Against abortion for any reason? What about the death penalty?

[Poisonshady313]

You are vengeful if you wish a painful death on someone.

I don't wish a painful death on anybody.

I'm just not bothered if a murderer experiences some pain when he's being put to death.

I don't say to go out of the way to make it painful.

I do say don't go out of the way to make it absolutely painless either.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

You just said that murder is wrong, but you are ok with murdering a murderer

It's ok, I know what you mean. But I don't see the point of causing a person suffering unless they actually learn from it.

You rock. I agree with you.

 

[Me Myself]

You have no business dragging my religion into this. We are done.

I apologize then, I do must say I was rather amazed by the fact that you appear to be this compassionate when the image you have of your God doesn´t seem to be so in my eyes, but that is indeed a subject for another thread, so as said I do apologize as it was out of place.

that aside, may you forgive me and move on to the point I put after saying such?

Thank you for being logical.

To be fair it goes a lot in line to what most people said here. I would agree almost completely to him for example. I wouldn´t explicitly try to torture the killer nor I think the system should try to do so, but I do believe there should be little concern in pain and more concern in effectiveness and I do wuold believe that the killing shouldn´t be worst than a shot in he head (which is very cheap effective and painless)

It is indeed about aking out the trash, not making the trash suffer. Taking out the trash in an efficient way.

 

[Poisonshady313]

You just said that murder is wrong, but you are ok with murdering a murderer

The death penalty is not murder.

It's ok, I know what you mean. But I don't see the point of causing a person suffering unless they actually learn from it.

It's neither here nor there. They're about to be dead.

I don't believe in stays of executions for the purpose of challenging injection protocols because a murderer might be uncomfortable for the last five minutes of their life.

 

[Me Myself]

You just said that murder is wrong, but you are ok with murdering a murderer

It's ok, I know what you mean. But I don't see the point of causing a person suffering unless they actually learn from it.

I absolutely agree with the bolded part, but as said the concern must be for it to be effective and efficient, not tobe unnecesarily painful nor unesesarily "unpainful". A guillotine is cheap and you don´t feel a thing. Same is with guns.

You are just sending the soul to another realm. Very resonably painlessly.

The only reall pain they´ll experience there is that which they made for themselves, but that is on them

 

[Erebus]

That is not fair. Just because I disagree with you does not mean that my views are odd.

I'm not trying to criticise you by saying that. It's something that doesn't make sense to me. I find enjoyment of watching sports odd, but I don't say that the people who do it are odd themselves if that makes sense?

 

[Badran]

You just said that murder is wrong, but you are ok with murdering a murderer

Murder is not the same as killing, or homicide. Or in other words, killing a person is not always murder.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

I apologize then, I do must say I was rather amazed by the fact that you appear to be this compassionate when the image you have of your God doesn´t seem to be so in my eyes, but that is indeed a subject for another thread, so as said I do apologize as it was out of place.

that aside, may you forgive me and move on to the point I put after saying such?



To be fair it goes a lot in line to what most people said here. I would agree almost completely to him for example. I wouldn´t explicitly try to torture the killer nor I think the system should try to do so, but I do believe there should be little concern in pain and more concern in effectiveness and I do wuold believe that the killing shouldn´t be worst than a shot in he head (which is very cheap effective and painless)

It is indeed about aking out the trash, not making the trash suffer. Taking out the trash in an efficient way.

Thank you for apologizing. Maybe we should each take a break from this debate. I am trying to stay positive so will you forgive me if I take a break?

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

I'm not trying to criticise you by saying that. It's something that doesn't make sense to me. I find enjoyment of watching sports odd, but I don't say that the people who do it are odd themselves if that makes sense?

I want to take a break from the debate. It is not you, it is me. I am trying to stay positive. But before I go, I will say that I wish peace for you. I can understand why it will not make sense though.

 

[Me Myself]

Thank you for apologizing. Maybe we should each take a break from this debate. I am trying to stay positive so will you forgive me if I take a break?

It´s very mature to do so when one thinks one needs it.

I feel okay debating on this personally though, I already let it out what I had inside me so I am okay now on that

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

It´s very mature to do so when one thinks one needs it.

I feel okay debating on this personally though, I already let it out what I had inside me so I am okay now on that

Thank you.

 

[Erebus]

I want to take a break from the debate. It is not you, it is me. I am trying to stay positive. But before I go, I will say that I wish peace for you. I can understand why it will not make sense though.

Don't worry about it, it's quite an emotionally charged thread so taking a break is probably a good idea

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

Don't worry about it, it's quite an emotionally charged thread so taking a break is probably a good idea

Thank you.

 

[Onkara]

I haven't been able to stop thinking about re-introducing the death penalty after I read that a teenage boy beat his girlfriend to death for a "free breakfast" from a friend. The criminal will serve 14 years in prison, he will be 30 when he is free... justice for a girl's life?

I am not sure I support brining it back, but as a deterrent it could save lives.

 

[Kathryn]

I believe in pro-choice but on the fence regarding the death penalty.

Those of you against the death penalty let me ask you something.

How do you afford life for a convicted criminal when he/she didn't give that option to their victim?

I'm not sympathetic to murderers, and in fact, if the death penalty is the only reasonable way to protect society from a killer, then I would be OK with the death penalty. But - life without the possibility of parole seems like justice to me.

I don't have enough faith in our legal system to allow for the death penalty. I have absolutely no faith that such a punishment is or would be carried out with justice and fairness. The wretched disparity that I see in the application of the death penalty sickens me.

Two wrongs don't make a right. In my world, I don't see how the killing of another person, especially such a horrible person as a murderer, would in any way atone for the death of an innocent person. We can't have atonement - but we can protect society from the murderer.

 

[Badran]

I'm not sympathetic to murderers, and in fact, if the death penalty is the only reasonable way to protect society from a killer, then I would be OK with the death penalty. But - life without the possibility of parole seems like justice to me.

I fail to see how its justice when the murderer still gets to enjoy the same thing he unfairly took away from his/her victim(s).

Not saying you should support the death penalty, you're free of course to oppose it based on practical reasons (though as i stated earlier i think that can be solved in another way), just saying i fail too see how that is supposed to be justice.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Killing a murderer is not wrong. Letting people get away with one of the most serious crimes with a lesser punishment is wrong, however, in my view. (Not always though).

 

[Kathryn]

I fail to see how its justice when the murderer still gets to enjoy the same thing he unfairly took away from his/her victim(s).

Not saying should support the death penalty, you're free of course to oppose it based on practical reasons (though as i stated earlier i think that can be solved in another way), just saying i fail too see how that is supposed to be justice.



Killing a murderer is not wrong. Letting people get away with one of the most serious crimes with a lesser punishment is wrong, however, in my view. (Not always though).

I don't see how life in prison compares in any way to the stolen life of the innocent person. I don't see how the death of a murderer can in any way bring relief or joy back to the family of the innocent victim. And I can't see how life in prison - I mean an entire life spent behind bars in our penal system - is an insignificant or mild punishment. I wouldn't call serving a life sentence without parole to be "enjoying life."

One thing for sure - with that option, you don't run the risk of putting an innocent person to death - or for unfairly admininistering the death penalty to a particular group of society.

The problem with the death penalty is that it's irreversible, regardless of what evidence shows up later.

Don't bother me with "what if" examples - of course, as usual, there are exceptions to the rule. I have already said that in some cases, the death penalty may be the best option. But I believe those cases would be rare.

If you're looking for a harsh punishment, and for the protection of society, generally life in prison without parole will do the job nicely. If you're looking for revenge - after the murderer is put to death, your loved one is still dead. Seems less than fulfilling.

 

[Badran]

I don't see how life in prison compares in any way to the stolen life of the innocent person. I don't see how the death of a murderer can in any way bring relief or joy back to the family of the innocent victim.

It does bring relief to many families of victims. It won't bring their loved ones back, but its a relief because it is justice served. They at least feel that the person responsible for their loved ones no longer being alive hasn't gotten away with their crime, but have met the same fate they inflicted on someone else unfairly.

And I can't see how life in prison - I mean an entire life spent behind bars in our penal system - is an insignificant or mild punishment. I wouldn't call serving a life sentence without parole to be "enjoying life."

I didn't say it was mild, or that he'll be enjoying life. What i meant is he is getting to enjoy being alive, with the good and bad in that, unlike his victim.

Unsuitable to be more accurate, is what i should label it when describing this punishment in general.

One thing for sure - with that option, you don't run the risk of putting an innocent person to death - or for unfairly admininistering the death penalty to a particular group of society.

The problem with the death penalty is that it's irreversible, regardless of what evidence shows up later.

And that is a different point. But like i said, it can be dealt with in other ways in my view rather than this way.

Don't bother me with "what if" examples - of course, as usual, there are exceptions to the rule. I have already said that in some cases, the death penalty may be the best option. But I believe those cases would be rare.

Which is partially why i'm rather astounded by your words here and other people who do the same. That is, not sticking to the practical reasons but also trying to imply that there is something wrong with the concept of death penalty.

And thats not to say i can't understand how can someone view the death penalty as wrong, but to say if you oppose it for practical reasons one should stick to that without adding arguments that imply other things about the death penalty.

If you're looking for a harsh punishment, and for the protection of society, generally life in prison without parole will do the job nicely. If you're looking for revenge - after the murderer is put to death, your loved one is still dead. Seems less than fulfilling.

This like i stated above is what astounds me.

In any case, i'm not actually looking for harsh punishments, just suitable ones.

 

[Storm]

A quick poll on abortion and the death penalty.

Always remember to put "Other."

I'm staunchly pro-choice, an ambivalent on the death penalty. I support it in principle, but the system is broken.

 

[Erebus]

I don't see how life in prison compares in any way to the stolen life of the innocent person. I don't see how the death of a murderer can in any way bring relief or joy back to the family of the innocent victim. And I can't see how life in prison - I mean an entire life spent behind bars in our penal system - is an insignificant or mild punishment. I wouldn't call serving a life sentence without parole to be "enjoying life."

If you're looking for a harsh punishment, and for the protection of society, generally life in prison without parole will do the job nicely. If you're looking for revenge - after the murderer is put to death, your loved one is still dead. Seems less than fulfilling.

Got to admit I've always considered life imprisonment harsher than the death sentence (one of the reasons I feel life inmates should have the option of a death sentence). Still, while I can't speak for everybody, to me the death sentence should be a way of removing a threat to society pure and simple. It shouldn't be about revenge or sadism, it should be done as a matter of efficiency.
Of course that's coming from an idealogical perspective. I'm well aware of the tendency for people to seek revenge through blood and pain.

The problem with the death penalty is that it's irreversible, regardless of what evidence shows up later.

This is an excellent point. I would suggest that there would have to be 1. superb evidence to support a death sentence and 2. at the very least an average lifetime in guilty charges to warrant execution so as to limit the chances of false conviction as much as possible (1 murder or maybe even 2 could be an accident/mistake etc but 4 or 5 and it's looking very unlikely)
Mistakes will always be made and tragedies will always happen, there's no way around it. IMO the only thing we can do is come up with the best solution to a problem that's available. While I don't know about America, I do know that in England prisons can cause more problems than they're worth especially considering we have a fairly dense population for our landmass. Obviously I'm not suggesting a return to the bloody code and I'm actually a big supporter of restorative justice, but some people simply need to be gotten rid of in my opinion.