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Agnosticism vs. Atheism

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by FerventGodSeeker, Apr 24, 2006.

  1. Opethian

    Opethian Active Member

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    I'm a strong atheist (or whatever they call it).

    I'm 100% sure that there is no god for a multitude of reasons. Obviously I can't prove it, as no one can. The reasons I give here are just the ones I can come up with at the time, but there are many, many more.

    1. Absence of free will. Since all the evidence (Biochemistry, Thermodynamics, Atanomy, etc...) points to there not being free will, the whole heaven/hell story becomes meaningless, since you're supposed to go to hell or heaven based on the decisions you make in your life. From what I've seen, it should be theoretically (not practically by us, but god, being da man ;) and all-powerful and stuff, should certainly be able to do this) possible to determine (up to a certain proximity, seen the Heisenberg uncertainty, although I doubt this has much impact on something as huge as a human body, compared to the particles subject to the uncertainty) the entire life of a person. Since god is supposed to have made us, he should be able to predetermine if we would end up in hell or heaven based on the predicted way we would live our life, so there is no point to the whole heaven/hell story at all anymore.

    2. God was made by man. Man invented god to be able to explain things they couldn't explain before, like lightning, fire, etc... in the beginning. Since god's invention, the reason he was worshipped has changed all the time, but the fact remains that he was invented by man. The funny thing is that through history, many of the things first ascribed as being caused by god have been scientifically explained, and this is still happening. This is referred to as the god of the gaps. And the gaps keep getting smaller and smaller. If we go to the limit, time to infinity in this situation, we will end up with nothing remaining to be left explained by god.

    3. It has become obvious to me that most people believe in god, not because the evidence points to there being a god, but just because they want to believe in god. It may be a bit stupid but I hold truth higher than increased happiness caused by self-deception. Intellectual honesty is key here.

    4. To me, believing in god is the easy way out. It's just shoving the problem aside and putting an imaginary answer in the place. I don't want to be like that. Even if I can't ever explain something in my lifetime, I'll be happier knowing that I tried doing it the accurate and right way, than to have just given up and having made something up that's supposed to explain it, but in all actuality is way too vague and misleading.

    5. There is not one single piece of well-analysed evidence that points to there being a god. Things that cannot yet be explained by science at this moment are NOT evidence for god. They are only reasons to continue scientific research, as the past has proven that these things will eventually be explained by science, as it advances.
     
  2. mr.guy

    mr.guy crapsack

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    Isn't that neat! How does Thermodynamics contribute to the dissolution of free will?
     
  3. Opethian

    Opethian Active Member

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    Because, together with other parts of Physics, it describes how particles move and react to different conditions, and shows that these particles follow clear laws.
     
  4. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Yes, and the Uncertainty Principle is one of those laws.

    And while the laws may be clear, it does not follow that everything is predictable.

    Determinism in physics died a while ago.
     
  5. mr.guy

    mr.guy crapsack

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    And I thought that was kinetic molecular theory...
     
  6. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Brownian motion doesn't just occur in lavatories.
     
  7. mr.guy

    mr.guy crapsack

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    Not when i'm on a drunken rampage, it don't!
     
  8. Opethian

    Opethian Active Member

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    Not on the level of the particles themselves, but on the schale of humans I'm pretty sure it's possible to predict their lives with a certain accuracy.
     
  9. mr.guy

    mr.guy crapsack

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    Precisely at what scale does matter become most prone to "certain" predictability via thermodynamics?
     
  10. Radar

    Radar Active Member

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    I am agnostic with an atheist view. Although there is no definative proof either way, atheist have more actual proof on their side so I side with them. Plus their way of thinking is more rational. It seems to me that religion is just a fairy tail for adults and a crutch for the weak minded.
     
  11. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    I'd like to know how they prove a negative.
     
  12. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Let me know when that gets published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
     
  13. Opethian

    Opethian Active Member

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    When I say possible I mean theoretically possible. Not practically. We don't know enough about the human body yet to set up a mathematical equation for how it reacts upon its environment and how our consciousness exactly works. But, everything points towards it becoming possible one day, if we don't kill eachother before we have advanced enough.
     
  14. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Ah, ok, that's much clearer. Would it be fair to say then, that at this point in scientific knowledge, your pov is more like a belief?
     
  15. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    That you're a Mormon? :D
     
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