Adam and eve

[Shadow Wolf]

Noah did Not have to know because God directed the animals to the Ark.
Yes, this was before the Constitution of the Mosaic Law came into effect.

So, you don't even know what I'm referring to, because Noah's story with animals involved more than the two of every kind on the ark.

 

[blü 2]

It says that Adam and Eve's disobedience caused them to lose paradise.

No.

It does not.

Not anywhere.

Instead it says, out loud and plain, that God's fear they'd become [his] rivals caused them to be tossed out of Eden.

It's not hard to understand how the curse God pronounced has affected all of mankind since. Especially if you read the whole Bible.

Curse? Snakes still bite people, if that's what you mean. But by and large you have to bug them first.

 

[blü 2]

In the meantime yes, we should as you say, live good lives, treat our neighbours well, be kind to each other while there is still time.

Well, not so much, while there is still time, more, because that's generally the most promising course of action.

That is the only answer those old Hebrews ever got; in the Psalms, Ecclesiastes, Job. To live good lives, keep the commandments, “Be still, and know that I am God”.

We materialists are a bit skimpy on that part in quotes, but the idea of a society where mutual decency is the norm is one I continue to find most positive.

And finally in the Gospels, that “ye should love each other, as I have loved you.”

I don't use 'love' in that sense. I keep that word for my close personal relationships. But decency works fine.

I don't think we're too far apart.

Or as the Angel said to Adam in Paradise lost (sorry);

“Nor love thy life, nor hate; but what thou liv’st, live well,
how long or short permit to heaven”.

I accept your apology ...

 

[blü 2]

In God's eyes a thousand years is as a DAY, so Adam would die within that thousand-year time frame - Genesis 5:3

No, it simply doesn't say that. And the idea that a thousand years is but a day is from much later in the writing of the bible. first mentioned Psalms 90.4 (where it's a simile, not a principle of chronology ─ a thousand year "are like", not a thousand years "are"). In the Torah the day is sundown to sundown as it says specifically in Genesis 1.

Disobeying man is called a crime. Disobeying God is called a sin. Adam and Eve disobeyed their God.

The Garden story is unambiguous ─ when Eve at the fruit, she did not have knowledge of good and evil, and when Adam ate the fruit he did not have knowledge of good and evil. Therefore neither of them was capable of forming an intention to do wrong, therefore neither of them was capable of sin.

Nor, in the Garden story, does God ever say they've sinned, never uses the word 'sin' at all, not even once. And God states very clearly WHY [he] chucked them out of the Garden ─ to prevent them from becoming immortal like [him] (Genesis 3:22-23) and for no other reason.

 

[Wildswanderer]

we were speaking of grown ups, not children

I thought you believed they were innocent, which is another way of saying child like?

 

[Wildswanderer]

No.

It does not.

Not anywhere.

Instead it says, out loud and plain, that God's fear they'd become [his] rivals caused them to be tossed out of Eden.
Curse? Snakes still bite people, if that's what you mean. But by and large you have to bug them first.

You are aware that God pronounced a curse right? Have you actually read the book? He not only cursed the snake but the land, and declared that child birth would be painful for the woman.

 

[blü 2]

You are aware that God pronounced a curse right? Have you actually read the book? He not only cursed the snake but the land, and declared that child birth would be painful for the woman.

Yes, this Mark I version of God has a thoroughly vicious streak, a kind of immaturity that goes with a Trumpian morality.

Thus, as you've read, it wasn't disobedience that got Adam and Eve pitched out of Eden ─ it was God's fear that if they ate of the Tree of Life and lived forever, they'd become his rivals ─ don't take my word for it, read Genesis 3:22-23.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes, this Mark I version of God has a thoroughly vicious streak, a kind of immaturity that goes with a Trumpian morality.

Lol, who are you, o man, to talk back to God?

 

[rational experiences]

When you own a topic one you should mean one. God one word it's word.

Adam and eve is two. Two words.

God and the serpent is two.

Humans always natural were one of each as presence two the same.

Adam cannot be two.
Eve is stated as one.

Adam eve two. The topic.

Yet Adam is stated two of.

Adam is stated man.

Two of man not real.

So you would question the thesis why. As the bible is an answer why. It is not a debate known.

Good evil known after in the too late circumstance as science you did not know evil as a man. Yet you caused your own evil.

And it was a man's science thesis confession.

He fooled himself by space womb female inferred maths calculus of natural perusal. His thesis.

So you ask man today did you speak on behalf of any natural massed presence? Not debating just asking.

No.

What did you listen to?

Cloud recorded imaged feedback. Satanic angel inference.

Today did we live again after ice age and science by thesis was resought?

Yes. Pyramid science that had destroyed all life on earth. No debate archaeology proved we lived before.

How and why? Not a debate.

I told everyone that a satanic act had sent humans to hell. I reviewed it. Was once part of bible teaching.

Now to be human you are present living. To theory about good or evil.

Image is just a spirit. Not good or evil. Memories.

Did the theist know God by memory had attacked life by pyramid thesis?

Yes. Information says so. He knew. No debate.

Yet he did it anyway. Not a debate it is a confession.

What difference did end to beginning want or own?

Clouds that snaked by tube effect spirals in atmosphere. Clouds presence versus natural God history.

Cloud mass today satanic memory plus ice never existed in the end. Before.

It owned a new life support beginning.

Man set alight even sky night for six days as his invention daylight. Copying. The day of course became extremely hot also.

Seventh day burning stopped leaving sky God imbalanced as eve. UFO burning gas effect.

Gods natural first balances removed by man's introduced sin of the knowledge good versus evil. God never the same balances since.

Science did it.

Man blamed the mother of science space womb for attacking harming his body changing his bones.

Confessed the evil maths female did it. By status name eve.

As a human being female is his life equal. No debate as man said so.

Man already one a human as one.
Man Hu man. Said it twice in theory.
Man man.

Bible a confession. Or I confess Sion.

No debate. Reason all humans present own arguing about words they read.

 

[blü 2]

Lol, who are you, o man, to talk back to God?

I'm blü 2. But I'm not talking to God, any more than I'm talking to Sherlock Holmes or Donald Duck. I'm talking, at this moment, to my dear colloquist Wildswanderer,

 

[Dan From Smithville]

God specifically told them not to eat the fruit from that tree. It was an issue of obeisance.

So they did not know evil or desire it prior to eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yet they had to be capable of committing an evil act prior to eating in order to disobey and eat. So, they committed evil without knowing what it was they were doing.

Maybe the story is just what it appears to be. A metaphor.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Does a child have to understand evil in order to obey mom and dad's instructions?

That wasn't the question.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So they did not know evil or desire it prior to eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yet they had to be capable of committing an evil act prior to eating in order to disobey and eat. So, they committed evil without knowing what it was they were doing.

Maybe the story is just what it appears to be. A metaphor.

A metaphor for what?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You are aware that God pronounced a curse right? Have you actually read the book? He not only cursed the snake but the land, and declared that child birth would be painful for the woman.

That was No ordinary snake in the grass, but that serpent was being used by Satan.
Kind of like when a ventriloquist uses a dummy.
So, Not snakes in general cursed, but Satan cursed ( that particular snake in the grass ) was cursed.
Cursed to die for Jesus will destroy that serpent Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B.

Yes, do to loosing their physical health is why child birth would be painful, etc.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So they did not know evil or desire it prior to eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yet they had to be capable of committing an evil act prior to eating in order to disobey and eat. So, they committed evil without knowing what it was they were doing.....

Sure they knew what evil was according to Genesis 2:17.
It says you break the law ( do not eat ) and you will die. Death was the evil.
They already had knowledge of the good ->the opportunity to continue to live forever on Earth in perfect health.
Serpent Satan, that original snake in the grass, deceived Eve to eat. (He tricked her) - 1 Timothy 2:14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, it simply doesn't say that. And the idea that a thousand years is but a day is from much later in the writing of the bible. first mentioned Psalms 90.4 (where it's a simile, not a principle of chronology ─ a thousand year "are like", not a thousand years "are"). In the Torah the day is sundown to sundown as it says specifically in Genesis 1.
The Garden story is unambiguous ─ when Eve at the fruit, she did not have knowledge of good and evil, and when Adam ate the fruit he did not have knowledge of good and evil. Therefore neither of them was capable of forming an intention to do wrong, therefore neither of them was capable of sin.
Nor, in the Garden story, does God ever say they've sinned, never uses the word 'sin' at all, not even once. And God states very clearly WHY [he] chucked them out of the Garden ─ to prevent them from becoming immortal like [him] (Genesis 3:22-23) and for no other reason.

God did Not promise immortality to either angels or humans.
Adam was created mortal and could only live if obeying his God.
Genesis 2:17 the evil was death.
They already know the good, the opportunity to live forever in perfect health on Earth.

Yes, Psalm 90:4 comes later and even later is 2 Peter 3:8 that a thousand years is as a day in God's eyes.
In the Torah at Genesis 2:4 all the 6 creative days are summed up by the word ' DAY '.
So, as Jesus spoke of Noah's day, and we speak of grandfather's day, we know that is Not a single 24 hour day.

Jesus will bring us ' back to the garden ' - Revelation 22:2
We will have the same opportunity as originally given to Adam to live forever on Earth if we choose to obey God.

 

[blü 2]

God did Not promise immortality to either angels or humans.
Adam was created mortal and could only live if obeying his God.

My copy doesn't say that.

Genesis 2:17 the evil was death.

It was always death. Otherwise you wouldn't need a Tree of Life.

They already know the good, the opportunity to live forever in perfect health on Earth.

No, they did not. Instead God denied them knowledge of good and evil, They thus had no way of knowing what those were, let alone which was which.

Yes, Psalm 90:4 comes later and even later is 2 Peter 3:8 that a thousand years is as a day in God's eyes.

Yes, the simile "AS a day" ─ not, as you seek to argue, "IS a day". God is not speaking in figures of speech when [he] says, "for in the day that you eat of it you shall die". [He] means, eat the fruit and you'll be dead by sundown.

Jesus will bring us ' back to the garden ' - Revelation 22:2

That's a Christian add-on. Jesus isn't mentioned anywhere in the Tanakh.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Sure they knew what evil was according to Genesis 2:17.
It says you break the law ( do not eat ) and you will die. Death was the evil.
They already had knowledge of the good ->the opportunity to continue to live forever on Earth in perfect health.
Serpent Satan, that original snake in the grass, deceived Eve to eat. (He tricked her) - 1 Timothy 2:14

Death is not the evil. Disobeying God was the evil. But that still doesn't explain how innocents that do not know evil until they eat the fruit were capable of willfully committing the evil act of eating without the full knowledge that came from the eating.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Not a debate forum.
For those of you who are christians and believe in a literal interpetation of Adam and Eve...how could Adam and Eve know the serpent was lying? If they had no knowledge of good and evil until they ate the fruit how could they know that? Like they couldn't have known it was wrong to listen to the serpent if they didn't know good and evil?

Exactly - that is a very important thing to point out.

Without Knowledge of Good and Evil they were incapable of committing sin - but because they still had free will - they were capable of transgressing the commands given them by God.

The Genesis account records two possible levels of protection against condemnation extended to Eve when she partook of the fruit,

First - the record claims that the commandment to not partake of the fruit was given to Adam before Eve was formed - and it does not record God repeating Himself.

And it is apparent from her interaction with the serpent that Adam was the one who informed Eve about the commandment and that he even embellished upon it.

Because when the serpent asked Eve if she could eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil - she claimed that she could not even touch it lest she die - which is not what God told Adam.

Then later - after she had become convinced to partake of it - the record claims that she saw that the fruit was good for fruit - implying that up until that point she had not yet even looked at the fruit.

So - it becomes clear at least to me - that after Adam and Eve were married by God - Adam explained the commandment to her and told her that she would die if she were to even touch it and that she should refrain from even looking at it.

Why is this important?

She did not have a first-hand knowledge that that commandment came from God - she was only following that command based on her faith and trust in Adam.

This doubt is like a buffer - because if she had a perfect knowledge that the command came from God - she would have had no defense - no case to plead for mercy.

Second - she lacked a Knowledge of Good and Evil - she had no ability to detect deception - or to even comprehend such a concept.

So she acted - not in rebellion - but based on a desire to acquire wisdom - to become more like God - which is an admirable goal.

So it was her motivation - to be more like God - that also protects her from condemnation.

Adam - on the other hand - was not deceived - which implies to me that the serpent had most likely tried to entice him first.

Now - just like Eve - Adam also did not possess Knowledge of Good and Evil - so how did he avoid deception?

Simple - by hearing both the commandment to not partake and the consequence he would suffer if he were to partake straight from God - there was no room for doubt.

Unlike Eve - Adam knew - no matter what anyone or anything said - that he would die if he partook of the fruit - because he heard it straight from God and God could not lie.

However - he decided to partake of the fruit because he had a desire to keep God's other commandment - to procreate - and that required his remaining with Eve.

So - even though he knew that his partaking of the fruit would lead to his death - and possibly even the subsequent deaths of all his descendants - he desired to remained faithful to God's other commandment.

It's a good thing that God gave them both of those commandments - because without the second one - would Adam have decided to partake and leave with Eve or would he have decided to stay alone in the Garden?

Either way - I am so grateful that Eve was insightful enough to look passed the letter of the Law - and reach for wisdom - because it has started Mankind on the path to eternal joy and life.

And I am grateful to Adam for his willingness to sacrifice his own life so that we could have the opportunity to exist in this world and work out our salvation.

I believe that all of this was according to God's Plan.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Does a child have to understand evil in order to obey mom and dad's instructions?

Yesah, generally Moms and Dads explain what is good and what is bad, and the reason/s for it. Perhaps some dictator Mom or Dad would issue an order without explaining the pros and cons.