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Age of Hazrat Aisha was not 6 or 9 at the time of her marriage with Prophet of Islam (sa)

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Peace be on all.
It is Eid time for Muslims. Such a topic is out of time.
But due to a post here in RF, It is felt to correct a misunderstanding about above matter.
Why it is being ignored the there are other mentions present about the age of (Hazrat) Aisha. Six year thing is not a mark engraved on a stone, it is not mentioned in Quran.

"" .....several historical events and Ahadith narrations demonstrate that Hadhrat Ayesha was likely 15-16, or as old as 19-20 at the time of her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. For example, Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad took place one year after Hijrah (emigration to Medina), or around 624 A.D. She was the daughter of Hadhrat Abu Bakr. Tabari reports, “All four of [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives—the names of whom we have already mentioned—during the pre-Islamic period [i.e. pre-610 A.D.].”[14] Therefore, even if Hadhrat Ayesha were born in 609 A.D., only a year before Prophet Muhammad claimed prophethood, she would be roughly 14 at the time of emigration to Medina in 623, and therefore no less than 15 at the time of her marriage to Prophet Muhammad. Both are a far cry from the age of six that Wilders’ asserts. Likewise, most historians report that Hadhrat Asmara, Hadhrat Ayesha’s elder sister, was ten years her senior.[15] The books, “Tahzibut Tahzib” and “Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nihayah,” both report that Hadhrat Asma died at the age of 100, in 73 A.H. or 695 A.D.[16] This means that Hadhrat Asmara must have been no younger than 27 at the time of emigration. Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad was in 1 A.H. when Asma was 28.This means that at a minimum, Hadhrat Ayesha was 18 upon her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. The above examples are not exhaustive. Several other authentic Hadith and well-recorded events discredit allegations that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was six.

Ref:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage | Muhammad Fact Check

May Allah bless her soul richly. Aameen
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Peace be on all.
It is Eid time for Muslims. Such a topic is out of time.
But due to a post here in RF, It is felt to correct a misunderstanding about above matter.
Why it is being ignored the there are other mentions present about the age of (Hazrat) Aisha. Six year thing is not a mark engraved on a stone, it is not mentioned in Quran.

"" .....several historical events and Ahadith narrations demonstrate that Hadhrat Ayesha was likely 15-16, or as old as 19-20 at the time of her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. For example, Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad took place one year after Hijrah (emigration to Medina), or around 624 A.D. She was the daughter of Hadhrat Abu Bakr. Tabari reports, “All four of [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives—the names of whom we have already mentioned—during the pre-Islamic period [i.e. pre-610 A.D.].”[14] Therefore, even if Hadhrat Ayesha were born in 609 A.D., only a year before Prophet Muhammad claimed prophethood, she would be roughly 14 at the time of emigration to Medina in 623, and therefore no less than 15 at the time of her marriage to Prophet Muhammad. Both are a far cry from the age of six that Wilders’ asserts. Likewise, most historians report that Hadhrat Asmara, Hadhrat Ayesha’s elder sister, was ten years her senior.[15] The books, “Tahzibut Tahzib” and “Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nihayah,” both report that Hadhrat Asma died at the age of 100, in 73 A.H. or 695 A.D.[16] This means that Hadhrat Asmara must have been no younger than 27 at the time of emigration. Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad was in 1 A.H. when Asma was 28.This means that at a minimum, Hadhrat Ayesha was 18 upon her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. The above examples are not exhaustive. Several other authentic Hadith and well-recorded events discredit allegations that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was six.

Ref:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage | Muhammad Fact Check

May Allah bless her soul richly. Aameen

Thank you Dawud for providing this link. This is very informative as I am unfamiliar with this topic.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
It's another case of religion being outdated by time and culture.

An objective person could probably distinguish that in the older days when the average lifespan was around 25-35 years, that this could be plausible for the human race to continue. But this obviously does not apply to today's standards and morals.

The scriptures came from another time, another way of living. It's a bit unfair to make these comparisons, but then I usually assert that its also unfair to bring forward these old scriptures and apply to today's generations.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
It's another case of religion being outdated by time and culture.

An objective person could probably distinguish that in the older days when the average lifespan was around 25-35 years, that this could be plausible for the human race to continue. But this obviously does not apply to today's standards and morals.

The scriptures came from another time, another way of living. It's a bit unfair to make these comparisons, but then I usually assert that its also unfair to bring forward these old scriptures and apply to today's generations.
Precisely. No matter how repugnant the topic sounds if one is try apprehend history in a reasonable manner one cannot hope to gain much insight by looking through our 21st century lens of experience and morality. What is more problematic is that many who follow the prophet of Islam, use him as justification for their own pedophilia.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I think it is a concern that the story Ayesha was married at six, and that her marriage was consummated when she was nine, seems to be used even today to justify taking child brides.
The weird part is that Muslims, in general, never felt a need to apologize for this or cast doubt on the age of Aisha prior to the last few decades.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Peace be on all human.
1= I think, it is clear [with references] that issue is misused to malign Islam [because of middle east situation] it is not 6 or 9 years..
Plz. see from other angles:

2= No revelation mentions that age.

3= People in Arab did not use calendars, years and dates as we use today since they were unlettered. Thus 2 or 3 years could be added or neglected here and there.


4= Before Hardwicke's Marriage Act of 1753 there was no lower legal age of marriage, except during the 1650's when it was 16 for men and 14 for women.
www.british-genealogy.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1969.htm


English common law, and early American law : In the early 1800's fathers could contract their daughters to marriage as early as age 12 and there was no consent on her part. Boys had to be 14 before they could enter into a marriage contract.
http://www.123helpme.com/preview.asp?id=42079

[if this link does not work, plz paste all 3 lines in search area, link will come]



5= Is a major age difference always destructive in a marriage? No......There are young people who are matured earlier and there are old people who do not.
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
Peace be on all.
It is Eid time for Muslims. Such a topic is out of time.
But due to a post here in RF, It is felt to correct a misunderstanding about above matter.
Why it is being ignored the there are other mentions present about the age of (Hazrat) Aisha. Six year thing is not a mark engraved on a stone, it is not mentioned in Quran.

"" .....several historical events and Ahadith narrations demonstrate that Hadhrat Ayesha was likely 15-16, or as old as 19-20 at the time of her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. For example, Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad took place one year after Hijrah (emigration to Medina), or around 624 A.D. She was the daughter of Hadhrat Abu Bakr. Tabari reports, “All four of [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives—the names of whom we have already mentioned—during the pre-Islamic period [i.e. pre-610 A.D.].”[14] Therefore, even if Hadhrat Ayesha were born in 609 A.D., only a year before Prophet Muhammad claimed prophethood, she would be roughly 14 at the time of emigration to Medina in 623, and therefore no less than 15 at the time of her marriage to Prophet Muhammad. Both are a far cry from the age of six that Wilders’ asserts. Likewise, most historians report that Hadhrat Asmara, Hadhrat Ayesha’s elder sister, was ten years her senior.[15] The books, “Tahzibut Tahzib” and “Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nihayah,” both report that Hadhrat Asma died at the age of 100, in 73 A.H. or 695 A.D.[16] This means that Hadhrat Asmara must have been no younger than 27 at the time of emigration. Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad was in 1 A.H. when Asma was 28.This means that at a minimum, Hadhrat Ayesha was 18 upon her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. The above examples are not exhaustive. Several other authentic Hadith and well-recorded events discredit allegations that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was six.

Ref:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage | Muhammad Fact Check

May Allah bless her soul richly. Aameen

A primary source, Tabari, never mentions Abu Bakr's children as cited. More so there are 5 citation from Tabari in which Aisha's age matches the hadith. Read your sources rather than accepting blindly.
 
In the Islamic tradition, dates (and birthdates in particular) are often open to significant debate. This is even true about Muhammed himself "He is generally considered to be born in the 'year of the elephant', however according to various Muslim sources he was born 15 years before that, or 3 or 10 or 15 or 20 or 23 or 30 or 40 or 50 or 70 years later. "

While such dates eventually became agreed upon by consensus, this often didn't happen for centuries meaning the consensus is itself open to debate.

The consensus was indeed that Aisha was very young, although it could be (speculatively) argued that there was an advantage to claim it to be as early as possible (in contrast to the modern way of thinking about it)

Aisha is a controversial figure in Sunni/Shia history, and her characyer has been attacked by many Shias (including regarding adultery). Having an early marriage age serves a dual purpose: 1. It ensures she was 'chaste' at the time of marriage, and 2. the longer she spent in Muhammed's household, the better to support their close bond and how much she learned from him. If she was 'raised' by Muhammed then she had the best possible upbringing and questioning her character could be seen as being critical of the Prophet.

This is speculative and might well be wrong, but the same sources that people rely on to demostrate her age also contain things that almost all non-Muslims would view as obvious inaccuracies. My personal opinion is that her true age is likely unknowable to a high degree of accuracy.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Peace be on all human.
1= I think, it is clear [with references] that issue is misused to malign Islam [because of middle east situation] it is not 6 or 9 years..
Plz. see from other angles:

No Islamic sources make clear statements regarding her age. You have issues with this. After all you brought up the topic.

2= No revelation mentions that age.

Irrelevant. There are sources mentioning her age. More so non-Muslims wouldn't accept revelation anyways. Keyword here is revelation, which has set parameters, rather than a normal source.

3= People in Arab did not use calendars, years and dates as we use today since they were unlettered. Thus 2 or 3 years could be added or neglected here and there.

They used a lunar calendar which did have years. 12 months were a year using this form of a calendar rather than set amount of days, leap year. Also unlettered refereed to scripture. The fact that writing which has demonstrated to exist prior, during and after the rise of Islam shows this statement to be false. Or as I put it you didn't interpret it right thus made a false conclusion. Never mind Islamic tradition shows that writing existed among the followers of Islam. After all Mo had his own scribe along with the codification process which states there were written accounts used as the basis for codification.


4= Before Hardwicke's Marriage Act of 1753 there was no lower legal age of marriage, except during the 1650's when it was 16 for men and 14 for women.
www.british-genealogy.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1969.htm

Tu quoque fallacy. Just because other people practiced child marriage does not make it right. More so by making this point you have conceded she did marry at the age of 9. Otherwise there is no comparison to make. Unlike your point of view there is a reason for such laws and changes over time. Humans were ignorant but we learned better. Allah can not be ignorant by definition of the type of god Allah is claimed to be. Human ignorance won't resolve the issue as it would make Islam a human construct. You are forced by your presupposition to find an escape route, nothing more.


English common law, and early American law : In the early 1800's fathers could contract their daughters to marriage as early as age 12 and there was no consent on her part. Boys had to be 14 before they could enter into a marriage contract.
http://www.123helpme.com/preview.asp?id=42079

See above

5= Is a major age difference always destructive in a marriage? No......There are young people who are matured earlier and there are old people who do not.

The harm caused outweighs the minor case of hypothetical successful marriages. Outward appearance of maturity does not equate internal maturity. Maturity being synonymous with development physical and mental. There is also the issue of evaluation of a case of "maturity". One would need to do physical and mental evaluations as a basis for legal marriage. This is a burden for the state (NHC) and/or family. This burden is increased by those that are "eager" to marry requesting more than an average amount of evaluations in order to meet a desire. It is more cost effective to set an age which a majority are considered developed.
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
Aisha is a controversial figure in Sunni/Shia history, and her characyer has been attacked by many Shias (including regarding adultery). Having an early marriage age serves a dual purpose: 1. It ensures she was 'chaste' at the time of marriage, and 2. the longer she spent in Muhammed's household, the better to support their close bond and how much she learned from him. If she was 'raised' by Muhammed then she had the best possible upbringing and questioning her character could be seen as being critical of the Prophet.

This is speculative and might well be wrong, but the same sources that people rely on to demostrate her age also contain things that almost all non-Muslims would view as obvious inaccuracies. My personal opinion is that her true age is likely unknowable to a high degree of accuracy.

There is a case to be argued for her chastity being a basis for a young age as per 1 as a solution. The ahdaith are a response to a view rather than a source of a view. However this would further erode ahadith science as reliable as such political and religious manipulation was to be "weeded out" in the collection and composition process.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
A primary source, Tabari, never mentions Abu Bakr's children as cited. More so there are 5 citation from Tabari in which Aisha's age matches the hadith. Read your sources rather than accepting blindly.
Please note:

حدث على بن محمد عمن حدثه ومن ذكرت من شيوخه قال: تزوج أبو بكر في الجاهلية قتيلة - ووافقه على
ذلك الواقدي الكلبي - قالوا: وهي قتيلة ابنة عبد العزى بن عبد بن أسعد بن جابر بن مالك بن حسل بن عامر بن
لؤي فولدت له عبد الله أسماء. وتزوج أيضًا في الجاهلية أم رومان بنت عامر بن عمير بن ذهل بن دهمان بن
الحارث بن غنم بن مالك بن كنانة - وقال بعضهم: هي أم رومان بنت عامر بن عويمر بن عبد شمس بن عتاب
بن أذنية بن سبيع بن دهمان بن الحارث بن غنم بن مالك بن كنانة - فولدت له عبد الرحمن وعائشة فكل هؤلاء
الأربعة من أولاده ولدوا من زوجتيه اللتين سميناهما في الجاهلي
ة

Tabari's quotation

-------------

It goes like this:

فكل هؤلاء
الأربعة من أولاده ولدوا من زوجتيه اللتين سميناهما في الجاهلي

All four of his [i.e. Abu Bakr's] children were born of his two wives
---- the names of whom we have already mentioned ----- during the pre-Islamic
period.

=Wording "the names of whom we already mentioned" is like within parenthesis.
=Tabari has already stated that these four children were born from the wives whom Abu Bakr had already married in Jaheliyah i.e time of ignorance (before Islam time).
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
.............. After all you brought up the topic.
We are through our Eid after Ramadhan. Why would I like to start such issue about revered elder?
Actually, someone started something yesterday about the issue in another area. I was told not to answer there, and open a thread in debate area. So with sadness I did so. ....There is nothing to discuss. Some unfortunate things are happening in Middle east. Muslims are weak. People [who even do not know or practice their own ancient religion] find good target of it for shooting practice.


Even if suppose [big one] she was under age, why local people, her family, father, tribe etc did not protest. ......It would have been good opportunity for foes to highlight the issue.......Clearly nothing wrong took place. .....In hot weather people become adult sooner.......Whatever the case was, it was not wrong.

For Ahmadiyya Muslims, peaceful reforms are under way. (Surprisingly those Muslims who deny Ahmadiyya-Muslims do not bother to answer these attacks, it is more hurting).
 
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3d2e1f

Member
DawudTalut said:
(Surprising those Muslims who deny Ahmadiyya-Muslims do not bother to answer these attacks, it is more hurting)

Brother Dawud. Please try to understand from the perspective of Sunni Muslims for whom Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are important hadith books. If you look at the second video I posted in my original post on this thread, you will see the sheikh rather eloquently *defend* the hadiths and the fact that Mohammed consummated his marriage with Ayesha when she was 9 years old.

So, from the POV of Sunni Muslims, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MOHAMMED CONSUMMATING HIS MARRIAGE WITH AYESHA WHEN SHE WAS 9 YEARS OLD. It was the culture at that time. Even I, as a non-Muslim find this to be a rather unfair way of criticizing Islam. Why do you feel that you need to defend the actions of Mohammed? If Mohammed had indeed consummated his marriage with Ayesha when she was 9 years old, would that disrupt your faith? Would you stop being Muslim?

Apologize for shouting, but I really wanted to get that across to you.

You, being an Ahmadi want Sunni Muslims to stop being Sunni by not following their hadith books. Am I right?
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Brother Dawud. Please try to understand from the perspective of Sunni Muslims for whom Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are important hadith books. If you look at the second video I posted in my original post on this thread, you will see the sheikh rather eloquently *defend* the hadiths and the fact that Mohammed consummated his marriage with Ayesha when she was 9 years old.

So, from the POV of Sunni Muslims, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MOHAMMED CONSUMMATING HIS MARRIAGE WITH AYESHA WHEN SHE WAS 9 YEARS OLD. It was the culture at that time.
Peace be on you.
Brother, I see your POV.
Believe me, Bhukhari, Muslim and other Saha sittah are important for us too.
Ahmadiyya Muslim have highest prioroty for Quran, then sunnah, then hadith. Everything have to be checked through gauge of Quran, then sunnah (continuous practice of Prophet sa)......Quran have lot of teaching for marriage and rights. It does not give any sense to marry underage.
For example
[4:7]And prove the orphans until they attain the age of marriage; then, if you find in them sound judgment, deliver to them their property; and devour it not in extravagance and haste against their growing up. And whoso is rich, let him abstain; and whoso is poor, let him eat thereof with equity. And when you deliver to them their property, then call witnesses in their presence. And Allah is sufficient as a Reckoner.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=499&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2

So no matter how many narratives stand before Quran, we either will try to reconcile tradition / hadith with Quran or just leave its reality to God.

.....

Why do you feel that you need to defend the actions of Mohammed? If Mohammed had indeed consummated his marriage with Ayesha when she was 9 years old, would that disrupt your faith? Would you stop being Muslim?
He (sa) came to establish rights and uproots evils. People before Islam were even marrying their step mothers. Baby girls were dug alive. ....How could Prophet sa do which he came to stop?

Apologize for shouting, but I really wanted to get that across to you.
No problem.. I know your view.

You, being an Ahmadi want Sunni Muslims to stop being Sunni by not following their hadith books. Am I right?
Many sunni brothers and sister too uphold Quran, and keep hadith [collection of latter time] as support.
When people give more importance to latter-collections over God's revelationanarchyy begins, it took place before Islam too. If things are kept at place, there will be no problem.


Criteria to Judge Authenticity of a Hadith
1. It does not go against the Holy Qur’an in any way.
2. It does not go against the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet sa and the collective action of the Companions of the Holy Prophet sa .
3. It is not against an observed and proven incident.
4. It is not against the (Truths) and common sense.


Page 181 @ https://www.alislam.org/books/ahmadiyyat/WelcomeBook2ndEd.pdf
 
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