Adam and Eve and their children

[cgood]

Cain, Son of Adam and Eve moves East of Eden and takes a wife. Where did Cains wife come from?

 

[Rakhel]

try these threads for your answers.
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ir/114133-where-did-cain-obtain-his-food.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/111217-genesis-where-did-other-guys-come.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/biblical-debates/84227-who-women-cain-married.html


OH yeah!! and welcome to the forum

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Mom said that it's best not to think about those things.

 

[cgood]

Mom said that it's best not to think about those things.

Yes my mother said that too many years ago but it never worked with me. Thank you for the input.

 

[4given]

Cain, Son of Adam and Eve moves East of Eden and takes a wife. Where did Cains wife come from?

See my previous post from the other thread related to your question...

Sorry but I have to disagree.

Angels and humans can not breed together and produce offspring. They are entirely different kind of species. Angels are spiritual beings without sex organs while humans have flesh and bones. You can have billions of years but the macro-evolution of these two "species" - angels and humans - is not going to happen. God will not allow it simply because they even went in to trouble of producing other "species".... after his/their kinds in order for all of us be confined to our own kinds.

The "sons of God" were living creatures (prehistoric mankind) brought forth from the waters, abundantly ref. Gen. 1:21. They were given almost the same blessing... to be fruitful and multiply... on the 5th day (Gen. 1:22)... similar to the blessings Adam and Eve received on the 6th day. That's where Cain's wife came from to cross breed with human kind.

IMHO based on the Scripture.

 

[Clear]

cgood asked in the opening post : “Cain, Son of Adam and Eve moves East of Eden and takes a wife. Where did Cains wife come from?”

In the earliest Judao-Christian texts it is clear that Cain took one of his sisters to wife.

“And Cain took his sister Awan, as a wife, and she bore for him Enoch at the end of the fourth jubilee... (Jubilees - the book of division) 4:9

Some of the earliest texts infer that part of the envy cain felt towards abel had to do with abels wife being more desirable than the sister cain married.

Clear
sefumr

 

[Rakhel]

In the earliest Judao-Christian texts it is clear that Cain took one of his sisters to wife. Some of the earliest texts infer that part of the envy cain felt towards abel had to do with abels wife being more desirable than the sister cain married.

Clear
sefumr

Which texts?

 

[Sweetvoice]

The "sons of God" were living creatures (prehistoric mankind) brought forth from the waters, abundantly ref. Gen. 1:21. They were given almost the same blessing... to be fruitful and multiply... on the 5th day (Gen. 1:22)... similar to the blessings Adam and Eve received on the 6th day. That's where Cain's wife came from to cross breed with human kind.

Wow, my ancestors could be from the watery world. That explan why I can swim.

 

[Thief]

Cain, Son of Adam and Eve moves East of Eden and takes a wife. Where did Cains wife come from?

Man was created on Day Six...as a species.

Chapter Two is a separate event.

Adam is a chosen son of God.
Eve is his cloned twin sister.
She had no navel.

Cain had to choose from outside the garden event.

But that's if you want the book...literally.

 

[Clear]

Clear posted in post #6 :

cgood asked in the opening post : “Cain, Son of Adam and Eve moves East of Eden and takes a wife. Where did Cains wife come from?”

In the earliest Judao-Christian texts it is clear that Cain took one of his sisters to wife.

“And Cain took his sister Awan, as a wife, and she bore for him Enoch at the end of the fourth jubilee... (Jubilees - the book of division) 4:9

Some of the earliest texts infer that part of the envy cain felt towards abel had to do with abels wife being more desirable than the sister cain married.

Clear

Rakhel asked in post #7 “Which texts”



Hi Rakhel, I’ve seen multiple texts referring to this early tradition, and can think of three. As examples :

Though the testament of Adam DOES indicate that the brothers have several frustrations (in addition to the traditional enmity mentioned in the biblical text), the text also goes into greater detail regarding other frustrations Cain has with Abel. Speaking to Seth, Adam said : “You have heard, my son Seth, that a flood is coming and will wash the whole earth because of the daughters of Cain, your brother, who killed your brother Abel out of passion for your sister Lebuda...”and after the flood there will be six thousand years (left) to the form of the world, and then its end will come.” (Testament of Adam 3:5)


The fuller textual tradition is that Cain and Abel were each born twins to a sister. One history relates that Cain’s twin sister “Kelemat” was beautiful and Abel twin sister “Lebuda” was plain. Adam instructs each brother to marry the other brothers twin. Cain wanted the more beautiful twin who married Abel. I do not remember the text where adam commands Cain that he cannot marry HIS twin but he should marry Abel’s twin (if for some reason this is an important tradition to you, I can look this specific command by adam up and source it for you)

This history is also mentioned in the Christian “book of the Bee”. Budge’s translation from Syriac says :

“ WHEN Adam and Eve went forth from Paradise, they were both virgins. After thirty years Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived p. 25 and brought forth Cain together with his sister Kelêmath at one birth1. And after thirty years Eve conceived and brought forth Abel and Lebôdâ his sister at one birth. And when they arrived at the age for marriage, Adam wished and intended to give Abel's sister to Cain and Cain's sister to Abel; but Cain desired his own sister more than Abel's1. Both (i.e. Kelêmath and Lebôdâ) were his sisters, but because of their birth at one time I have called them thus. Now Cain's sister was exceedingly beautiful. “

The early textual traditions describe multiple motives for Cain’s murder of Abel and Cain’s jealosy and his greed were merely two of them in the early traditions.

Rakhel, good luck coming to your own beliefs and understanding of these things

Clear
acfuim

PS : I just remembered that the text where adam commands Cain to marry Kelimath is in the text "The cave of Treasures". It is as follows :

"And Eve conceived and brought forth Cain and Lebhûdhâ, his sister, with him; and Eve conceived again and she brought forth Hâbhîl (Abel) and Kelîmath, his sister, with him.And when the children grew up, Adam said unto Eve, "Let Cain take to wife Kelîmath, who was brought forth with Abel, and let Abel take to wife Lebhûdhâ, who was brought forth with Cain." And Cain said unto Eve his mother, "I will take to wife my twin sister Lebhûdhâ, and let Abel take to wife his twin sister Kelîmath"; now Lebhûdhâ was beautiful. When Adam heard these words, which were exceedingly displeasing unto him, he said, "It will be a transgression of the commandment for thee to take [to wife] thy sister, who was born with thee.

Cave also relates the killing of Abel by Cain and relates that "And God drove him [cain] forth into exile in a certain part of the forest of Nôdh, and Cain took to wife his twin sister and made the place of his abode there."

ps ps : You'll notice that The Book of the Bee makes Kelîmath the twin sister of Cain, and Lebhûdhâ the twin sister of Abel.

The story may be found in other texts but since the story was not important to my interests, I've not sourced elsewhere (that I remember...)

 

[Rakhel]

They are not important to my beliefs or my tradition,with one minor exception. You stated these were Judeo-Christian texts. These books are not Jewish in any way outside of the attepmt to make them such.

 

[4given]

Wow, my ancestors could be from the watery world. That explan why I can swim.

Yes, science finally agreed after so many years of speculation.... that all living things originated from the waters... as documented in Genesis 1:20-21.

 

[Clear]

Clear quotes a "Judao-Christian" text : “And Cain took his sister Awan, as a wife, and she bore for him Enoch at the end of the fourth jubilee... (Jubilees - the book of division) 4:9

Rakhel said “They are not important to my beliefs or my tradition,with one minor exception. You stated these were Judeo-Christian texts. These books are not Jewish in any way outside of the attepmt to make them such.

You need to re-read my post, and the appelations I am applying. Jubilees is certainly (and OBVIOUSLY) Jewish as it’s qumranic presence proves.

However, when a text is known to be a sycretic document such as Enoch, which is Jewish in origin but taken over (in the main) as a Chistian document in in later renditions, I tried to make the distinction clear that such texts are “judao-christian”. Texts such as “Christian - book of the bee” is almost purely christian.

The Old Testament (as well as New) is also “Judao-Christian” since the old testament IS of Jewish origin, though it is also a Christian Scripture as well (especially in it’s christian iterations and translationS). It is, “Judao-Christian”.

The New Testament is “judao-Christian” since it originates among Jews who were also Christians. The 10 commandments are a "Judao-Christian" doctrine - both Jews AND Christians hold them as true. Rabbi Symeon who holds the christ child up and prophesies "Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is spoken against (Lk 2:34)" is a "judao-christian. He is a Jew who believed in the child Jesus as the messiah. Though he is Jewish, the story of him and especially his sons starts in Jewry and finds it's way deep into the Christian descensus literature.

There is no need to debate about everything Rakhel. If you can think of better terms for syncretic documents that have both Jewish AND Christian elements, we can use any term you wish IF it is descriptive and accurate.

Also, I very much agree with you that these traditions are not particularly important to anyones salvation and that they are only traditions (unless someone cares to dig more into them, enough to call them "doctrinal" - I didn't care enough to do so).

Good luck in your own journey Rakhel

Clear
eitzeioo

 

[Rakhel]

Those three books you mentioned earlier are not judeo anything. I'm not arguing. I am stating Jewish belief and thought. If they were, don't you think I would have known what you were talking about in the first place?

 

[Clear]

rakhel claimed : “Those three books you mentioned earlier are not judeo anything. I'm not arguing. I am stating Jewish belief and thought. If they were, don't you think I would have known what you were talking about in the first place?

Rakhel, you ARE arguing and No Rakhel, I do NOT think you or Jews generally, are any more intelligent or knowledgeable about religious history than christians are about Judao-Christian religious documents. That is one of the great ironies since Christians often THINK Jews are better informed about "all things jewish".

However, it still remains perfectly true that Jubilees is very, very Jewish. IF there are other books that I specifically named as “judao-Christian” that are incorrectly named so, tell me their names and where I named them incorrectly. If I was wrong, I do not mind having made a mistake and I will appreciate anyone who points out a specific mistake so as to allow me to correct it.

However, you, as someone who claims to be Jewish, are simply incorrect about Jewish Jubilees. It IS Jewish in origin. (Though I, as a christian, often refer to it’s text) If you deny Jubilees is Jewish in origin, then, you are NOT knowledgeable in historical Jewish belief and thought on this specific point. In fact, the sheer fact that you are arguing about Jubilees NOT being Jewish, discredits your claim to knowledge ABOUT historic Judaic beliefs.


Why don't you simply google Jubilees, or the Dead Sea Scrolls, or Qumran, or Jews of the dead sea, etc. and read about Jubilees. If you google it, basic information is very, very easy to get and it will help you to understand that Jubilees was Jewish.

Someone on the forum, google "jubilees" for Rakhel, tell us what you find.

Clear.

 

[gnostic]

As Clear have stated. The Book of Jubilees, a Pseudepigrapha text, stated that both Seth and Cain married their sisters. A translation (translated by R H Charles, 1917) can be found in Sacred Texts website (The Book of Jubilees).

The Book of Jubilees is the only text that named a lot women married to the early Patriarchs.

If anyone (particularly cgood) is interested, they can view my genealogy page (Dark Mirrors of Heaven - Genealogy: Descedants of Adam, according to Book of Jubilees) based on The Book of Jubilees, at Dark Mirrors of Heaven.

Hope this help.

 

[Rakhel]

Forget it.

 

[esmith]

The major problem is taking the Bible as a totally "literal" book, it is not.

 

[Sweetvoice]

The major problem is taking the Bible as a totally "literal" book, it is not.

By that you mean certain parts or portion of the bible. But how do you choose/tell which is literal and which allegorically? The bible is read by many of different language learning. How the hack to read it. Couldn't the bible be more clear and straight with its words, rather than confusing and up for everyone interpretation instead.

 

[esmith]

By that you mean certain parts or portion of the bible. But how do you choose/tell which is literal and which allegorically? The bible is read by many of different language learning. How the hack to read it. Couldn't the bible be more clear and straight with its words, rather than confusing and up for everyone interpretation instead.

No the Bible is a redaction of many writings. In some stories, you could use a "logical" approach. For instance, are the first 11 chapters of Genesis logically possible, or could they be adaptations from previous legends from an earlier civilization. Is it possible for a story to be "made-up" to explain an idea. Remember, the transmission of ideas and beliefs were by a oral to aural means. What makes a good story, what would keep an audience listing and enjoying a "story". In some instances exaggerations was used to make the subject of the story seem grander and invoke pride. Do you really think that the early Jewish conquests were as grandiose as portrayed or were they "fudged" to instill pride or other reasons? If I might make a suggestion, obtain a "study bible". I for one like the Fully Revised Fourth Edition of the New Oxford Annotated Bible, New Revised Standard Version (copyright 2010) It also has the Apocrypha.