Adopting Middle Eastern Faiths as the end all to be all

[Sakeenah]

Islam, just like Christianity, violently persecuted, oppressed, and enslaved Africans, and are responsible for an enormous amounts of terrorism, rape, mass-murder, and civil war in Africa, even in the 21st century!

How about abandoning Abrahamism, and going back to African Shamanism, before the Islamic and Christian invasion??

Incorrect..you should do some research on the spread of Islam in Africa. Conquest did not play a major role in the spread of the religion into the region.

 

[Spiderman]

Incorrect..you should do some research on the spread of Islam in Africa. Conquest did not play a major role in the spread of the religion into the region.

Arabs enslaved Africans before Europeans did. Muhammad was legally a white guy!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

 

[sayak83]

A couple Sikhs own some businesses in Compton growing up. Of course in the “hood” a lot of African-Americans tend to ignorantly assume southern Asians (Indians) as Arabs. At any rate, many of them (Sikh Indians) tend to have stereotypical attitudes towards African-Americans. Despite their god that is supposed to encourage benevolence, many have judged me based on the local crack heads as if we all the same. Many of them have bad attitudes.

Hindus are an interesting bunch. They tend to own some of the most nasty run down motels in the hood. Ironic cause in almost everyone of them when you approach the window you see a picture of their god with the symbolic symbol of a “red dot” on their head. I remember when I needed a place to stay because I was intoxicated at a party dress shirt, slacks and nice pants and all I was turned away. I was very polite despite being intoxicated and I pleaded that I just needed a place to stay due to my intoxication. He declined due to claiming there was no vacancy.

Out of curiousity, I called the same place and pretended to be a “white guy” and miraculously there was a vacancy. Then I told the man I was the same guy who was told that there was no vacancy. He stuttered and hung up. Point is, growing up most people of these faiths simply do not like us despite my polite demeanor because I am in the same boat. My grievance is simply cultural. But like Christians, I would expect their faith would encourage them to transcend their mindset above simple prejudices.

Hence is why I don’t trust them. Don’t call yourself a believer in your Brahaman or

Well, many Hindus don't understand their religion well at all. Even fewer apply its teachings in their lives. All of that is upto the individual person. So in many people you will certainly find vast differences between how they live and act and the principles that Hinduism suggests should govern one's life.
But I thought we were discussing the religions themselves and what they say and not how badly or well people practice it.

 

[Jumi]

How about abandoning Abrahamism, and going back to African Shamanism, before the Islamic and Christian invasion??

Being pushy doesn't sound too good, even though it's not "your religion" you're pushing.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What is the purpose of seeking truth if we are ultimately unwilling to make the changes and sacrifices necessary to embrace that truth? If we are not prepared to leave our in-group to become part of the out-group then we are not worthy receipts of that truth. To embrace the new we must be prepared to abandon the old.

I’m not saying there is an unwillingness to leave the in-group, however why leave my area to promote the story of another?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Well, many Hindus don't understand their religion well at all. Even fewer apply its teachings in their lives. All of that is upto the individual person. So in many people you will certainly find vast differences between how they live and act and the principles that Hinduism suggests should govern one's life.
But I thought we were discussing the religions themselves and what they say and not how badly or well people practice it.

I agree with you but my point is any member who believes in a doctrine of benevolence and is instructed to obey contradicts said doctrine based on their own behavior. Being human (as many Christians use to justify their own failings) is no excuse as to why an individual of said religion behaves irreligious of the moral principles in their doctrine.

I think this is why atheists and agnostics can only be held accountable for themselves because they are not bound by any doctrine that instructs them to be obedient. Sure there is a level of accountability for religionists, but perpetual disregard for morality that has been promoted by many of various religionists tend to circumvent what is the axiom of their faith.

In other words it is pointless to call yourself a Christian if you constantly hold racist views, or a Jew if you believe in the taking of innocent life that is non-Jewish or Muslim, if you believe people should be punished for having a different faith, or a Hindu if you believe in a caste system, or a Sikh if you hold illogical prejudices and phobias of an entire group of people.

Far too many use their human nature as an excuse for perpetual disregard for life and equality.

 

[Tumah]

I agree with you but my point is any member who believes in a doctrine of benevolence and is instructed to obey contradicts said doctrine based on their own behavior. Being human (as many Christians use to justify their own failings) is no excuse as to why an individual of said religion behaves irreligious of the moral principles in their doctrine.

I think this is why atheists and agnostics can only be held accountable for themselves because they are not bound by any doctrine that instructs them to be obedient. Sure there is a level of accountability for religionists, but perpetual disregard for morality that has been promoted by many of various religionists tend to circumvent what is the axiom of their faith.

In other words it is pointless to call yourself a Christian if you constantly hold racist views, or a Jew if you believe in the taking of innocent life that is non-Jewish or Muslim, if you believe people should be punished for having a different faith, or a Hindu if you believe in a caste system, or a Sikh if you hold illogical prejudices and phobias of an entire group of people.

Far too many use their human nature as an excuse for perpetual disregard for life and equality.

I disagree with this completely and I would argue that it's a fundamental principle in my religion that what you are saying here is wrong. A person is the product of his nature and his environment. The idea is to rise above the product you are, to become the product you should be. If it was just a matter of obeying or not obeying, without a struggle, there'd be no point to it all. What reward can there be for someone who didn't struggle against his anger, indifference, hatred, jealousy, passion, etc.? So yes, being human is a valid reason for behaving against the doctrines of their religion. Being human is the starting point.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I disagree with this completely and I would argue that it's a fundamental principle in my religion that what you are saying here is wrong. A person is the product of his nature and his environment. The idea is to rise above the product you are, to become the product you should be. If it was just a matter of obeying or not obeying, without a struggle, there'd be no point to it all. What reward can there be for someone who didn't struggle against his anger, indifference, hatred, jealousy, passion, etc.? So yes, being human is a valid reason for behaving against the doctrines of their religion. Being human is the starting point.

I disagree and if such is true then why have commandments in the first place?

 

[Sundance]

Islam, just like Christianity, violently persecuted, oppressed, and enslaved Africans, and are responsible for an enormous amounts of terrorism, rape, mass-murder, and civil war in Africa, even in the 21st century!

How about abandoning Abrahamism, and going back to African Shamanism, before the Islamic and Christian invasion??

Actually, Pope, those strictly speaking, did not involve exclusively Muslims. It was more an Arab thing in general.

 

[sayak83]

I agree with you but my point is any member who believes in a doctrine of benevolence and is instructed to obey contradicts said doctrine based on their own behavior. Being human (as many Christians use to justify their own failings) is no excuse as to why an individual of said religion behaves irreligious of the moral principles in their doctrine.

I think this is why atheists and agnostics can only be held accountable for themselves because they are not bound by any doctrine that instructs them to be obedient. Sure there is a level of accountability for religionists, but perpetual disregard for morality that has been promoted by many of various religionists tend to circumvent what is the axiom of their faith.

In other words it is pointless to call yourself a Christian if you constantly hold racist views, or a Jew if you believe in the taking of innocent life that is non-Jewish or Muslim, if you believe people should be punished for having a different faith, or a Hindu if you believe in a caste system, or a Sikh if you hold illogical prejudices and phobias of an entire group of people.

Far too many use their human nature as an excuse for perpetual disregard for life and equality.

None of this throws light on how you assess Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism per se compared to the Middle Eastern faith traditions. According to Hinduism or Buddhism, most people are stumbling around in the darkness of self delusion, and that is the fundamental cause of evils and suffering. Thus what you say regards people's failings in general, I have no reason to disagree with it.

 

[Tumah]

I disagree and if such is true then why have commandments in the first place?

It's the degree that one struggles to fulfill them that determines the degree of reward.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

None of this throws light on how you assess Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism per se compared to the Middle Eastern faith traditions. According to Hinduism or Buddhism, most people are stumbling around in the darkness of self delusion, and that is the fundamental cause of evils and suffering. Thus what you say regards people's failings in general, I have no reason to disagree with it.

Most religions have moral codes. Most religions promotes a suggestive attitude towards how you ought to be towards other people. Some of these suggestions are crystallized as rules but aside from that regardless whether they are rules or not, one shouldn’t use their humanity.

When I mentioned the Hindu during my time of need I felt “how does one show a picture of their god but exemplify inhospitable behavior?” This in itself continues hatred towards people of other faiths because the ones behavior can dictate how I perceive that religion.

 

[LuisDantas]

Most religions have moral codes. Most religions promotes a suggestive attitude towards how you ought to be towards other people. Some of these suggestions are crystallized as rules but aside from that regardless whether they are rules or not, one shouldn’t use their humanity.

Such a perspective is, far as I know, alien to most non-Abrahamic doctrines.

 

[sayak83]

Most religions have moral codes. Most religions promotes a suggestive attitude towards how you ought to be towards other people. Some of these suggestions are crystallized as rules but aside from that regardless whether they are rules or not, one shouldn’t use their humanity.

When I mentioned the Hindu during my time of need I felt “how does one show a picture of their god but exemplify inhospitable behavior?” This in itself continues hatred towards people of other faiths because the ones behavior can dictate how I perceive that religion.

One should not use their humanity?
Creating perceptions of religions based on encounters with some random individuals is a very fallacious approach in my opinion.

 

[Spiderman]

Incorrect..you should do some research on the spread of Islam in Africa. Conquest did not play a major role in the spread of the religion into the region.

I have. It was violent, brutal, and oppressive! Islam continues to bring chronic war, terrorism, mass-killings, and oppressive governments in Africa!

 

[Dawnofhope]

I’m not saying there is an unwillingness to leave the in-group, however why leave my area to promote the story of another?

If it is the Will of God then the reason will become apparent through following His Teachings. Sometimes you need to travel through a door to better appreciate what's on the other side.

 

[Spiderman]

Incorrect..you should do some research on the spread of Islam in Africa. Conquest did not play a major role in the spread of the religion into the region.

You should do some research:
"Over 110 Million Blacks were killed by Islam.

... a minumum of 28 Million African were enslaved in the Muslim Middle East. Since, at least, 80 percent of those captured by Muslim slave traders were calculated to have died before reaching the slave market, it is believed that the death toll from 1400 years of Arab and Muslim slave raids into Africa could have been as high as 112 Millions. When added to the number of those sold in the slave markets, the total number of African victims of the trans-Saharan and East African slave trade could be significantly higher than 140 Million people. -- John Allembillah Azumah, author of The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa: A Quest for Inter-religious Dialogue
https://www.quora.com/Which-religio...of-deaths-of-infidels-over-its-entire-history

@Epic Beard Man
Muhammad was a white guy. His policies oppressed and killed many African nations and destroyed African culture. If I was you I would stick with actual beliefs, faith, and morals that were practiced in Africa before the Arab and European invasion!

Once again, my problem is not with Islamic faith. My problem is with Islamic government and laws!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You should do some research:
"Over 110 Million Blacks were killed by Islam.

... a minumum of 28 Million African were enslaved in the Muslim Middle East. Since, at least, 80 percent of those captured by Muslim slave traders were calculated to have died before reaching the slave market, it is believed that the death toll from 1400 years of Arab and Muslim slave raids into Africa could have been as high as 112 Millions. When added to the number of those sold in the slave markets, the total number of African victims of the trans-Saharan and East African slave trade could be significantly higher than 140 Million people. -- John Allembillah Azumah, author of The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa: A Quest for Inter-religious Dialogue
https://www.quora.com/Which-religio...of-deaths-of-infidels-over-its-entire-history

@Epic Beard Man
Muhammad was a white guy. His policies oppressed and killed many African nations and destroyed African culture. If I was you I would stick with actual beliefs, faith, and morals that were practiced in Africa before the Arab and European invasion!

Once again, my problem is not with Islamic faith. My problem is with Islamic government and laws!

Your source is Quora? that is not even a legitimate research source. True there are Arab influences regarding slavery but that is besides the point. Also, you need to actually stop spreading false assumptions regarding Muhammad's lineage. Muhammad was not a "white guy" and I would appreciate you not hijacking the thread discussing your issues regarding Islamic expansion. Also, I'm a grown man I don't need any commandments from you. The basis of this thread isn't even about Islam specifically, you're making it about it. This stuff is really getting on my nerves.

 

[Sakeenah]

I disagree with this completely and I would argue that it's a fundamental principle in my religion that what you are saying here is wrong. A person is the product of his nature and his environment. The idea is to rise above the product you are, to become the product you should be. If it was just a matter of obeying or not obeying, without a struggle, there'd be no point to it all. What reward can there be for someone who didn't struggle against his anger, indifference, hatred, jealousy, passion, etc.? So yes, being human is a valid reason for behaving against the doctrines of their religion. Being human is the starting point.

Very true. This reminds me of a saying by a classical islamic scholar.

" Never have I dealt with anything more difficult than my own soul,which sometimes helps me and sometimes oposes me."( Imam Ghazali)

 

[Spiderman]

Also, you need to actually stop spreading false assumptions regarding Muhammad's lineage. Muhammad was not a "white guy" .

"Since 1944 Arabs have been considered white by law. "
https://medium.com/gender-theory/arabs-in-proximity-to-whiteness-7fd0e89dd7fb

And the last post you quoted was totally on topic because I was explaining why there are African Religions that are more compassionate and less bigoted and violent than Abrahamic middle-eastern Religions.