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Advice For Bible Students Beware Of The Scholars

Earthling

David Henson
Have you had a discussion in which someone who claims to be trained in ancient Hebrew, Greek or is a Bible Scholar, or has been to seminary gives the impression that because of their education in any of the fields they must be right and you must be wrong? It happens all of the time to me. And lets put that into perspective.

Jesus as a child impressed the Jewish religious leaders of the time. Later, as an adult, he strongly criticized those religious leaders. Jesus wasn't a scholar. Nor were his disciples. Nor were nearly all of the writers of the Bible, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. The only scholars I can think of were Ezra and Paul, and Paul's training had him persecuting and savagely killing Christians until his conversion.

The Jewish leaders rejected Jesus, the only one who could ever be proven, by legal documentation to have been the Messiah since the records were destroyed in the Roman destruction of the temple in 66 - 70 C.E.

Jehovah therefore rejected the Jewish system and expanded his approval to the Gentile followers of Christ.

But Christianity is hardly any better off. Paul foretold the future apostasy of Christendom and their preference over myth and legends. The soul isn't immortal. Jesus didn't die on a cross. The Bible doesn't teach hell, the rapture, the trinity. . . if you read in the Bible that the soul is mortal, it dies, then don't let the so called scholars change your thinking. Listen to what they say but don't put your trust in them, or anyone else, including me, gurus, the Pope, Rabbis, Bible Scholars, or even the apostles and disciples of Jesus.

Your spiritual growth isn't dependent upon, or the responsibility of the intellectual, the scholar, or any of those mentioned above. It is dependent upon you. It's your responsibility.
 
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Earthling

David Henson
Jesus had/s a religion. Jesus Rabbiom Moshiach teaches way to practice religion.

Anything else...

Yeah, what is Rabbiom? The word Rabbi doesn't appear in Hebrew scriptures. It's only in the 2nd century B.C.E. that the Pharisees began to challenge the legitimacy of the Levite priesthood. In order to diminish the emphasis on said priesthood and bolster their own, 1,500 years after his death they retroactively designated Moses as Rabbi. After the destruction of Jerusalem they were an unchallenged cult which centered on the rabbinic sages. Ever read the Pirqe Aboth? Self exaltation.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Let's see if you can back that up with what we like to call research. Facts. Anything other than opinion.
Jesus was self-evidently not the messiah and Paul, in proclaiming him so, was therefore wrong. Paul and the gospel writers misquote the Tanach on multiple occasions and misapply prophecy, as well as just making basic errors such as having Jesus argue with people about healing on the Sabbath, which is not forbidden.

Just take a look at this in Romans, where he is apparently quoting Isaiah,


And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


Here is the actual quote,


And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.


The Christian Testament just misquotes Tanach all over the place to justify its strange theology.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Jesus was self-evidently not the messiah and Paul, in proclaiming him so, was therefore wrong. Paul and the gospel writers misquote the Tanach on multiple occasions and misapply prophecy, as well as just making basic errors such as having Jesus argue with people about healing on the Sabbath, which is not forbidden.

Self-evidently is a nice word. Higher Self or lower self? We can't know about Jesus from scriptures, at best we can only believe from scriptures IMO
My Master said that Jesus went from "Messenger of God" to "Son of God" and finally "Became one with God". I prefer this description.

Google gave:
In Abrahamic religions, the messiah or messias is a saviour or liberator of a group of people
In Judaism, the Messiah is not considered to be God or a pre-existent divine Son of God.

I have seen people been saved/cured "in name of Jesus", so according to above definition seems to me a Messiah
I have had a wonderful Love experience with Jesus [appearing to me], so personally I am convinced Jesus is real

All words people attribute to Jesus [like Messiah or not] is not so important to me. I know Jesus is real to me, that is all I need
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
It has only been a small time that the Bible has even been available to literate people, so I guess you could say that today's people are privileged compared to any earlier generation. Trying to think from Christian perspective then, wouldn't it have been enormously unfair to all previous generations that didn't have the ability or means to study? When first available Bibles costs were prohibitive even to those wealthy and lucky enough to be literate in the Latin or Greek. Wouldn't it have thrown much of the people to the wrong path intentionally...
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Self-evidently is a nice word. Higher Self or lower self? We can't know about Jesus from scriptures, at best we can only believe from scriptures IMO
My Master said that Jesus went from "Messenger of God" to "Son of God" and finally "Became one with God". I prefer this description.

Google gave:
In Abrahamic religions, the messiah or messias is a saviour or liberator of a group of people
In Judaism, the Messiah is not considered to be God or a pre-existent divine Son of God.

I have seen people been saved/cured "in name of Jesus", so according to above definition seems to me a Messiah
I have had a wonderful Love experience with Jesus [appearing to me], so personally I am convinced Jesus is real

All words people attribute to Jesus [like Messiah or not] is not so important to me. I know Jesus is real to me, that is all I need
According to the Jewish Scriptures, Jesus is not the messiah and since Christianity came from Judaism and tries to justify its messiah using Jewish Scriptures, it's fair to say he wasn't. You don't just get to redefine the term and then accuse the people who came before you, who own the Scriptures, of being wrong and misled.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Have you had a discussion in which someone who claims to be trained in ancient Hebrew, Greek or is a Bible Scholar, or has been to seminary gives the impression that because of their education in any of the fields they must be right and you must be wrong? It happens all of the time to me. And lets put that into perspective.

Jesus as a child impressed the Jewish religious leaders of the time. Later, as an adult, he strongly criticized those religious leaders. Jesus wasn't a scholar. Nor were his disciples. Nor were nearly all of the writers of the Bible, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. The only scholars I can think of were Ezra and Paul, and Paul's training had him persecuting and savagely killing Christians until his conversion.

The Jewish leaders rejected Jesus, the only one who could ever be proven, by legal documentation to have been the Messiah since the records were destroyed in the Roman destruction of the temple in 66 - 70 C.E.

Jehovah therefore rejected the Jewish system and expanded his approval to the Gentile followers of Christ.

But Christianity is hardly any better off. Paul foretold the future apostasy of Christendom and their preference over myth and legends. The soul isn't immortal. Jesus didn't die on a cross. The Bible doesn't teach hell, the rapture, the trinity. . . if you read in the Bible that the soul is mortal, it dies, then don't let the so called scholars change your thinking. Listen to what they say but don't put your trust in them, or anyone else, including me, gurus, the Pope, Rabbis, Bible Scholars, or even the apostles and disciples of Jesus.

Your spiritual growth isn't dependent upon, or the responsibility of the intellectual, the scholar, or any of those mentioned above. It is dependent upon you. It's your responsibility.

So basically, do your own thing.
I suspect that's why we ended up with so many Christian denominations.
 

Politesse

Amor Vincit Omnia
Have you had a discussion in which someone who claims to be trained in ancient Hebrew, Greek or is a Bible Scholar, or has been to seminary gives the impression that because of their education in any of the fields they must be right and you must be wrong? It happens all of the time to me. And lets put that into perspective.

Jesus as a child impressed the Jewish religious leaders of the time. Later, as an adult, he strongly criticized those religious leaders. Jesus wasn't a scholar. Nor were his disciples. Nor were nearly all of the writers of the Bible, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. The only scholars I can think of were Ezra and Paul, and Paul's training had him persecuting and savagely killing Christians until his conversion.

The Jewish leaders rejected Jesus, the only one who could ever be proven, by legal documentation to have been the Messiah since the records were destroyed in the Roman destruction of the temple in 66 - 70 C.E.

Jehovah therefore rejected the Jewish system and expanded his approval to the Gentile followers of Christ.

But Christianity is hardly any better off. Paul foretold the future apostasy of Christendom and their preference over myth and legends. The soul isn't immortal. Jesus didn't die on a cross. The Bible doesn't teach hell, the rapture, the trinity. . . if you read in the Bible that the soul is mortal, it dies, then don't let the so called scholars change your thinking. Listen to what they say but don't put your trust in them, or anyone else, including me, gurus, the Pope, Rabbis, Bible Scholars, or even the apostles and disciples of Jesus.

Your spiritual growth isn't dependent upon, or the responsibility of the intellectual, the scholar, or any of those mentioned above. It is dependent upon you. It's your responsibility.
Jesus impressed the scholars because of his wisdom and understanding. Not because he was ignorant and proud of it.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Have you had a discussion in which someone who claims to be trained in ancient Hebrew, Greek or is a Bible Scholar, or has been to seminary gives the impression that because of their education in any of the fields they must be right and you must be wrong? It happens all of the time to me. And lets put that into perspective.

Jesus as a child impressed the Jewish religious leaders of the time. Later, as an adult, he strongly criticized those religious leaders. Jesus wasn't a scholar. Nor were his disciples. Nor were nearly all of the writers of the Bible, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. The only scholars I can think of were Ezra and Paul, and Paul's training had him persecuting and savagely killing Christians until his conversion.

The Jewish leaders rejected Jesus, the only one who could ever be proven, by legal documentation to have been the Messiah since the records were destroyed in the Roman destruction of the temple in 66 - 70 C.E.

Jehovah therefore rejected the Jewish system and expanded his approval to the Gentile followers of Christ.

But Christianity is hardly any better off. Paul foretold the future apostasy of Christendom and their preference over myth and legends. The soul isn't immortal. Jesus didn't die on a cross. The Bible doesn't teach hell, the rapture, the trinity. . . if you read in the Bible that the soul is mortal, it dies, then don't let the so called scholars change your thinking. Listen to what they say but don't put your trust in them, or anyone else, including me, gurus, the Pope, Rabbis, Bible Scholars, or even the apostles and disciples of Jesus.

Your spiritual growth isn't dependent upon, or the responsibility of the intellectual, the scholar, or any of those mentioned above. It is dependent upon you. It's your responsibility.
And likewise the inverse is true - if you read that the soul is immortal and that references to the death and life of the soul are relative states, don’t let so called “scholars” change your mind
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
According to the Jewish Scriptures, Jesus is not the messiah and since Christianity came from Judaism and tries to justify its messiah using Jewish Scriptures, it's fair to say he wasn't. You don't just get to redefine the term and then accuse the people who came before you, who own the Scriptures, of being wrong and misled.

I don't accuse people of being wrong/right; it's just a belief. It's something personal, subjective, hence I like RF rule 8.
I think it is natural that we learn from the past and so it's natural to redefine things. As a scientist I redefine till it is true
God is still not proven, so naturally there is lots of redefining. Fine with me. BUT agreed, we should not belittle others.
 

Earthling

David Henson
I thought you were suspicious of scholarship or research.

Not exactly. I question it as I believe one should. Anyone has access to it these days. In the past reading and studying the Bible was a capital crime. The notion that anyone, especially anyone prone to cling to tradition has a superior knowledge, immediately calls for caution in my mind.
 
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