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Accurate Knoweldge

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
My wife and I watched a kids movie last night about the Grinch that stole Christmas. It led me to thinking about various things, including the past thread I made on this website about adulterating pure worship.

The first thing we both noticed was how the town in the movie, the Whos' as they were called, got together to sing and eat together. We told each other, that's what Jehovah's Witnesses do all the time. Then I thought about it. I said, maybe this is one of the reasons unbelievers get so mad when you share with them the origin of their celebrations. They live in a society that is cruel and oppressive, where the dominant traits of 2 Timothy 3:1-6 are on full display. And they get a tantalizingly slim sliver of taste of the unity and love we bask in all the time. To many perhaps it is priceless. And you understand that.

My previous thread had to do with adulterating pure worship and how an unclean person could not be in a peaceful relationship with our God. Jehovah is a holy God:

"Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies.
The whole earth is filled with his glory
.”
-Isaiah 6:3.

Thusly declared one of the Seraphs standing above the throne of Jehovah God.

The high priest of Israel had "Holiness belongs to Jehovah" on a gold band on their forehead.-Exodus 28:36.

And since Jehovah is the superlative degree of holy, and the standard of all perfection he sets the requirements of pure worship. One of these requirements is to be holy as he is:

"You must be holy, because I am holy."-Leviticus 11:45.

Notice, God first and foremost is holy:

"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;
Righteous and upright is he
."
-Deuteronomy 32:4.

And then after setting the standard of holiness and providing the perfect example he expects his creation to imitate it.

That begs the question exactly what is holiness? And what it has to do with accurate knowledge?

Holiness according to the Biblical Encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures: "The state or character of being holy. Holiness means “religious cleanness or purity; sacredness.” Also, the original Hebrew qoʹdhesh conveys the thought of separateness, exclusiveness, or sanctification to God, who is holy; a state of being set aside to the service of God. In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the words rendered “holy” (haʹgi·os) and “holiness” (ha·gi·a·smosʹ [also, “sanctification”]; ha·gi·oʹtes; ha·gi·o·syʹne) likewise denote separation to God; they also are used to refer to holiness as a quality of God and to purity or perfection in one’s personal conduct."

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002055

Something that is holy is clean and pure. It is thusly sacred.

Take a clean cup of pristine pure mountain water. What would happen if you added a drop of deadly poison? Is is still unadulterated? Is it pure? No it has become polluted, adulterated, impure. It is no longer fit to be drunk.

The Bible likens the truth of God's word to water many times. It is life-giving water that bubbles up to impart everlasting life.

What type of water would you think that Jehovah God, the true God offers? Pure, or polluted?

And if God offers purity, why would he accept impurity in the worship given to him? Rather would he not give us instructions on purifying ourselves in order to approach the living and clean God?

"Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you indecisive ones."-James 4:8.

Everything about a person must be clean when approaching God, even his physical appearance and his attire, and the form of worship he offers.

That is why it is crucial to have "accurate knowledge" of truth:

"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him."-Ephesians 1:17.

In fact Jesus said that this is the type of worship that is acceptable, that of truth:

"God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”-John 4:24.

Notice that the Bible tells us that truth is required to worship God.

Let us take the following picture and use our power of reasoning to see if what is depicted is truth:


51740_888e6aecfd047a7fa3bc9945d78bb89a.jpg


Does this look like an accurate depiction from the Bible?

What is wrong with this picture?

If you were to say that the Bible account never says that the astrologers were in the manger with Jesus and the others when he was born you would answer correctly. This is inaccurate. The Bible account reveals that a supernatural star lead the astrologers from the east first to Jerusalem where they informed Herod of Jesus' birth, and then directly over the house of Jesus whom may have been 2 years old by the time they reached his house.

Does it really matter that the depiction is inaccurate? Isn't it just the spirit that counts?

Ask yourself why is the depiction wrong to begin with? Surely someone must have a Bible and is able to read it? What about the people who made up the tradition? And even if they somehow misread the information hasn't enough time passed to correct the inaccurate tradition?

Ask, why are false, inaccurate traditions good enough? Would Jehovah God really approve of lies such as the fact that Santa Claus exists

The Bible says that we need an accurate knowledge of truth to serve Jehovah appropriately. We need to be holy, clean, pure in our worship to him.

True, people have in earnest worshiped in ignorance. So when we learn that the way we were taught or believed or worshiped, or celebrated goes against God's standards of right and wrong, of good and bad what do we do?

If God is pure and holy and expects nothing less than purity and holiness with accurate knowledge of truth in service to him what do we do?

Do we conform to God's standards to please him or do we chose our own path? What do you think is the best way of doing things?


"Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Remove your evil deeds from my sight;
Stop doing bad.
Learn to do good, seek justice,
Correct the oppressor,
Defend the rights of the fatherless child,
And plead the cause of the widow.”
“Come, now, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah.
Though your sins are like scarlet,

They will be made as white as snow;
Though they are as red as crimson cloth,

They will become like wool."
Isaiah 1:16-18.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Then I thought about it. I said, maybe this is one of the reasons unbelievers get so mad when you share with them the origin of their celebrations. They live in a society that is cruel and oppressive, where the dominant traits of 2 Timothy 3:1-6 are on full display. And they get a tantalizingly slim sliver of taste of the unity and love we bask in all the time. To many perhaps it is priceless. And you understand that.
Really!!
When do unbelievers get so mad? Most non-believers celebrate Christmas and to a lesser extent Easter - not for the same reasons
Why do you think the unbelievers do not have friends and gatherings? If it were not for COVID, I'd be meeting many people in the next week or so. I have visited friends and family this week and will do so in coming weeks.
Do you really think we don't have love and unity? I also have religious friends and our friendship extends to them too.

IIRC Timothy3:1-6 refers to 'Leaders' and how they have to be good examples; faithful to wife, not after money, - too many of the faithful fall down too often on all these points
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I think you pose a strange but interesting question. Why do people seem to resent those who engage in such 'cult-like bliss'?

I had a friend many years ago who had lost a very good friend of his to the 'Moonies', and he was very upset about it. He asked me to go with him to this friend's house to try and talk him out of moving into the Moonie 'compound'; hoping that since they had only had two weeks or so to influence him, maybe we could still undo it.

But the friend was impervious. In just two week he had completely and fully fallen under the spell of the Moonie Church and there was no dissuading him. He was "happy as a clam, and about as smart", as they say. He believed he had found the Big Answer, and his new 'happy family', and that's all there was to it.

Turned out, though, that the new Moon initiate was in the U.S. on a student visa, so my friend called his parents in Japan and told them what was going on, and they had his visa pulled, forcing him to return to Japan, where the family virtually imprisoned him for almost two years to 'deprogram' him. Eventually, he got a good job and got married, and has had a good life, since.

But the point is that at the time, by his own admission, and by all appearances, he looked exceptionally happy being with the Moonies. So why was my friend so upset about it? Why did I try to help him change the man's mind? Why did his family go to so much trouble and expense to put a stop to all this supposed 'bliss'? Why weren't we all just happy for him?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Do we conform to God's standards to please him or do we chose our own path? What do you think is the best way of doing things?

Since this is in general debates, I'd say choose your own way. The consequence of choosing a path is only of value and consequence to those who believe in it.

So, if your path is to follow Jehovah, so be. I don't believe you'd be perfect and don't feel like it's good to try; it's a foregone conclusion. I also don't see using the bible as an idol to define your belief will answer your questions. Instead, as I quote Rainer Maria Rilke:

Don’t search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer. -1903 in Letters to a Young Poet

Maybe that's why people are looking and can't find the answers; they keep looking up.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
My wife and I watched a kids movie last night about the Grinch that stole Christmas. It led me to thinking about various things, including the past thread I made on this website about adulterating pure worship.

The first thing we both noticed was how the town in the movie, the Whos' as they were called, got together to sing and eat together. We told each other, that's what Jehovah's Witnesses do all the time. Then I thought about it. I said, maybe this is one of the reasons unbelievers get so mad when you share with them the origin of their celebrations. They live in a society that is cruel and oppressive, where the dominant traits of 2 Timothy 3:1-6 are on full display. And they get a tantalizingly slim sliver of taste of the unity and love we bask in all the time. To many perhaps it is priceless. And you understand that.

My previous thread had to do with adulterating pure worship and how an unclean person could not be in a peaceful relationship with our God. Jehovah is a holy God:

"Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies.
The whole earth is filled with his glory
.”
-Isaiah 6:3.

Thusly declared one of the Seraphs standing above the throne of Jehovah God.

The high priest of Israel had "Holiness belongs to Jehovah" on a gold band on their forehead.-Exodus 28:36.

And since Jehovah is the superlative degree of holy, and the standard of all perfection he sets the requirements of pure worship. One of these requirements is to be holy as he is:

"You must be holy, because I am holy."-Leviticus 11:45.

Notice, God first and foremost is holy:

"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;
Righteous and upright is he
."
-Deuteronomy 32:4.

And then after setting the standard of holiness and providing the perfect example he expects his creation to imitate it.

That begs the question exactly what is holiness? And what it has to do with accurate knowledge?

Holiness according to the Biblical Encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures: "The state or character of being holy. Holiness means “religious cleanness or purity; sacredness.” Also, the original Hebrew qoʹdhesh conveys the thought of separateness, exclusiveness, or sanctification to God, who is holy; a state of being set aside to the service of God. In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the words rendered “holy” (haʹgi·os) and “holiness” (ha·gi·a·smosʹ [also, “sanctification”]; ha·gi·oʹtes; ha·gi·o·syʹne) likewise denote separation to God; they also are used to refer to holiness as a quality of God and to purity or perfection in one’s personal conduct."

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002055

Something that is holy is clean and pure. It is thusly sacred.

Take a clean cup of pristine pure mountain water. What would happen if you added a drop of deadly poison? Is is still unadulterated? Is it pure? No it has become polluted, adulterated, impure. It is no longer fit to be drunk.

The Bible likens the truth of God's word to water many times. It is life-giving water that bubbles up to impart everlasting life.

What type of water would you think that Jehovah God, the true God offers? Pure, or polluted?

And if God offers purity, why would he accept impurity in the worship given to him? Rather would he not give us instructions on purifying ourselves in order to approach the living and clean God?

"Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you indecisive ones."-James 4:8.

Everything about a person must be clean when approaching God, even his physical appearance and his attire, and the form of worship he offers.

That is why it is crucial to have "accurate knowledge" of truth:

"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him."-Ephesians 1:17.

In fact Jesus said that this is the type of worship that is acceptable, that of truth:

"God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”-John 4:24.

Notice that the Bible tells us that truth is required to worship God.

Let us take the following picture and use our power of reasoning to see if what is depicted is truth:


51740_888e6aecfd047a7fa3bc9945d78bb89a.jpg


Does this look like an accurate depiction from the Bible?

What is wrong with this picture?

If you were to say that the Bible account never says that the astrologers were in the manger with Jesus and the others when he was born you would answer correctly. This is inaccurate. The Bible account reveals that a supernatural star lead the astrologers from the east first to Jerusalem where they informed Herod of Jesus' birth, and then directly over the house of Jesus whom may have been 2 years old by the time they reached his house.

Does it really matter that the depiction is inaccurate? Isn't it just the spirit that counts?

Ask yourself why is the depiction wrong to begin with? Surely someone must have a Bible and is able to read it? What about the people who made up the tradition? And even if they somehow misread the information hasn't enough time passed to correct the inaccurate tradition?

Ask, why are false, inaccurate traditions good enough? Would Jehovah God really approve of lies such as the fact that Santa Claus exists

The Bible says that we need an accurate knowledge of truth to serve Jehovah appropriately. We need to be holy, clean, pure in our worship to him.

True, people have in earnest worshiped in ignorance. So when we learn that the way we were taught or believed or worshiped, or celebrated goes against God's standards of right and wrong, of good and bad what do we do?

If God is pure and holy and expects nothing less than purity and holiness with accurate knowledge of truth in service to him what do we do?

Do we conform to God's standards to please him or do we chose our own path? What do you think is the best way of doing things?


"Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Remove your evil deeds from my sight;
Stop doing bad.
Learn to do good, seek justice,
Correct the oppressor,
Defend the rights of the fatherless child,
And plead the cause of the widow.”
“Come, now, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah.
Though your sins are like scarlet,

They will be made as white as snow;
Though they are as red as crimson cloth,

They will become like wool."
Isaiah 1:16-18.

I think that you have a very misinformed view of non believers and the origins of Christmas
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
My wife and I watched a kids movie last night about the Grinch that stole Christmas. It led me to thinking about various things, including the past thread I made on this website about adulterating pure worship.

The first thing we both noticed was how the town in the movie, the Whos' as they were called, got together to sing and eat together. We told each other, that's what Jehovah's Witnesses do all the time. Then I thought about it. I said, maybe this is one of the reasons unbelievers get so mad when you share with them the origin of their celebrations. They live in a society that is cruel and oppressive, where the dominant traits of 2 Timothy 3:1-6 are on full display. And they get a tantalizingly slim sliver of taste of the unity and love we bask in all the time. To many perhaps it is priceless. And you understand that.

My previous thread had to do with adulterating pure worship and how an unclean person could not be in a peaceful relationship with our God. Jehovah is a holy God:

"Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies.
The whole earth is filled with his glory
.”
-Isaiah 6:3.

.

If you watch the news, I can see how you would assign Timothy 3:1-3 to most of the folks in the world but really a majority of the people aren't like that.

Now I understand you believe in a jealous God Exodus 20:4-5. He probably doesn't like any celebrations not in his name.

Myself, I'm not really interested in a jealous God. As a parent, I don't need my kids having celebrations in my name. Don't require any worship from them. Mainly, I want them to be happy, really happy, with themselves, with their lives. Not some idea of happiness that other folks think they ought to pursue. I think that is where people get into trouble. Someone comes along and convinces them they have to follow one belief/religion or another to find peace and happiness. So they go off to pursue this idea of happiness before they learn what actually makes them happy.

Of course, God ain't got to listen to me but IMO God ought to allow humanity to seek peace and happiness under their own volition. So I have to give God a B- in the parenting department.

Now I understand God might judge me as a bad person because of this but I really think God needs to work on his game.

If I ever get to meet God it's one of the first things I'll bring up. I realize this might get me in trouble but if I don't bring it up, who will.

We all want God on his A-game. I'm banking on the idea that God will appreciate the feedback.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
My wife and I watched a kids movie last night about the Grinch that stole Christmas. It led me to thinking about various things, including the past thread I made on this website about adulterating pure worship.

The first thing we both noticed was how the town in the movie, the Whos' as they were called, got together to sing and eat together. We told each other, that's what Jehovah's Witnesses do all the time. Then I thought about it. I said, maybe this is one of the reasons unbelievers get so mad when you share with them the origin of their celebrations. They live in a society that is cruel and oppressive, where the dominant traits of 2 Timothy 3:1-6 are on full display. And they get a tantalizingly slim sliver of taste of the unity and love we bask in all the time. To many perhaps it is priceless. And you understand that.

My previous thread had to do with adulterating pure worship and how an unclean person could not be in a peaceful relationship with our God. Jehovah is a holy God:

"Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies.
The whole earth is filled with his glory
.”
-Isaiah 6:3.

Thusly declared one of the Seraphs standing above the throne of Jehovah God.

The high priest of Israel had "Holiness belongs to Jehovah" on a gold band on their forehead.-Exodus 28:36.

And since Jehovah is the superlative degree of holy, and the standard of all perfection he sets the requirements of pure worship. One of these requirements is to be holy as he is:

"You must be holy, because I am holy."-Leviticus 11:45.

Notice, God first and foremost is holy:

"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;
Righteous and upright is he
."
-Deuteronomy 32:4.

And then after setting the standard of holiness and providing the perfect example he expects his creation to imitate it.

That begs the question exactly what is holiness? And what it has to do with accurate knowledge?

Holiness according to the Biblical Encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures: "The state or character of being holy. Holiness means “religious cleanness or purity; sacredness.” Also, the original Hebrew qoʹdhesh conveys the thought of separateness, exclusiveness, or sanctification to God, who is holy; a state of being set aside to the service of God. In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the words rendered “holy” (haʹgi·os) and “holiness” (ha·gi·a·smosʹ [also, “sanctification”]; ha·gi·oʹtes; ha·gi·o·syʹne) likewise denote separation to God; they also are used to refer to holiness as a quality of God and to purity or perfection in one’s personal conduct."

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002055

Something that is holy is clean and pure. It is thusly sacred.

Take a clean cup of pristine pure mountain water. What would happen if you added a drop of deadly poison? Is is still unadulterated? Is it pure? No it has become polluted, adulterated, impure. It is no longer fit to be drunk.

The Bible likens the truth of God's word to water many times. It is life-giving water that bubbles up to impart everlasting life.

What type of water would you think that Jehovah God, the true God offers? Pure, or polluted?

And if God offers purity, why would he accept impurity in the worship given to him? Rather would he not give us instructions on purifying ourselves in order to approach the living and clean God?

"Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you indecisive ones."-James 4:8.

Everything about a person must be clean when approaching God, even his physical appearance and his attire, and the form of worship he offers.

That is why it is crucial to have "accurate knowledge" of truth:

"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him."-Ephesians 1:17.

In fact Jesus said that this is the type of worship that is acceptable, that of truth:

"God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”-John 4:24.

Notice that the Bible tells us that truth is required to worship God.

Let us take the following picture and use our power of reasoning to see if what is depicted is truth:


51740_888e6aecfd047a7fa3bc9945d78bb89a.jpg


Does this look like an accurate depiction from the Bible?

What is wrong with this picture?

If you were to say that the Bible account never says that the astrologers were in the manger with Jesus and the others when he was born you would answer correctly. This is inaccurate. The Bible account reveals that a supernatural star lead the astrologers from the east first to Jerusalem where they informed Herod of Jesus' birth, and then directly over the house of Jesus whom may have been 2 years old by the time they reached his house.

Does it really matter that the depiction is inaccurate? Isn't it just the spirit that counts?

Ask yourself why is the depiction wrong to begin with? Surely someone must have a Bible and is able to read it? What about the people who made up the tradition? And even if they somehow misread the information hasn't enough time passed to correct the inaccurate tradition?

Ask, why are false, inaccurate traditions good enough? Would Jehovah God really approve of lies such as the fact that Santa Claus exists

The Bible says that we need an accurate knowledge of truth to serve Jehovah appropriately. We need to be holy, clean, pure in our worship to him.

True, people have in earnest worshiped in ignorance. So when we learn that the way we were taught or believed or worshiped, or celebrated goes against God's standards of right and wrong, of good and bad what do we do?

If God is pure and holy and expects nothing less than purity and holiness with accurate knowledge of truth in service to him what do we do?

Do we conform to God's standards to please him or do we chose our own path? What do you think is the best way of doing things?


"Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Remove your evil deeds from my sight;
Stop doing bad.
Learn to do good, seek justice,
Correct the oppressor,
Defend the rights of the fatherless child,
And plead the cause of the widow.”
“Come, now, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah.
Though your sins are like scarlet,

They will be made as white as snow;
Though they are as red as crimson cloth,

They will become like wool."
Isaiah 1:16-18.

The entire Biblical Nativity story (either of the two conflicting versions in Matthew or Luke) is highly implausible historically and looks like myth. So it's bizarre to be nitpicky about the literal accuracy of an artistic rendering that attempts to make the two stories cohere, when the whole thing strains credulity to begin with.

Instead, I think most people, including Christians, try to use Christmas as an opportunity to show love for one another. Why anyone would find reason to object to that is rather disturbing, really.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
My wife and I watched a kids movie last night about the Grinch that stole Christmas. It led me to thinking about various things, including the past thread I made on this website about adulterating pure worship.

The first thing we both noticed was how the town in the movie, the Whos' as they were called, got together to sing and eat together. We told each other, that's what Jehovah's Witnesses do all the time. Then I thought about it. I said, maybe this is one of the reasons unbelievers get so mad when you share with them the origin of their celebrations. They live in a society that is cruel and oppressive, where the dominant traits of 2 Timothy 3:1-6 are on full display. And they get a tantalizingly slim sliver of taste of the unity and love we bask in all the time. To many perhaps it is priceless. And you understand that.

My previous thread had to do with adulterating pure worship and how an unclean person could not be in a peaceful relationship with our God. Jehovah is a holy God:

"Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies.
The whole earth is filled with his glory
.”
-Isaiah 6:3.

Thusly declared one of the Seraphs standing above the throne of Jehovah God.

The high priest of Israel had "Holiness belongs to Jehovah" on a gold band on their forehead.-Exodus 28:36.

And since Jehovah is the superlative degree of holy, and the standard of all perfection he sets the requirements of pure worship. One of these requirements is to be holy as he is:

"You must be holy, because I am holy."-Leviticus 11:45.

Notice, God first and foremost is holy:

"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;
Righteous and upright is he
."
-Deuteronomy 32:4.

And then after setting the standard of holiness and providing the perfect example he expects his creation to imitate it.

That begs the question exactly what is holiness? And what it has to do with accurate knowledge?

Holiness according to the Biblical Encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures: "The state or character of being holy. Holiness means “religious cleanness or purity; sacredness.” Also, the original Hebrew qoʹdhesh conveys the thought of separateness, exclusiveness, or sanctification to God, who is holy; a state of being set aside to the service of God. In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the words rendered “holy” (haʹgi·os) and “holiness” (ha·gi·a·smosʹ [also, “sanctification”]; ha·gi·oʹtes; ha·gi·o·syʹne) likewise denote separation to God; they also are used to refer to holiness as a quality of God and to purity or perfection in one’s personal conduct."

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002055

Something that is holy is clean and pure. It is thusly sacred.

Take a clean cup of pristine pure mountain water. What would happen if you added a drop of deadly poison? Is is still unadulterated? Is it pure? No it has become polluted, adulterated, impure. It is no longer fit to be drunk.

The Bible likens the truth of God's word to water many times. It is life-giving water that bubbles up to impart everlasting life.

What type of water would you think that Jehovah God, the true God offers? Pure, or polluted?

And if God offers purity, why would he accept impurity in the worship given to him? Rather would he not give us instructions on purifying ourselves in order to approach the living and clean God?

"Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you indecisive ones."-James 4:8.

Everything about a person must be clean when approaching God, even his physical appearance and his attire, and the form of worship he offers.

That is why it is crucial to have "accurate knowledge" of truth:

"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him."-Ephesians 1:17.

In fact Jesus said that this is the type of worship that is acceptable, that of truth:

"God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”-John 4:24.

Notice that the Bible tells us that truth is required to worship God.

Let us take the following picture and use our power of reasoning to see if what is depicted is truth:


51740_888e6aecfd047a7fa3bc9945d78bb89a.jpg


Does this look like an accurate depiction from the Bible?

What is wrong with this picture?

If you were to say that the Bible account never says that the astrologers were in the manger with Jesus and the others when he was born you would answer correctly. This is inaccurate. The Bible account reveals that a supernatural star lead the astrologers from the east first to Jerusalem where they informed Herod of Jesus' birth, and then directly over the house of Jesus whom may have been 2 years old by the time they reached his house.

Does it really matter that the depiction is inaccurate? Isn't it just the spirit that counts?

Ask yourself why is the depiction wrong to begin with? Surely someone must have a Bible and is able to read it? What about the people who made up the tradition? And even if they somehow misread the information hasn't enough time passed to correct the inaccurate tradition?

Ask, why are false, inaccurate traditions good enough? Would Jehovah God really approve of lies such as the fact that Santa Claus exists

The Bible says that we need an accurate knowledge of truth to serve Jehovah appropriately. We need to be holy, clean, pure in our worship to him.

True, people have in earnest worshiped in ignorance. So when we learn that the way we were taught or believed or worshiped, or celebrated goes against God's standards of right and wrong, of good and bad what do we do?

If God is pure and holy and expects nothing less than purity and holiness with accurate knowledge of truth in service to him what do we do?

Do we conform to God's standards to please him or do we chose our own path? What do you think is the best way of doing things?


"Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Remove your evil deeds from my sight;
Stop doing bad.
Learn to do good, seek justice,
Correct the oppressor,
Defend the rights of the fatherless child,
And plead the cause of the widow.”
“Come, now, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah.
Though your sins are like scarlet,

They will be made as white as snow;
Though they are as red as crimson cloth,

They will become like wool."
Isaiah 1:16-18.

Most wonderous art thou,
for thine is the Lord of
Self Righteousnes.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You’re right... the ‘world’ is nasty. 1 John 2 15-17
The “earth” (in the quoted Scripture), however, is beautiful...
The OP quoted Isaiah 6 which begins,

'In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. 3 And they were calling to one another:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty;
the whole earth is full of his glory.”'

Isaiah 6 (NIV)

Notice the past tense, it is not a vision of the future.
In context it appears to be saying that in the year King Uzziah died the earth is filled with God's glory, so which is it? Filthy or glorious?
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
You’re thinking of First Timothy 3. The OP mentioned 2 Timothy 3.
I stand corrected

2 Timothy 3 is the description of Trump
But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
One would think the world couldn't be filled with God's glory and a filthy place at the same time, so which is it?

They way I understand that statement that the whole earth is filled with Jehovah's glory is in the fact that all the universe, which would include the earth, is filled with God's glory. In the things he has created. It reminds us of what Psalm 19 says:

"The heavens are declaring the glory of God;
The skies above proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day their speech bubbles forth,
And night after night they reveal knowledge.
There is no speech, and there are no words;
Their voice is not heard
."
-Psalm 19:1-3.

Many times in the Bible things are written past tense as if they had already happened even when they are talking of future events. So while it is true, that at the time of Isaiah's vision not everyone alive were serving Jehovah, Jehovah's holy spirit was still operative upon his people and Jehovah had clean individuals such as Isaiah who were glorying his name. But in the future when wicked mankind is wiped from the earth and only righteous servants of Jehovah remain, then most certainly everyone living will be glorifying the name of God:

"For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Jehovah As the waters cover the sea."-Habakkuk 2:14.

"But on the other hand, as surely as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of Jehovah."-Numbers 14:21.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
They way I understand that statement that the whole earth is filled with Jehovah's glory is in the fact that all the universe, which would include the earth, is filled with God's glory. In the things he has created. It reminds us of what Psalm 19 says:

"The heavens are declaring the glory of God;
The skies above proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day their speech bubbles forth,
And night after night they reveal knowledge.
There is no speech, and there are no words;
Their voice is not heard
."
-Psalm 19:1-3.

Many times in the Bible things are written past tense as if they had already happened even when they are talking of future events. So while it is true, that at the time of Isaiah's vision not everyone alive were serving Jehovah, Jehovah's holy spirit was still operative upon his people and Jehovah had clean individuals such as Isaiah who were glorying his name. But in the future when wicked mankind is wiped from the earth and only righteous servants of Jehovah remain, then most certainly everyone living will be glorifying the name of God:

"For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Jehovah As the waters cover the sea."-Habakkuk 2:14.

"But on the other hand, as surely as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of Jehovah."-Numbers 14:21.
Ah so mental gymnastics to change past tense into future tense it is!
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
Ah so mental gymnastics to change past tense into future tense it is!

Umm..actually we started with your fallacy. You said that the earth is filthy. Where did you get that? I agree that mankind is ruining the earth. But surely the earth's creation shouts the glory of God:

"For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable."-Romans 1:20.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Accurate.
Everyone's human historic DNA parent the same in every country.

Science claim. They migrated from one original place.

Science also quotes. Just as a human thinking. Everything originally came from the same place

Natural humans first quote that thought is spiritual. Not science.

Science thesis big bang blast. Machine thesis reaction.

My parents human. Not any big bang blast live one whole life body after an ape.

Re a search. Animals and humans share many same bio chemicals.

Of no consequence. Human doing all the comparisons.

God O stone philosophy.

A natural human scientific thesis. To remove energy from its stone origins in machines designed by human thinker.

Accurately informed.

Said I owned living male baby born to two bio sexual human intercourse sex status living inside that heavenly status. Given by God. The heavenly spirit. Not the act of sex.

I exodus my DNA by father human in God science. I was sacrificed as the baby. Mutated. Moses teaching.

Immaculate support removed.

Thousands of years the saviour stone asteroids wandered. Replacing spirit gas mass back into space.

I was living a mutated baby sacrificed whilst it wandered.

I began to return into DNA in my holy land.

Babies healed miraculously.

It was a scientific teaching of relativity. Male human cause and effect. Science

The gift of life multi ice cooling years before the original baby son of man returned.

Then science attacked life again reusing temple pyramid. Same scenario re enacted.

As a baby has to be born to a human mother. Where did that human mother come from if Jesus a male baby was a son of a planet and it's gas heavens? Human named as God?

To teach accurate is basic use of natural human living information. By self present conditions.

If a human says the bio life before chosen science. Human conditions came out as a pre existing self. That teaching would be the eternal. An equal status which we own first.

If you believed we came from a spirit place.

If science says a highest cell presence microbe converted into a lower formed change. Then we would all just be microbes.

As highest presence is cell presence natural body. You cannot change into a higher cell.

Humans conscious own bio O healthy cell whilst it transforms into self removal. Lower forms. Where the idea came from.

The book was written on first advice. No man is God. Then it described how we got evicted out of the nature garden in ground nuclear fission.

Why the status said never give God O the earth a name again.

Accurate.
 
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