• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

according to the bible, is there actually a "hell"?

rocka21

Brother Rock
Read this
truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=456
then tell me how its wrong.


its not wrong, your artical says, there is a place called Hell. they just go back to the original language.

and o yeah...... let me give you a little quote from that artical.

No verse says that “hell” is a place of everlasting torment in fire.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


nice try........:beach:
 

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
The article doesn't entertain the idea of eternal torment. It instead entertains the idea of annihilation and that people sent to "the Lake of Fire" or Hell, will simply burn up like when you burn garbage.

Is that a correct assesment of your beliefs?
 
There is a verse, I'll post the referrence when I find it saying something to the effect of "the wicked will endure everlasting punishment." The bible outright says its forever, and you have to be concious to be punished.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
There is a verse, I'll post the referrence when I find it saying something to the effect of "the wicked will endure everlasting punishment." The bible outright says its forever, and you have to be concious to be punished.
I think you mean this one:
Matthew 25:46 (KJV)
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
There is a verse, I'll post the referrence when I find it saying something to the effect of "the wicked will endure everlasting punishment." The bible outright says its forever, and you have to be concious to be punished.
Chalk up another for the "Immortal Soul", an invention of the Greeks. Immortality is given at the end of the age to those who believe. (Apostle Paul)
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Nowhere in an accepted translation are the words "Immortal Soul"! Christian literature is filled with references, but not in the "Word of God". Go figure!

Shalom
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Chalk up another for the "Immortal Soul", an invention of the Greeks. Immortality is given at the end of the age to those who believe. (Apostle Paul)
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Nowhere in an accepted translation are the words "Immortal Soul"! Christian literature is filled with references, but not in the "Word of God". Go figure!

Shalom
Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

From Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible:Mat 25:46 -
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment - No appeal, no remedy, to all eternity! No end to the punishment of those whose final impenitence manifests in them an eternal will and desire to sin. By dying in a settled opposition to God, they cast themselves into a necessity of continuing in an eternal aversion from him.

But some are of opinion that this punishment shall have an end: this is as likely as that the glory of the righteous shall have an end: for the same word is used to express the duration of the punishment, κολασιν αιωνιον, as is used to express the duration of the state of glory: ζωην αιωνιον.

I have seen the best things that have been written in favor of the final redemption of damned spirits; but I never saw an answer to the argument against that doctrine, drawn from this verse, but what sound learning and criticism should be ashamed to acknowledge. The original word αιων is certainly to be taken here in its proper grammatical sense, continued being, αιειων, Never Ending. Some have gone a middle way, and think that the wicked shall be annihilated. This, I think, is contrary to the text; if they go into punishment, they continue to exist; for that which ceases to be, ceases to suffer. See the note on Gen_21:33, where the whole subject is explained.
Seems to me that Adam Clarke disagrees with you.
The note for Genesis 21:33 shows that the same word translated here into 'everlasting' is the same word used in Genesis 21:33 when referring to "the name of the LORD, the everlasting God."
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


From Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible:Mat 25:46 -
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment - No appeal, no remedy, to all eternity! No end to the punishment of those whose final impenitence manifests in them an eternal will and desire to sin. By dying in a settled opposition to God, they cast themselves into a necessity of continuing in an eternal aversion from him.​


But some are of opinion that this punishment shall have an end: this is as likely as that the glory of the righteous shall have an end: for the same word is used to express the duration of the punishment, κολασιν αιωνιον, as is used to express the duration of the state of glory: ζωην αιωνιον.​


I have seen the best things that have been written in favor of the final redemption of damned spirits; but I never saw an answer to the argument against that doctrine, drawn from this verse, but what sound learning and criticism should be ashamed to acknowledge. The original word αιων is certainly to be taken here in its proper grammatical sense, continued being, αιειων, Never Ending. Some have gone a middle way, and think that the wicked shall be annihilated. This, I think, is contrary to the text; if they go into punishment, they continue to exist; for that which ceases to be, ceases to suffer. See the note on Gen_21:33, where the whole subject is explained.​
Seems to me that Adam Clarke disagrees with you.
The note for Genesis 21:33 shows that the same word translated here into 'everlasting' is the same word used in Genesis 21:33 when referring to "the name of the LORD, the everlasting God."
So what if he disagrees with me? There is only one eternal, that is the one and only God-- Y H V H --he and only he is Eternal.
De 33:27
The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you, and said, Destroy.
In Torah there is no Everlasting Punishment. The Torah is the Word of God.
Question: How can there be complete happiness in your heaven if you son or daughter, mother or father is writhing in pain in your hell, Eternally?
God is love. A loving god would never punish a good man or woman, forever for not accepting Jesus!
But the wrath of God can consume someone (with the second death, lake of fire) who refuses to believe he exists and worships idols.
So as Yeshua HaMashiach says "You do greatly err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God."
Shalom
 

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt

If life is everlasting here then so is contempt.

Contempt being the same word used here translated as abhorring;

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

This verse should remind you of Jesus' allusion to it:


St. Mark 9:43-46 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt

If life is everlasting here then so is contempt.

Contempt being the same word used here translated as abhorring;

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

This verse should remind you of Jesus' allusion to it:


St. Mark 9:43-46 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
As far as I know these are all about the day of Judgement and the Fire coming to remove the workers of iniquity....
I find reincarnation and the Matrix in Job, so how or where does anything hide in the eyes of God?
There is a basement i saw in my NDE, yet the name Sheol being like soil is said best, in being of dense matter...
 

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
As far as I know these are all about the day of Judgement and the Fire coming to remove the workers of iniquity....
That's right, remove the workers of iniquity from the earth and they will be cast into hell to suffer everlasting contempt where their worm does not die and the fire is never quenched.
Imagine if you fell into physical gehenna, you could not get out and you were going to die there, eventually the worms would start eating at you and devouring you even before you had died but you would have some hope that eventually you would die and escape, in the real gehenna fire (of which the physical gehenna was an illustration) the worm does not stop eating at you because you never die, the contempt you suffer is everlasting because you are everlasting, the fire is never quenched because you are it's fuel for ever, without hope of ever escaping.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
That's right, remove the workers of iniquity from the earth and they will be cast into hell to suffer everlasting contempt where their worm does not die and the fire is never quenched.
Imagine if you fell into physical gehenna, you could not get out and you were going to die there, eventually the worms would start eating at you and devouring you even before you had died but you would have some hope that eventually you would die and escape, in the real gehenna fire (of which the physical gehenna was an illustration) the worm does not stop eating at you because you never die, the contempt you suffer is everlasting because you are everlasting, the fire is never quenched because you are it's fuel for ever, without hope of ever escaping.
Ok if the Vine is then to be burned, then why do people go along with it?
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
I am well pleased my God doesn't get his jollies by seeing Good people writhe in pain forever just because they didn't accept your man god.
Shalom
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
So what if he disagrees with me? There is only one eternal, that is the one and only God-- Y H V H --he and only he is Eternal.
De 33:27
The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you, and said, Destroy.
In Torah there is no Everlasting Punishment. The Torah is the Word of God.
Question: How can there be complete happiness in your heaven if you son or daughter, mother or father is writhing in pain in your hell, Eternally?
God is love. A loving god would never punish a good man or woman, forever for not accepting Jesus!
But the wrath of God can consume someone (with the second death, lake of fire) who refuses to believe he exists and worships idols.
So as Yeshua HaMashiach says "You do greatly err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God."
Shalom
Interesting.
Perhaps you needs ask someone who has a better understand of this meme than I.
I was merely presenting the information presented by Adam Clarke because he brings up a really interesting point.
However, since you obviously would rather not address that point...
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
2Pe 3:10, 2Pe 3:12, Re 20:14, Death and Hell are thrown into the lake of fire. In the new heaven and earth there is no sea, no sun, no mention of fire!
Adam Clark is not God! He only knows what is written! Then he forms his opinion.
Needless to say, but I'll say it, Adam Clark has come to the wrong conclusion.
He does greatly err.
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Chalk up another for the "Immortal Soul", an invention of the Greeks. Immortality is given at the end of the age to those who believe. (Apostle Paul)
You don't recieve it at the end, you recieve it when you believe the gospel, as in - "these thing write I unto you that believe in the name of the Son of God that ye may know that you have eternal life."
 
Top