If'n it ain't secret, it ain't a conspiracy (IMO).You refer to the secret protocol, I presume.
Otherwise it's just a plan.
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If'n it ain't secret, it ain't a conspiracy (IMO).You refer to the secret protocol, I presume.
I know of the agreement. It sounds, however, that the secret protocol was somehow very insidious. Is it because it pointed to the USSR's interest in annexing those areas?If'n it ain't secret, it ain't a conspiracy (IMO).
Otherwise it's just a plan.
What I meant was that the official Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact itself was neither secret nor a conspiracy.If'n it ain't secret, it ain't a conspiracy (IMO).
Otherwise it's just a plan.
More than that. Imagine how much more successfulI know of the agreement. It sounds, however, that the secret protocol was somehow very insidious. Is it because it pointed to the USSR's interest in annexing those areas?
True dat.What I meant was that the official Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact itself was neither secret nor a conspiracy.
It was the secret protocol to it that was.
The Mukden Incident:Howdy people of RF.
I'm hoping you can all help me with something I'm thinking about. Many people have mentioned that I appear to need help thinking clearly, here's your chance!!
What I'm interested in are the largest conspiracies you are aware of. I don't need a huge amount of information on them (just a blurb is fine) since I'm happy to use some google-fu on the details.
What I'm not interested on are conspiracy theories. I much prefer examples of large-scale conspiracy which have been proven to be true.
Doesn't matter to me how recent they are. I mean, down the track it may, but not at this point of my little thought exercise.
I'm happy to share what my brain is chewing on at some point, but in the very short term I'd prefer not to. I'm not sure if it would colour people's responses or not.
So...bring it on. Large scale conspiracies that have proven to be ACTUAL conspiracies, and not just possible/theoretical/tin foil hat ones.
Thank you to everyone who's responded so far.
There are many good ideas here. In a way I feel bad for crowd-sourcing my research but at the same time this has given me a nice spread of things and removed some risk of my bias.
I'll spend some time trying to group the ideas.
As some have no doubt guessed, I'm trying to organise my thoughts on when and where conspiracies are successful, and how they are uncovered.
I don't doubt that conspiracies occur, and also don't doubt many conspiracy theories are bunkum. Between those two poles is what I'm trying to better understand.
So...please don't take my lack of response to each post as disinterest. I'm very interested, but trying not to drop into conversations and debate based on my interest or background on some of what's been put forth.
You'll have to decide if the Debeers diamond cartel was secret for very long and whether it was ever a conspiracy or something else.
Well, Watergate, Saudi involvement in 9/11, Gulf of Tonkin, and MK Ultra are all things that were once thought to be conspiracy theories, but later turned out to be conspiracy fact.Howdy people of RF.
I'm hoping you can all help me with something I'm thinking about. Many people have mentioned that I appear to need help thinking clearly, here's your chance!!
What I'm interested in are the largest conspiracies you are aware of. I don't need a huge amount of information on them (just a blurb is fine) since I'm happy to use some google-fu on the details.
What I'm not interested on are conspiracy theories. I much prefer examples of large-scale conspiracy which have been proven to be true.
Doesn't matter to me how recent they are. I mean, down the track it may, but not at this point of my little thought exercise.
I'm happy to share what my brain is chewing on at some point, but in the very short term I'd prefer not to. I'm not sure if it would colour people's responses or not.
So...bring it on. Large scale conspiracies that have proven to be ACTUAL conspiracies, and not just possible/theoretical/tin foil hat ones.
Not really. Whichever conspiracy a conspiracy theorist subscribes to about the JFK assassination, they have one idea in common: the idea that it takes a huge amount of effort and skill to kill a president.The way I saw it was one of two ways:
1. If the Conspiracy Theorists were correct, then a military coup took place and America is not the "free" country that everyone thinks it is. If that's true, then the LNers are, in effect, opposing justice and freedom in the United States. That makes the LNers into truly horrible people.
2. If the Conspiracy Theorists were not correct, then their theories are nothing more than idle speculation which harms no one - except perhaps the government, but I'm sure they'll survive. No harm, no foul, so why would the LNers get their panties in a bunch over someone's "theory"? Why do they get so emotional, as if it's a matter which affects them personally?
Howdy people of RF.
I'm hoping you can all help me with something I'm thinking about. Many people have mentioned that I appear to need help thinking clearly, here's your chance!!
What I'm interested in are the largest conspiracies you are aware of. I don't need a huge amount of information on them (just a blurb is fine) since I'm happy to use some google-fu on the details.
What I'm not interested on are conspiracy theories. I much prefer examples of large-scale conspiracy which have been proven to be true.
Doesn't matter to me how recent they are. I mean, down the track it may, but not at this point of my little thought exercise.
I'm happy to share what my brain is chewing on at some point, but in the very short term I'd prefer not to. I'm not sure if it would colour people's responses or not.
So...bring it on. Large scale conspiracies that have proven to be ACTUAL conspiracies, and not just possible/theoretical/tin foil hat ones.
Not really. Whichever conspiracy a conspiracy theorist subscribes to about the JFK assassination, they have one idea in common: the idea that it takes a huge amount of effort and skill to kill a president.
There's a weird sort of comfort in that, because it suggests that catastrophes are rare and will have plenty of warning signs that we, if we're diligent enough, can spot so that we can stop these catastrophes before they happen.
The alternative: the idea that a president can be killed by a single angry individual with mediocre marksmanship skills and a mail-order rifle, suggests that things are very vulnerable and precarious. This can be very discomforting (which is why, IMO, conspiracy theories are so appealing for many people: they provide a way to avoid grappling with this uncomfortable vulnerability).
So there really is a lot of danger in what conspiracy theorists peddle. They try to sell the idea that truly existential threats will involve so many people and moving parts that you can spot them coming with enough time to prepare for them if you're watchful enough.
This is kinda like telling people on a powerboat "don't worry about wearing your life jacket - if anything happens, you'll have time to put it on."
To a certain sort of mind, the idea that the world is controlled and directed by sinister, shadowy powers beyond our reach is more comforting than the idea or random stuff occurring. There's also the human tendency to blame others for our own failings. Can't find a job, afford a nice car or send the kids to a nice school? Blaming some evil entity is a lot more attractive than acknowledging the problem might be you. It's also easier and more satisfying to blame China for your economic wows than it is to confront the underlying causes.Not sure that I see it that way. I think the early conspiracy theories about JFK coincided with the Civil Rights movement and the anti-war movement, when the activities of the government were widely questioned and under greater scrutiny. I don't see that they were trying to give any comfort to people.
I agree that there might be some degree of harm from conspiracy theorists, although I don't think I would use the word "danger."
But one thing that seems to be a common thread among conspiracy theories is that they speak of powerful, colossal forces which are far beyond that of mortal men. Far from giving comfort, the message they send is that the elite are just sooooo powerful that there's nothing we can do, and we're all screwed no matter what we do. That's where I would find some basis of criticism against conspiracy theories. It may contribute to a lot of the political apathy and malaise we see out there.
However, there is one thing that conspiracy theories do call attention to, regardless of whether their theories are true or not. They call attention to the lack of transparency and the overall culture of secrecy which exists in government.
That's why I don't have a great deal of sympathy for the government if someone accuses them of some crime or other malfeasance - even if it's wild, convoluted, tinfoil hat type stuff. I'm actually somewhat amused by it, yet some people express such outrage that someone would actually accuse the government.
Again: not really.But one thing that seems to be a common thread among conspiracy theories is that they speak of powerful, colossal forces which are far beyond that of mortal men. Far from giving comfort, the message they send is that the elite are just sooooo powerful that there's nothing we can do, and we're all screwed no matter what we do. That's where I would find some basis of criticism against conspiracy theories. It may contribute to a lot of the political apathy and malaise we see out there.
To a certain sort of mind, the idea that the world is controlled and directed by sinister, shadowy powers beyond our reach is more comforting than the idea or random stuff occurring. There's also the human tendency to blame others for our own failings. Can't find a job, afford a nice car or send the kids to a nice school? Blaming some evil entity is a lot more attractive than acknowledging the problem might be you.
It's also easier and more satisfying to blame China for your economic wows than it is to confront the underlying causes.
Again: not really.
Even if a conspiracy theorist thinks that the world is being run by unseen overlords according to some evil plan, this still suggests that if you pay attention enough, you can learn the plan and adapt for it.
You can't do this if misfortune is chaotic and random.
Even the idea that things are unfolding according to an evil plan holds out the hope that an individual can use their own knowledge to control their own personal destiny.
Yes, however the idea of 'Stock' was invented to help individuals to compete in the market. You can buy a share of some large business, so you (who may be otherwise poor) can own part of a trade. You don't have to start the business or be clever or anything. You can even go in with someone else to buy a share.
I would say that every business "conspires" to make money.