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Featured against pagans?

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by syo, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. Rival

    Rival Dex Me Gart
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    It doesn't need to be clarified, it's common practice.
     
  2. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Common from your perspective.
     
  3. EverChanging

    EverChanging Well-Known Member

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    This is too simplistic. I cannot speak for all others, but I am for the flourishing and wellbeing of all conscious beings, and I believe that God will reconcile and save all.

    Furthermore, nothing that is good and true in pagan religions should be rejected. It may even be, in a Christian viewpoint, that when pagan prayers are answered, that the gods are guardian Angel's, or some other type of angel.

    A minority viewpoint, but I'm not the only Christian who has said such things.

    Sure, we may disagree on some things. But you have an obligation to form your understanding and conscience, and having continually done so to the best of your ability, to follow it, even if it differs from mine. That is traditional Catholic teaching.

    Aquinas said that the church is principally the society of the friends of God. We all know that certain non-Christian Jews were among God's friends.

    I do not doubt that some pagans are among this society of God's friends, even if this is implicit. By their fruits you shall know them.
     
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  4. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Nice bit of dismissive sarcasm there.

    Some people look for differences and highlight them. Others, including me, look for similarities and highlight those.

    15 Great Principles Shared by All Religions

    1. The Golden Rule / Law of Reciprocity – The cornerstone of religious understanding. “Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.” – Christianity
    2. Honor Thy Father and Mother – Knowing them is the key to knowing ourselves. The day will come when we shall wish we had known them better.
    3. Speak the Truth – “Sincerity is the way of heaven, and to think how to be sincere is the way of a man.” – Confucius
    4. It’s More Blessed to Give than to Receive – Generosity, charity and kindness will open an individual to an unbounded reservoir of riches.
    5. Heaven is Within – “Even as the scent dwells within the flower, so God within thine own heart forever abides.” – Sikhism
    6. Love Thy Neighbor / Conquer With Love / All You Need is Love – Acts of faith, prayer and deep meditation provide us with the strength that allows love for our fellow man to become an abiding part of our lives. Love is a unifying force.
    7. Blessed Are the Peacemakers – When people live in the awareness that there is a close kinship between all individuals and nations, peace is the natural result.
    8. You Reap What You Sow – This is the great mystery of human life. Aware or unaware, all are ruled by this inevitable law of nature.
    9. Man Does Not Live by Bread Alone – The blessings of life are deeper than what can be appreciated by the senses.
    10. Do No Harm – If someone tries to hurt another, it means that she is perceiving that person as something separate and foreign from herself.
    11. Forgiveness – The most beautiful thing a man can do is to forgive wrong. – Judaism
    12. Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged – This principle is an expression of the underlying truth that mankind is one great family, and that we all spring from a common source.
    13. Be Slow to Anger – Anger clouds the mind in the very moments that clarity and objectivity are needed most. “He who holds back rising anger like a rolling chariot, him I call a real driver; others only hold the reins.” – Buddha
    14. There is But One God / God is Love – Nature, Being, The Absolute. Whatever name man chooses, there is but one God. All people and all things are of one essence.
    15. Follow the Spirit of the Scriptures, Not the Words – “Study the words, no doubt, but look behind them to the thought they indicate; And having found it, throw the words away, as chaff when you have sifted out the grain.” – Hinduism
     
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  5. EverChanging

    EverChanging Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it the most honest and charitable to recognize both the similarities and the differences?
     
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  6. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Rubbish yourself, since Augustus Roman law enchained the cult of the Emperor and some members of his family devine status. The cult of the Emperor was seen as essential for Romes survival and to deny it was treason and punished by death.

    Treason was illegal (as it still is) Christians denying the emperor was a god were committing treason, which is illegal. You can butter it up any way you want but you cannot change the facts

    Not until Theodosius I was the law repealed
     
  7. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean by against ? Theologically we believe that all other religions are in error, because Christ said they were.

    We believe that those of of other faiths would ultimately be better served if they became Christians.

    We are against no ones faith except as noted above.

    We believe in liberty, and the freedom of someone to choose what they will believe, or not believe.

    We try to ensure that as many as possible know what Christianity is, and what it stands for. From there the individual has total free will in the matter.

    Some choose to hear nothing of Christianity, their choice,m their soul.
     
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  8. Martin

    Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

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    You can find similarities among the organised religions if you look hard enough. But what's the point? It's not like all the organised religions are going to suddenly come together and recognise you as their new-age Sunrise saviour.
    Isn't it more honest and authentic to find your own path, which may or may not coincincide with some organised religion(s)?

    By the way, I realise you're a colonial, but there really is a difference between sarcasm and irony, old chap. And if you're going to patronise, at least do it with style.
     
    #48 Martin, Dec 31, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  9. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    I made a valid point and you engaged in a personal attack. Oh well, RF is part of the internet.
     
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  10. Martin

    Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

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    Nonsense, youre just a sore loser, and by definition, not a Gentleman. Why don't you write a "Sunset" clause, old chap, admit defeat gracefully, and retire from the field.

    Blasted colonials, always blaming somebody else. Thank God we have hooky Wellington to defeat the EU and those Frenchies!
     
  11. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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    More rubbish 'with the death of Julius Caesar in 44 BCE when the Roman state declared him to be “divus” or divine. In some parts of the Empire it was acceptable to worship a living Emperor, but in Rome itself it was not.'
     
  12. EverChanging

    EverChanging Well-Known Member

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    Just a few thoughts this post brings to mind:

    In Jeremiah 35, pagans, the Rechabites, receive a blessing for adherence to their traditions. They were faithful, honest, and sincere. Judah herself according to Jeremiah had been unfaithful, and the Rechabites were held up as an example of faithfulness.

    I suppose in an ideal world, it is alleged to be the case that being Catholic would enable everyone the easiest means of becoming a better person.

    In the actual, realized, earthly, and imperfect world, this just isn't the case. Some vulnerable populations are excluded and harmed by the church. Some, to the best of their ability having informed their conscience and understanding, cannot with honesty and integrity embrace the faith. And they must follow their best formed conscience.

    St. Joan of Arc was excommunicated herself, but she followed her conscience and by her example because a great saint.

    Outside the Church there is no salvation. But it is not for us to say who is outside. St. Joan of Arc had, as mentioned, been excommunicated, and yet she joined the company of heaven. The church is firstly and principally the society of God's friends according to Aquinas, whoever they are, and non-Christian Jews are numbered among these and revered as saints.

    People must be given a measure of freedom to follow their conscience. Certainly our consciences are not infallible. We do err. But we have the obligation to continually challenge and form them, and engaged with that constant endeavor, to obey them.

    As to free will, I do not believe a will distorted by ignorance is fully free, and no one of their own freedom can choose eternal hell. The traditional understanding of freedom in Catholicism is far off from the common modern notion that makes a separation of the will from its circumstances, as though preceding factors do not constrain our choices.
     
  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Which is most important; the similarities or the differences? I believe many of the differences are manmade and have a strong tribal cultural basis, and unnecessarily lead to the beariers between religions and their egocentric claims..
     
    #53 shunyadragon, Dec 31, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  14. EverChanging

    EverChanging Well-Known Member

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    What about religions, whether similar or different, are not man-made?
     
  15. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    I am a Protestant, so for me Catholicism is not the reference point of Christianity. It is at best a perverted one.
     
  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    This depends on your perspective of whether your a philosophical materialist such as an atheist, or a Theist.
     
    #56 shunyadragon, Dec 31, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    It far too common for believers of one belief system to view others as perverted in one way or another. Based on the fallible nature of humans is problematic to decide which is true.
     
  18. EverChanging

    EverChanging Well-Known Member

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    The scriptures may be inspired according to Catholic belief. That doesn't mean that they're not man-made. Nor does it imply that atheism is true.
     
  19. EverChanging

    EverChanging Well-Known Member

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    This doesn't address any thoughts whatsoever contained in my post, but suffice it to say, since you did not discuss any of them, that I am strongly grounded in Tradition, and I disagree with elements of protestantism. But I'm not going to condemn you to hell for it.
     
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  20. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I have taken a position for either possibility yet, only considering the possibly perspectives.
     
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