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Featured Agnosticism and Death

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by Unveiled Artist, Aug 4, 2018.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Hmm. Can one be agnostic about death as he is agnostic about god?

    For example, I am generalizing on purpose, when an agnostic says nothing is know; nothing can be concluded as true one way or another, one hundred pecent, does that logic only involve god or everything in life?

    Im not agnostic; so, I find it interesting in relations to god because I am an atheist (or technically gnostic about god), but my background is besides the point.

    Everyone believes physical death is once hundred percent true. We base our facts on assumptions that everyone who got to a certain age, if not died for other causes, die of old age. Since we know they die, we will too.

    But if you are agnostic, these things cant be said true either way. Can you really predict your future state based on 99.9 percent evidence that other people die? Do you know your condition that well to assume you will die as we believe so with supposed a hundred percent certainty?

    Is an agnostic only agnostic on supernatural things or can he take that logic and apply it to all aspects of life, death included?
     
  2. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Absolute certainty on any topic is impossible but, on some topics, one might say "I'm certain" which should be taken as "I'm not going to be picky about using the word certainty." I'm certain I'll die.

    And, I'm certain that the writers of the Bible were not divinely inspired and that the God they portrayed doesn't exist. However, for reasons too complex to explain here, I think there is pretty good possibility that a Loving Creator exists therefore I'd label myself agnostic on that score.
     
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  3. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I am agnostic about death. Atheist about the existence of any God, but perhaps a creative force exists. I think that people only know things in degrees, and everything that exists is never going to be fully known.

    Most everything supernatural i reject. Although the quantum world defies physical explanation. Also everything is beyond explanation. The things people know will never get at the true nature of reality. One can know the world extrinsically, but never intrinsically.

    But i would never forfeit the attempt to know reality better, because knowledge always progresses. Every way you slice it you can always learn from reality.
     
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  4. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Every human living must face the fact of a natural death. Why would you think that agnostics should be different? Why would any human not recognize the fate of natural death.regardless of what they believe?
     
  5. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    The fact is, we cannot know anything about the physical world with absolute certainty. The only things that we can know with absolute certainty are within the realm of mathematics and logic. I can know that a married bachelor cannot exist. I can know that a square circle cannot exist. Beyond this realm of logic, there is no such thing as certainty in the rigorous sense.
     
  6. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    If you believe death is the end of all existence. then God means nothing, God is faith that there is more. It;s a choice.
     
  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Actually, this isnt a supernatural god question.

    In the physical life (not spiritual or supernatural) we will die. We all say we know this for absolute certainty or fact . Yet, we dont know everything. Sometimes we can take things for granted in this life.

    In respects to god, the logic behind agnosticism is that a person will not say yes or no about whats true and whats not as one hundred percent one way or another. They leave a room for doubt.

    Can you apply that same logic with god or do you feel we take for granted our physical body will die one hundred percent certain even though there is a small change this isnt true (agnositc)?
     
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  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    God aside, are you one hundred pecept certain (gnostic to the topic) or do you leave room by not claiming either way you will die or not (agnostic)?

    Do you feel agnosticism can apply to physical life or just supernatural without respects to any religion?
     
    #8 Unveiled Artist, Aug 4, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Are you agnostic about death the physical body?

    If so, do explain.

    If not, do you think you can be agnostic about X topic but not for Y; whats the difference using the same logic?
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    We can apply this question with mathematics. Like death, we know two and two is four. Thats a given. Yet, we take it for granted that it will always be four just because it was and is now. Its an extreme view of taking things for granted. While you may not think its possible for any methematic thing to change, think about the agnostic position. Do you know that much about life that you can judge whether the laws of physics, rather, will always be the way it is during our time period?
     
    #10 Unveiled Artist, Aug 4, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  11. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Death is the end. But my question was can one be agnostic about the physical death (god aside) or is that the only thing in this topic one is certain of as an agnostic but other things dont qualify to claim one hundred percent certainty.
     
  12. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I am agnostic about death. The physical body is for sure temporary. But i always had the sense that i am not the body of me. My feelings tell me that this life is it. My mind tells me that that dont have to be true. The reason is consciousness, and quantum entanglement. I cant find a physical reason why these two things exist the way they do. So i am agnostic about it.

    But that is topic x. Topic y is God and the supernatural. I simply find no evidence that any such things exist. Life exists in a brutely indifferent way. Geology is violent, life is desparate survival but for the ingenuity of people. Existence is clearly not made for life. So no agnosticism here for me.

    So my agnosticism for x is that intelligence may have always existed on the fringes of reality, and perhaps a creative force is a fringe part of reality, and has always been.

    For y, no such agnosticism exists. The difference is all in the evidence, and the lack of evidence. And the convincing nature of experiential nature.

    I always resist ideologies about naturalism and religion. I think agnosticism is a natural default position to have. But certainly not for everything.
     
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  13. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Quite clearly, without God you have nothing to looks forward to. And that's just what you believe.
     
  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Thats messed up. I know I like challenging conversations; but, not to the point of saying I have nothing to look forward to. You dont even know what I even believe :confused: Sounds like a cop out.

    The question is about agnosticism and death. My view of any god is totally irrelevant.
     
  15. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    That's fine. Whatever you believe. You have to "live" with it.
     
  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Thank you. I could never understand conscousness. The only way it came to my attention was when I went to outpatient surgery and I told the doctors to give me general anesthesia. My consciousness was knocked out (I wasnt aware) but my body was not.

    So, that told me consciousness is dependent on brain functioning. If not, how can consciousness be affected just because anethesia cut off pain sensors in the brain and nerves.

    I read they are still studying about consciousness and anethesia. While it seems common sense to me, since Im not a scientist, Im probably missing a variable or two. I can see why youd be agnostic over that. I dont know if we see consciousness the same way.

    The latter with the supernatural, I guess Im indifferent in that. With god, Im totally atheist and gnostic. With other spirtual experiences, Im not. So, I can see why the logic between the two dont match in different areas.

    Thanks. Came to mind earlier while taking a walk. Interesting really.
     
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  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Whats that all about??
     
  18. Dell

    Dell Asteroid insurance?

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    Your view or definition of an agnostic isn't how most proclaimed agnostics see themselves. It's not that nothing cant be known, it's what is not completely known that leaves room for exceptions for possibilities. The belief that God is the creator or cause of the universe, logically would be proven false if all time and matter had started only at the big bang. But if our universe is part of a multiverse then time becomes more eternal like, we simply dont know what has happened beyond. Something like a God could possibly exist that caused the big bang, and life. Most Agnostics are Atheists to the definition of the Deity God defined by the bible.
     
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  19. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus Contradiction, irrationality and disorder

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    As with a lot of things, I don't definitively believe anything but I have my suspicions
     
  20. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    I am agnostic concerning things for which the evidence is nonexistent or extremely weak. That would include supernatural stuff like God and afterlife.
    But not death, the evidence for physical death is overwhelming and has never been credibly questioned.

    What the future will bring, in terms of increasing human lifespans remains to be seen. But death is inevitable.
    Tom
     
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