of Hazrat Maulvi Nurud-Din Sahib (ra) a group of members of the Jamat of the Promised Messiah (as) rejected the second Khilafat of Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad (ra). Seperated and labelled themselves as the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement over rejection of Khilafat. They changed their position on the status of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) to only to mujaddid only after separation which is questionably to better integrate with mainstream Islam.

You can read both sides of the argument. It is pretty much easily available online.

Here is the Lahore Ahmadiyya Position on whom they label like other Muslims as the "Qadiani".
Qadiani Beliefs Refuted @ aaiil.org

Please feel free to research as it would be reasonable to expect that I could be biased as an Ahmadi Muslim who has done bait at the hands of the Khalifa tul Masih. I am sure you will discover the truth as this is really straight forward.
 
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SageTree

Spiritual Friend
Premium Member
  • I chose in the Abrahamic DIR because it is.

    And I would further say it's okay with me that they are in the Islamic DIR.

    However I don't want to tell Muslim members of any sort who is and isn't in their community,
    or where their movement should be placed within the larger tradition...

    Just as I wouldn't tell any other tradition here, that I wasn't fully part of, what to do.

    My hope is that the folks within the Islamic community at large here will be opened minded,
    perhaps setting aside personal feelings of for/against in the hope and for sake of Unity and meeting on shared values.

    What I mean to say is lets not let our past destroy our future.





  • One argument or dispute that comes to mind is the Messianic Judaism tradition here on the boards.
    Some seek their root religion, while others seek the prophecy fulfilled side of the history,
    while even others yet want to be their own thing completely.

I wish that in the end we could all just get together, ya know?
But perhaps for now I'll just have to be contented with all of us least claiming common ancestry in Abraham.


Respectfully,
SageTree
 

seeking4truth

Active Member
It's easy to learn more about Ahmadiyya Muslim interpretation of Islam through their website(*edit*), their satelite tv station (mtainternational) or through youtube where you can also find many opposong views.

I became an Ahmadi Muslim 40 years ago and am constantly stimulated by the variety and scope of discussion it raises.
 
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Bismillah

Submit
I don't support an Ahmadiyya DIR within the Islam DIR. I don't have a problem with an Ahmadiyya poll within the Abrahamic DIR. I think the best way to answer your question is to see how internationally Muslims view Ahmadiyyas, the view is pretty united, and then create a DIR in accordance to that. From any basic definition Ahmaddiyas don't fit the traditional definition of Muslim and it isn't the right of the non-Muslim to decide who is and isn't a Muslim just as it isn't a right of mine to tell a Christian who is and isn't a Christian.
 
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Brinne

Active Member
I've seen/heard many Imams of the Ahmadiyya sect say they it is just as much Islam as Sunnis are Shi'ites are. Mormons are considered Christians so I don't see why the Ahmadiyya Sect wouldn't be considered Muslim on these forums.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How do we really determine which group belongs to Islam and which doesn't?
 

Rational_Mind

Ahmadi Muslim
How do we really determine which group belongs to Islam and which doesn't?

Only by trying to become God. I know you take great caution in not making such a mistake. Happy to find good righteous Muslims on RD. Unfortunately these days takfir has become the topic of the day. Only Allah knows what is in the heart. This is clearly put forth by the Hadith I posted. If the Sahaba couldn't make such a decision when one recited the kalima even during war then how can anyone today. Can you imagine the risk of somebody intentionally reciting it out of fear and attempt sabotage. Yet the Holy Prophet (saw) still said to leave judgement to Allah and offer him protection. Unfortunately takfir is raised against peaceful people who are not engaging in any war and recite the Kalima.
 

Marco19

Researcher
i think it's not fair to ask the others where should we add x or y, it should be the decision of the followers of x or y to choose where they belong to.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Only by trying to become God. I know you take great caution in not making such a mistake. Happy to find good righteous Muslims on RD. Unfortunately these days takfir has become the topic of the day. Only Allah knows what is in the heart. This is clearly put forth by the Hadith I posted. If the Sahaba couldn't make such a decision when one recited the kalima even during war then how can anyone today. Can you imagine the risk of somebody intentionally reciting it out of fear and attempt sabotage. Yet the Holy Prophet (saw) still said to leave judgement to Allah and offer him protection. Unfortunately takfir is raised against peaceful people who are not engaging in any war and recite the Kalima.

Takfir has nothing to do with being peaceful or not. Are you saying that any peaceful person is not kafir by default even if he wasn't adhering to the basic teachings of Islam?
 

Rational_Mind

Ahmadi Muslim
Takfir has nothing to do with being peaceful or not. Are you saying that any peaceful person is not kafir by default even if he wasn't adhering to the basic teachings of Islam?

That is not what I said. Please read again carefully. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. The point was peaceful people not in a state of war recite the Kalima and some people today still manage to call them Kafirs.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
MOD POST

The DIR subforums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone.
DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith.
The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal and/or thread closure.



 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Guys, if you want to argue, take it to One-on-One debates, please. This is in a DIR and is for the purposes of deciding something, not for you to have your battles or make petty jabs at one another.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That is not what I said. Please read again carefully. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. The point was peaceful people not in a state of war recite the Kalima and some people today still manage to call them Kafirs.

No point of saying the kalimah if someone abandoned a clear cut issue in Islam. It's in the same sense when Abu Bakar fought those who refused to pay the Zakat after the death of Prophet Mohamed.

Ridda wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some may like to interpret the events as to prove that those who refused Zakat weren't peaceful but they started a war, killed Muslims, etc but that was not the case. It's quiet the contrary, it was Abu Baker who started to fight them for refusing to pay the Zakat which was a deceleration of disbelief in their part--those who denied Zakat--a major aspect of Islam and one of it's pillars which one can't be a Muslim without it.

This is a clear example why the Kalimah is not enough if some major aspects of Islam were denied.

If Abu Bakar was still alive today, he wouldn't hesitate to fight anyone who claim prophethood after Prophet Mohamed peace be upon him.
 

Rational_Mind

Ahmadi Muslim
If Abu Bakar was still alive today, he wouldn't hesitate to fight anyone who claim prophethood after Prophet Mohamed peace be upon him.

That is just speculation. How do you know if he would have done as you believe? Moreover there has been no disagreement in the 5 pillars or the six fundamental beliefs. Last point to make is that people claimed Prophethood in the life of the Holy Prophet (saw), no harm or war came upon them for this very reason while the Holy Prophet (saw) was alive. So you have some confusion. We should take the discussion elsewhere.

If we head to the Quran I can show you the contrary to your view. If we stay in the Quran then every layman can understand and there is no doubt about authenticity.

Like I said before, we would have to take this elsewhere.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That is just speculation. How do you know if he would have done as you believe? Moreover there has been no disagreement in the 5 pillars or the six fundamental beliefs. Last point to make is that people claimed Prophethood in the life of the Holy Prophet (saw), no harm or war came upon them for this very reason while the Holy Prophet (saw) was alive. So you have some confusion. We should take the discussion elsewhere.

If we head to the Quran I can show you the contrary to your view. If we stay in the Quran then every layman can understand and there is no doubt about authenticity.

Like I said before, we would have to take this elsewhere.

I prefer that we take this discussion somewhere else as well. I hope you will be able to respond to the following links somewhere else. I would really apperciate it.

http://www.islamawareness.net/Deviant/Qadiyani/qadiyanism2.html

http://www.islamawareness.net/Deviant/Qadiyani/balogun.html
 
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