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Featured Afghanistan, religion and oppression, the love of it

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Aug 14, 2021.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I am cutting and pasting this from a post so its not formed as a proper post.

    I will translate a very famous Asian folk song. Just for you to read. It cant rhyme because translating means you have to shift word orders.

    If we keep watching the times we can have our home grown rice will come to an end
    The English bull has to be chased away from the central area, get ready for that my fellow
    Why should my puppy dog, the love of my village home be taxed
    I wonder if tomorrow even the milk in a mothers breasts will be taxed

    Oh when my babies are crying what do I give you to eat?
    If those Gods in our sermons are alive, they will cut the white man into four pieces
    With what mind are they even taxing the jack tree in the garden?
    Sharpen those swords you kept for cutting Jackfruit, to cut the white man

    From the month of may, flowers of freedom fighting will bloom
    When do we cut those dirty white men on the soil of our mother land?

    And so on.

    Thats a milder translation. The issue with the modern world with all of this superficial talk is that they have forgotten the history of the world. This song was written in the form of poems in the 1940's when they were fighting for their freedom against the British invaders. The thing to note is that the particular person they are addressing this song lived in the early 19th century, that's around 125 years before this song was written. It shows that this particular people lived with that level of anger and frustration for hundreds of years under the British oppression. But the most important thing is to note the level of oppression and the level of anger they are talking about.

    It is very easy for every tom, dick and harry to blame something on religion, or atheism, or something else with childish levels of study on these issues. But the depth of history's effect on the modern society can never be so easily dismissed or analysed. This is like a child playing with a toy just randomly making statements for the personal pleasure, nothing more, nothing less.

    Just read through this thread and try and understand how shallow people are. Statements are made as if they have studied what should be done, whats the reason for all of this, and what is the meta information behind everything for years. People speak as if they have done immense research and come to conclusions based on those, but they are actually speaking with utter, mind numbing levels of ignorance the empty vessel filled arrogance, not information.

    Recently I was telling one guy in this forum about women in a Buddhist society where they dont use sanitary napkins because they cant afford them, and that they dont use condoms, and that they dont have sex out of marriage, and that they cant stop having children because there is no family planning, neither can they afford any pills, but this guy who is a staunch atheist immediately guessed that they were Muslims and that they should have known better than to have a child. Thats it, shop closed. Solution given. He didnt know I was speaking about a Buddhist society but he immediately guessed its a Muslim society, and he just cannot fathom that people are having sex with no child planning, and that too we were discussing the "first baby", not the 10th or the 15th. One child. Women in some areas of the world cant walk to get a bus because the bus stop might be miles away. She cant leave the child with someone else because everyone in the village is in the fields working or no food for tonight. The man has to go to the field to get his share of rice and vegetables. But you know what this so called educated, American gentleman's idea was? His idea was that "the man should not be going to work leaving the wife at home. The woman also should go to work and maybe hire a maid to look after the child". People like this think they are highly educated, but in fact they have gone raving mad. No empathy. Zilch.

    In this particular topic, Afghanistan is probably the worst type of society in the world. Or at least one of the worst. Women are oppressed. No doubt. But has anyone considered who is oppressing these women? Is it the men?

    Yes. It is indeed the men. Lol. But its also the women themselves. Lets say one young man wants to marry a young lady from another tribe, it will be the mother who will put an end to it. I dont want to go on a rant in this matter, but the women share the same guilt of this oppressive society. Blame it on the rain. This is an oppressive, regressive society and there is no doubt in that, but one must study the history to at least have an idea of whats going on. Afghanistan was invaded repeatedly by all the holy super powers in the world. Repeatedly. They were always warring, since at least Napoleon which is the modern era. Afghanistan was a very progressive society with girls wearing short skirts maybe 4-6 decades ago. Russia, France, U.S, all of them ploughed the land like the tilth of gold they were looking for, and the country was left with tribes and tribes fighting each other. Rwanda had their tribal massacres because the French left them after their divide and conquer strategy, the same thing the british did in India and every single surrounding country. The divisions the british created in these countries led to wars and murder until today. I say that again, "EVEN TODAY". One division they created ended with a masochist war that lasted 30 years as a full fledged war, and was done and dusted in 2009. The strategy is to take a minority, make them kings, make them the educated, and oppress the majority which makes it easier to rule. This is called divide and conquer. This is what they did. Then, when times were rough, the invader, be it France, U.S, England, Russia or any moronic institution will leave them abruptly telling them "here you go, this is your freedom". But the silly divisions they created will linger, and will linger for another 100 years. One tribal leader in Afghanistan who were favoured by the United States kidnapped a child and word spread that they were raping that child. This was common place there. So one dude in a university decided he wants to rescue this child. So he gathered his students and who ever was willing to help him and overran the tribes forces to rescue this child. So this gave him recognition and power. He is the leader of the Taliban. He is Mullah Umar. This is their history.

    One day I was talking about rape which is one area I know and work in because I have three sisters and a mother. So I was giving reasons for rape and I was quoting clinical psychologist Groth, and one guy who was an atheist accuses "you are victim blaming"? So I dont expect much better for this post. There is no difference between atheists, muslims, christians, and/or anyone else. They are all the same. I mentioned atheists here because it is the atheists who love to blame everything on religion for everything without even knowing anything in the business (some atheists in the forum). Lol. Just that the atheists dont know that theists all over the world were blaming atheists for the millions murdered since the dawn of the 20th century. So this is a Childs game of "mama, he did it". So honestly, I dont expect anything better but since this came up, I just thought I should leave some thoughts to ponder over.

    Bottomline is, there is a lot to think of. We must think, not just speak with nothing but emptiness. I was reading about a mother who irons the girls chest just to make the breasts smaller so that she won't be noticed by their men and raped. Haha. No no. This is not a Muslim society, its an African society. I say that before anyone jumps to their normal conclusions. There are cultures where having sex and proving a woman has the ability to birth a child is a criteria for marriage. If not, the men won't marry this girl. So she goes around having sex with any suiter who comes across. Yep, this spread HIV like wild fire, and their society has probably the highest number of HIV positive cases in the world. Say a country like Botswana. But see, its not interesting for most. No juicy feeling you know, there is no adrenalin rush talking about these things.

    I shall stop now. Lets just think a bit better.
     
    #1 firedragon, Aug 14, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
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  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    There are excuses for all things under the sun. ;)
     
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  3. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    All fair and well. All of your post stands as such. Except one thing. I am an atheist and not a part of this:
    "I mentioned atheists here because it is the atheists who love to blame everything on religion for everything without even knowing anything in the business."

    Regards
    Mikkel
     
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  4. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Silent Generation - so don't expect much
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    Yes, I'm sure atheists blame many things on religion, and where they might be justified, but not all things.
     
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  5. Martin

    Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

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    So what's your view of the Taliban with their hand-choppings and stonings? Are they "proper" Muslims?
     
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  6. Martin

    Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

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    You don't have to be an atheist to criticise appalling behaviour.
     
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  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    But there is no excuse for cherry picking like you do ;)
     
  8. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    If I was generalising, I must apologise for that. Im sorry.

    What happened was this is a post, not an OP, and it was a post in a thread opened by an atheist and in conversation with atheists. Thats the reason it came off like that.
     
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  9. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    If you want to discuss what ever you want to discuss other than this particular OP, you can open your own thread which would be a better approach.

    This thread is not about what is being a proper Muslim, atheist, Christian, hindu or alien. I hope you understand.
     
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  10. Martin

    Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

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    So what is this thread about? I'm not clear.
     
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  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    This thread is about the OP Martin.
     
  12. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Part of why I'm not a Muslim, because I know it wouldn't make me a better person than I am as a non-Muslim, so it is meaningless to change.

    Interesting though that you started out saying atheists, Muslims etc are all the same then went on a rant specifically targeting atheists.

    And it seems to me most of the problems you mentioned had cultural causes, so we can and should subject those cultural causes to criticism including where those cultural causes are religious in nature.

    In my opinion.
     
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  13. Martin

    Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

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    I've read the OP and I'm still none the wiser. It's a sort of rambling journal piece. What do wish to discuss?
     
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  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Thanks for your commentary. ).
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Great. Have a good day.
     
  16. Justanatheist

    Justanatheist Well-Known Member

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    And yet you cherry pick an atheist who appears exceptionally ignorant.

    Here are three solutions which we know work and the Taliban are against all three for religious reasons.

    Education, universal education for all including girls.

    Birth control, effective birth control in the hands of WOMEN.

    Economic empowerment of women, time and time again we see that micro loans to women actually help alleviate poverty.

    Women are the key to economic development in third-world countries
    Aisha Abdi
    AISHA ABDI: Giving women greater economic empowerment benefits their households, their communities and ultimately their countries.

    Women are the key to economic development in third-world countries
     
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  17. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    The world is in a sad state and the heroes in one country/culture are seen as the enemies in another.
    Tribalism is no doubt rampant.
    It is hard not to blame people, since they are what we see and hear about and at times it is current situations that need to be dealt with regardless of the history of a situation.
    Behind the scenes in Governments there are things going on that the normal citizen knows nothing about until maybe many years later and in hindsight.
    The earth no doubt is the battlefield for things that are happening in the spiritual realm and it is important to know that God can bring good from the worst of situations and ultimately He is in control even when it does not look like it.
     
  18. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s about understanding current conflicts in their proper historical context.

    When condemning injustice, it pays to have a fuller understanding of how those conditions came about, which allowed injustice to flourish.
     
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  19. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Great. Thanks.
     
  20. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    I imagine that in this context, it's less about "blaming religion", and more specifically about blaming Islam.

    Western society has long defined itself by pointing to an Other and proclaiming loudly, "I am in no way like them! I have defined myself to exist as their exact opposite!" Today, the Middle East has taken over the role of this Other. Regardless of facticity, Western media frames Middle Eastern and Muslim majority societies as the counterpart to the West, much like they used to frame Communist countries as polar opposites of capitalism.

    In this context, it does not matter how people from these countries actually live, and what they actually believe. If they are found to be closer to Westerners than initially thought, then they are immediately dismissed as "Westernized", with the undercurrent that they are not really Muslims, not really representatives of their cultures and their societies. Whatever commonality with Westerners they might display is an inconvenience to the image we like to draw, a funhouse mirror opposite of what Westerners like to imagine themselves as.
     
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