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angellous_evangellous
Guest
YmirGF said:
Not a good idea in my opinion. It's better to leave well enough alone.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
This show explained it as something from a puffer fish was the key ingredient that "killed" the person. The person would go into a comma, and wake up shortly after, with all normal functions.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Actually, it is, but quite honestly I would feel bad that people got themselves hurt attempting to do so... for a moment or two. Then I would probably chuckle and mutter "Tricks are for kids!"Pardus said:Is that a challenge?
FeatherInHair or perhaps Kreeden, perhaps even some of the Wiccans might be able to explain what I call the "Boomerang effect".
But, back to the OP.
I'm not saying that people witnessing these events will not report oddities that seem supernatural. I am implicitly stating that it is more of a case of belief in action, if not run amok. The idea that one can be affected by curses or any intrusive act is dependent on one's belief in such things. If you do not believe in or understand them for what they are, one develops something akin to a "teflon" coating... or perhaps "spiritual mirror" might also give the idea.
To my viewpoint "eye witness" accounts are simply describing the results of their own beliefs. They believe the shaman has supernatural "powers". The shaman also believes he/she has supernatural powers. The twain meet and you end up with a three ring circus... where anything can, in theory, occur.
I could be wrong, but it is a bit more logical than things that go bump in the night.
Nehustan
Well-Known Member
My Prof. has actually conducted fieldwork with a local academic out in Haiti on this exact subject. Despite looking he found no conclusive evidence for Davis' postulation. In fact during my interview he said that the people delineated as 'zombies' were more often than not suffering from mental health conditions, and actually were not related to the people that claimed they were their dead relatives (i.e. via DNA).
Found the article by him, you may have to visit a library that has in it hard copy, unless your athens login will gain you access to a database...
Clinical findings in three cases of zombification
Roland Littlewood, Chavannes Douyon
The Lancet - Vol. 350, Issue 9084, 11 October 1997, Pages 1094-1096
(I used ScienceDirect)
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Thanks. I have colleagues who are anthropologists as well. There are plenty of things that shamans do that are classified as "unexplainable" according to the agnostic methodologies of anthropology.
The layman's term is "freaky."
They can do a variety of incredible things, but precisely how it is explained by outsiders is debatable...
SkinnyCheruscian
Member
I think the voodoo zombie is largely a myth.
You have to understand that voodoo is a religion with roots in a specific area of Africa, Benin and parts of Nigeria. This is where it comes from, where it is called vodun. It has nothing to do with shamanism. Voodoo is a religion in which the believers can experience trance involving possession by spirits, i.e. the spirit talks through the person in trance who then changes voice etc. In contrast, in shamanism, the shaman enters a trance to speak to the spirits, but is not possessed by them (i.e. despite the trance never loses the awareness who he or she is).
The stories surrounding zombies, however, are specific to Haiti and unknown in vodun. I know this because someone in my family is married to someone from Haiti, while another friend has worked in Benin as an ethnologist.
One interpretation of zombie myths is that they are an allegory on the trauma of slavery.
Another (controversial) explanation is that in the past evil sorcerers would poison someone with a brew so that the victim appeared dead and was buried. However, the person in question was only in a coma, so they could rob the "corpse". The intoxication damaged the brain,but left the body intect so that the victim was then used as a will-less robot-like worker for hard farm work.
In any case, zombies are not part of the practices of voodoo, which, despite the for us sometimes strange images of chicken sacrifices etc, is a religion in support of life and health of the community.
BTW, people please donate for Haiti! There is still lots to be done!
What hard time sfor the Haitian people, who has suffered already so much.
Few people know that Haiti was actually the first Black Republic, Toussaint L'Ouverture took the French revolution by the letter and said, well, then we are also free. Unfortunately, the first free island of the Caribean is now the poorest... so undeserved.
You have to understand that voodoo is a religion with roots in a specific area of Africa, Benin and parts of Nigeria. This is where it comes from, where it is called vodun. It has nothing to do with shamanism. Voodoo is a religion in which the believers can experience trance involving possession by spirits, i.e. the spirit talks through the person in trance who then changes voice etc. In contrast, in shamanism, the shaman enters a trance to speak to the spirits, but is not possessed by them (i.e. despite the trance never loses the awareness who he or she is).
The stories surrounding zombies, however, are specific to Haiti and unknown in vodun. I know this because someone in my family is married to someone from Haiti, while another friend has worked in Benin as an ethnologist.
One interpretation of zombie myths is that they are an allegory on the trauma of slavery.
Another (controversial) explanation is that in the past evil sorcerers would poison someone with a brew so that the victim appeared dead and was buried. However, the person in question was only in a coma, so they could rob the "corpse". The intoxication damaged the brain,but left the body intect so that the victim was then used as a will-less robot-like worker for hard farm work.
In any case, zombies are not part of the practices of voodoo, which, despite the for us sometimes strange images of chicken sacrifices etc, is a religion in support of life and health of the community.
BTW, people please donate for Haiti! There is still lots to be done!
What hard time sfor the Haitian people, who has suffered already so much.
Few people know that Haiti was actually the first Black Republic, Toussaint L'Ouverture took the French revolution by the letter and said, well, then we are also free. Unfortunately, the first free island of the Caribean is now the poorest... so undeserved.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
As to calling them myths, there are many documented cases. These people really do slip into commas, and shortly wake up from them. Also, it's not an allegory for slavery as sometimes when the victim wakes up, they think they are under the control of whoever cursed them and are sometimes used as slaves.
SkinnyCheruscian
Member
According to wikipedia. The claims regarding the poison have been challenged by other scientists, andthere are not many cases, just a few, which could as well have been mentally troubled persons. I have had once a flatmade who had psychotic episodes during which he thought the doctors of the mental institution would control his life by remore control. Poor guy.
The impact of the brutality of slavery on the images in haitian vodou is obvious. It is rich in images, which show quite some creativity in coming to terms with this traumatic experience. Haitian vodou is full of half playful, half serious games of mockery and transgression, often with a dark side to it.
Reading the experience of the zombie dying followed by resurrestion to a painful, oppressed life of forced labor as a metaphor for being caught and sold into slavery is not far fetched.
I find the image of the zombie also contains the projection of fears and desires of white culture on the other, here the black human.
Another thing that is very interesying in vodoo, but also vodun, is the lability of gender definitions. Regardless of sexual orientation, it used to be socially accepted when individuals take accesoires or haistyles of the other gender, because they were worshippers of a loa of the other gender.
I find it wrong looking at these fascinating cultures just saying: are they really that creepy?
The impact of the brutality of slavery on the images in haitian vodou is obvious. It is rich in images, which show quite some creativity in coming to terms with this traumatic experience. Haitian vodou is full of half playful, half serious games of mockery and transgression, often with a dark side to it.
Reading the experience of the zombie dying followed by resurrestion to a painful, oppressed life of forced labor as a metaphor for being caught and sold into slavery is not far fetched.
I find the image of the zombie also contains the projection of fears and desires of white culture on the other, here the black human.
Another thing that is very interesying in vodoo, but also vodun, is the lability of gender definitions. Regardless of sexual orientation, it used to be socially accepted when individuals take accesoires or haistyles of the other gender, because they were worshippers of a loa of the other gender.
I find it wrong looking at these fascinating cultures just saying: are they really that creepy?