Absence of good in atheism

[shunyadragon]

All cultures? Really? I think not. The barbarians had the same ethics? Nonsense.

Well, ah . . . how are you defining barbarians? Christians and Hebrews have a history of being very barbaric. In the old definition in Europe and Middle East everyone who was not Christian were Barbarians. Yes,by the objective verifiable evidence ALL cultures of the world have a history of consistent morals and ethics. European non-Christian cultures have a long history of evolved Common Law that we inherited in our legal system today.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Well, ah . . . how are you defining barbarians? Christians and Hebrews have a history of being very barbaric. In the old definition in Europe and Middle East everyone who was not Christian were Barbarians. Yes,by the objective verifiable evidence ALL cultures of the world have a history of consistent morals and ethics. European non-Christian cultures have a long history of evolved Common Law that we inherited in our legal system today.

So societies who tortured and sometimes ate parts of thier enemies are equal ethically to those who practice the Geneva convention rules?


So those who abolished slavery are equally moral to those who keep sex and work slaves and mistreat them?

 

[shunyadragon]

So societies who tortured and sometimes ate parts of thier enemies are equal ethically to those who practice the Geneva convention rules?

Including Christians for many including Native Americans, and Hebrews who claimed they were following God's orders.

So those who abolished slavery are equally moral to those who keep sex and work slaves and mistreat them?

Christians and Hebrews did this and had slaves for thousands of years, far more than Buddhists or Native Americans. Hebrews had slavery for foreigners and indentured servitude for Hebrews. The Baha'i Faith was among the first to forbid slavery of all kinds by spiritual law.

Nowhere in the Bible is any form of slavery forbidden. In fact Christians in history have used the Bible to justify slavery.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Including Christians for many including Native Americans, and Hebrews who claimed they were following God's orders.




Christians and Hebrews did this and had slaves for thousands of years, far more than Buddhists or Native Americans. Hebrews had slavery for foreigners and indentured servitude for Hebrews. The Baha'i Faith was among the first to forbid slavery of all kinds by spiritual law.

Nowhere in the Bible is any form of slavery forbidden. In fact Christians in history have used the Bible to justify slavery.

You didn't answer the question. There's no universal law of ethics, which is why we need the commandments for a guide.

 

[shunyadragon]

You didn't answer the question. There's no universal law of ethics, which is why we need the commandments for a guide.

Based on the evidence the 10 commandments do not provide any universal guide for morals and ethics. The question of slavery is a glaring example, which you have not responded to. Today the Baha'i Spiritual laws and guidance provide a better example of universal law today and slavery is a good example.

Actually non-Theistic societies like Buddhists have a better track record for morals and ethics in history than Christianity.

The morals and ethics in the 'Ten Commandments' are found in other cultures of the world.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Good Vs. Evil,
Truth Vs. Lie,
are religious terms.

They are not.

Thus, an atheist has become free from these old traditional ways of thinking.

No.

Atheist: "there are very Good atheists."
So, now we all agree, that there is Absolute Evil and Absolute Good in this world?

Atheist: "No, we don't."
So, there is no good in atheism.
Atheist: "Maybe try not to equivocate words like good and Absolute Good and try to have an honest dialogue."
I have the God given right to say anything if there are none of the absolutes. But there are absolutes. So, I stay by the "there is no good in atheism."[/QUOTE]

Doesn't follow.

Intellectually dishonest also and, ironically, you seem to realize it since you had your imaginary atheist accuse yourself of such.

Funny.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Based on the evidence the 10 commandments do not provide any universal guide for morals and ethics. The question of slavery is a glaring example, which you have not responded to. Today the Baha'i Spiritual laws and guidance provide a better example of universal law today and slavery is a good example.

Actually non-Theistic societies like Buddhists have a better track record for morals and ethics in history than Christianity.

The morals and ethics in the 'Ten Commandments' are found in other cultures of the world.

But not in all cultures as you claimed. And no you don't stop with the ten commandments, you read the sermon on the mount too. If you truly do unto others as you would have them do to you, slavery is out if the question.

 

[shunyadragon]

But not in all cultures as you claimed. And no you don't stop with the ten commandments, you read the sermon on the mount too. If you truly do unto others as you would have them do to you, slavery is out if the question.

Yes, all cultures, but the 'Ten Commandments' did not help Christianity historically one of the most violent religions in history. What cultures of the world with a written and traditional history do not have a history of codes of morals and ethics?

No slavery is not out of the question, and you brought it up. It is a major major moral and ethical issue in the history of the world. The 'Ten Commandments' cannot deal with the Universal without dealing with slavery, and other issues like rape.

 

[joelr]

But not in all cultures as you claimed. And no you don't stop with the ten commandments, you read the sermon on the mount too. If you truly do unto others as you would have them do to you, slavery is out if the question.

The sermon also days forget material things and do not take an oath. More examples of how humans create their morals by picking and choosing.
The 10 commandments start out with freedom of religion being completely out of the question.
So it's already absurd to think one religious book would dictate morals to everyone.

But to start you have to provide evidence that this book is actually true and not just stories created by highly educated people who understood wisdom, philosophy and how to create mythology. There is plenty of evidence that these stories were created the same way all religious scriptures were created, made up by people.

Also different people interpret words differently. There are hundreds of sects of Christianity who have drastically different views on salvation and all manner of topics.
If one wanted slaves they would make the argument that Paul said slaves obey your masters.

 

[joelr]

Good Vs. Evil,
Truth Vs. Lie,
are religious terms.
Thus, an atheist has become free from these old traditional ways of thinking.

Atheist: "there are very Good atheists."

So, now we all agree, that there is Absolute Evil and Absolute Good in this world?

Atheist: "No, we don't."

So, there is no good in atheism.

Atheist: "Maybe try not to equivocate words like good and Absolute Good and try to have an honest dialogue."

I have the God given right to say anything if there are none of the absolutes. But there are absolutes. So, I stay by the "there is no good in atheism."

Truth vs lie are not religious topics.
Atheism is just not believing in current stories about any Gods.
There isn't "absolute" anything. There are just people working together to create laws and morals the best we can.

Societies conquered territories and brutalized the natives who considered the invaders absolute evil. Yet the invaders were just expanding their nation and did not consider themselves evil.

The Persians thought there was absolute evil, Angra Mainyu was a pure evil spirit who wanted to destroy God and humanity. Same with most cultures during this time. But that was a story made up by people. Your religion is also a story made up by people. Israelites also had myths (in this case Satan was an agent of God doing his bidding until the Persian invasion and then Satan became more like Angra Mainyu) So again, no absolute evil. That is pretend.
We still see the concepts in fiction, the dark side of the force and so on. Not real.

 

[Viker]

Not sure if C S Lewis was mentioned in this thread or another, but I think he should have stuck to fiction if this is true.

Arguing that Morality Proves the Existence of God

Finally, Lewis argues that atheists contradict themselves when they act morally because they have no inherent basis for morality. Instead, he insists that they forget their ethical subjectivism and act like Christians — that they borrow from the morality of Christianity without acknowledging it.

It is far more likely that we mostly get our morality from our parents, peer group, and all others in our early environment, and any innate characteristics we might have, or lack - such that how can any of that be objective? I certainly feel I have a basis for my morality since it makes more sense than not having such, even when it might conflict with what any particular religious doctrine might say - and since they don't all coincide, why would anyone trust any particular one?

He should have stuck to fiction.

 

[night912]

Well, there's good and then there's bad.

 

[shunyadragon]

Well, there's good and then there's bad.

. . . and then there are Carolina blue skies,

 

[lukethethird]

Good Vs. Evil,
Truth Vs. Lie,
are religious terms.
Thus, an atheist has become free from these old traditional ways of thinking.

Atheist: "there are very Good atheists."

So, now we all agree, that there is Absolute Evil and Absolute Good in this world?

Atheist: "No, we don't."

So, there is no good in atheism.

Atheist: "Maybe try not to equivocate words like good and Absolute Good and try to have an honest dialogue."

I have the God given right to say anything if there are none of the absolutes. But there are absolutes. So, I stay by the "there is no good in atheism."

The existence of atheism is predicated on there being theism, so get used to it.

 

[rational experiences]

A theist wasn't good they were researching evil.

How to forcibly convert the body that men in science said was God.

 

[lukethethird]

Not sure if C S Lewis was mentioned in this thread or another, but I think he should have stuck to fiction if this is true.

Arguing that Morality Proves the Existence of God

Finally, Lewis argues that atheists contradict themselves when they act morally because they have no inherent basis for morality. Instead, he insists that they forget their ethical subjectivism and act like Christians — that they borrow from the morality of Christianity without acknowledging it.

It is far more likely that we mostly get our morality from our parents, peer group, and all others in our early environment, and any innate characteristics we might have, or lack - such that how can any of that be objective? I certainly feel I have a basis for my morality since it makes more sense than not having such, even when it might conflict with what any particular religious doctrine might say - and since they don't all coincide, why would anyone trust any particular one?

It appears that he did stick with fiction.