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Featured ABRAHAMICS ONLY: The Tree called the knowledge of good and evil, (Genesis: a closer look) continued.

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Yahcubs777, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    In Genesis 2:16-17 it is written:


    16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    If we look at this verse, you will see there is no causal link in eating the fruit and dying; simply because it was called the knowledge of good and evil; not the tree of dea
    th.

    This reveals it is a parable, and the truth is found in another Parable spoken by Jesus HIs Pre-Eminence.

    Matthew 7:16-20

    16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

    18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


    Notice, that HE makes it clear that there cannot be a tree that brings forth both good and evil? A corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit, a good tree brings forth good fruit. Ye shall know them by their fruits.

    So the question remains: What kind of a tree was that tree in that Genesis story? Was it a good tree, or an evil tree?

    GOD is the one that planted the tree. Can GOD plant an evil tree? Isaiah 45:7states that GOD creates evil:

    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    But John the Beloved contradicts that. 1 John

    5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

    So which is it?

    Let us think about this deeper: If GOD creates evil, that means that HE would need to first conceptualise evil, then brood on evil, and then bring it into reality. How does that agree with John: GOD is light, in HIM is no darkness at all.

    GOD cannot create evil. There is what Isaiah was revealing here which is something I will leave for now as its not easily understood unless you understand things like Matrixes of the earth, similitudes and adumbrations and then maybe you will understand adverse affects in GOD's Logos. So let me leave that aside.

    The point is, GOD created the tree, coooked the soup of the fruit, programmed the seed, planted the seed, and then told Father Adam the day he eats of it, he shall surely die.

    And the name HE called the tree does not agree with HIM and HIS Most Holy Character, nor does it agree with what HE said would happen. Therefore, there is much more to this.

    When you also take into account that Jesus His Pre-Eminence, who is the GOD in HIS incarnate Manifestation said that a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and vice versa, it shouldn't be ignored.

    So either the tree was a good tree or evil tree. And it brought forth evil fruit or good fruit; it can't bring forth both.

    If a person is honest in their studies of the Word, and is a seeker of the kingdom, they will be able to see this is not in agreement. How can there be a tree like that, and Jesus His Pre-Eminence said its impossible for a tree to be like that?

    So what do you think the tree is? Ye shall know them by their fruits.

    Disclaimer: no need to talk about context here, as i know HE was warning people against false prophets, and the fruits are their messages. But for a parable to work, it needs to be consistent, and Jesus HIs Pre-Eminence cannot lie. Therefore, saying it can't happen, means it can't happen.

    Therefore, let us be honest, and rather than try to explain based on the doctrine you have accepted, look at it as it was written; as a real event. This is a serious topic.

    I just want to say thank you to the people that have been in each of my threads as we look into genesis. We may not agree on some things, but I appreciate your contributions and hope you will continue to contribute.

    THANK YOU.
     
    #1 Yahcubs777, Mar 18, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  2. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was either good or evil. It was simply a tree that God forbid Adam to eat from. And therein lies the importance of the tree. That it was forbidden to eat.
    With the law comes the knowledge of sin.
    Adam sinned by eating of the tree. And he ate of the tree because the law is made weak by the flesh. IOW, Adam's desire of his flesh for the tree was greater than his desire to obey God.
     
  3. WhoIsBeast 750

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    what is a tree
    the tree can be shown as a good and a bad book (and there is good and evil in it to know it) in general this statement will be condemned but it is acknowledged in the bible
    as for the woman (not Eve) then it is the church if you stand for knowledge you read all the books and most things are explained there
     
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  4. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    It doesn't make sense. Thats the doctrine you accepted, its not what is written. How can Adam sin if he is not in a fallen state to sin? For it is written: What is born of GOD cannot sin. And Father Adam was born of GOD. At least, you read that GOD's Most Holy breath was breathed into his body, and that his body was coupled by GOD's Most Holy hands. Therefore, he was born of GOD.

    Neither desire, nor deception was the reason: 1 Timothy 2:14
     
    #4 Yahcubs777, Mar 18, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  5. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Mother Eve is the church yes, Father Adam is the husband of the church. It was a tree that they ate from, but astutely you recognise that the name given was not a tree. It seems we have someone here that is spiritual. My hope is that the side you are on is ours.

    Unlike many here, i too understand Spiritual realities.
     
  6. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    But there are plenty of trees which are not either fully good, nor fully evil. He did not teach there are only two types of trees, good or evil trees. But to say a fully evil tree cannot produce good fruit, nor a fully good tree produce evil fruit would be true. But are the majority of a trees either one extreme or the other?

    I do not believe so. If it was so, then there would be no good fruit at all in the world, which clearly there is.

    The tree in the story of Adam and Eve, was themselves, not a tree outside of themselves. They brought forth, both good, and evil from their tree. It's not about an external tree, but the internal tree of our lives that brings forth good fruit, or evil fruit.

    That is a takeaway from Jesus's teaching. Tend to your garden, tend to your tree, that it doesn't not become corrupted and fail to yield productive good fruits.

    Again, in the teaching of Jesus, the metaphor of the tree points to the person, not a literal tree in the earth. The tree that bore the fruit of error, was the humans that God created. Not the tree made of wood. The fruit, was the fruit of their hearts, producing error.

    Didn't God create the tree of Adam and the tree of Eve? Didn't God nurture them, program them to live and thrive and bear fruit in their lives? What happened? Was their sin God's creation? Yet, he created that tree called a human being.

    Says who? The Bible is actually quite clear that humans are capable of producing both types of fruit, from the same human being. This is true for each and every one of us.

    Teaching that we are either one thing or the other, is not realistic in any sense of the word, and it is not biblical as well.

    The tree is neutral. It what we do with the tree of our lives, that makes it either healthy, or sickens and weakens it. The fruits we bear, are indicators of the health of the tree. And the good news, is, we can make the tree healthy again, even if it's become sick.

    That's what "being saved" is about. Taking diseased trees, and allowing them to become healthy again, through proper tree maintenance and care. ;)
     
  7. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    Fruits metaphorical
     
  8. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    All trees created by GOD are good trees. GOD cannot create an evil tree. And yes, the Tree of Life was also mentioned being in the midst of the Garden. The two were contrasted, and the result makes sense when they are contrasted.


    1 John 3:9
    9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.



    Who said the tree was made of wood?


    No, HE created Man in HIS image, after HIS likeness. Male and female HE created he them. is GOD a tree?


    But we are talking about tree?


    Salvation is being saved from death. That has been the message from the beginning. Even in the Garden of Eden: The day you eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.
     
    #8 Yahcubs777, Mar 18, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  9. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying Adam didn't sin?

    Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.

    1 Tim 2:14 is not saying that Adam did not transgress, but that the woman transgresses by being beguiled.
     
  10. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Yes it does. It makes it very clear. Adam was not deceived or FOUND in the transgression.
     
  11. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    Okay, you take only the Scripture which suits your fantasy and I'll look at all of it.

    BTW, all 20 versions of the Scripture I have say the same thing in 1 Tim 2:14
     
  12. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Where do evil trees come from? Who created them? A different Creator? How many Gods are there?

    "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". Does this means, nobody is born of God?

    I think you were, as you took Jesus's teaching about good and evil trees, as literal trees, and not a metaphor about human hearts. Whether that tree is made of wood, or some other fibrous materials, those are not the trees Jesus was talking about.

    So Jesus was definitely was not talking about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden. Why did you make that comparison, when he clearly meant the human heart?

    Jesus was talking about the human heart and the fruit it bears, using trees as a metaphor. He was not giving a lesson in forestry. But God making humans in his image, does not mean God has a penis and a vagina both, because humans are made in his "likeness". That term 'image', or 'likeness', has nothing whatsoever to do with biology.

    If you quoted Jesus saying a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, he was talking about the human heart. That's really quite obvious from the context, isn't it?

    A metaphor is an "as if" statement, in the simplest understanding of them. A human's heart is "like" or "as if" it were a tree that is either healthy, or diseased. A diseased heart, produces bad fruit. A healthy heart produces healthy, or 'good' fruit.

    Do you not see this in Jesus' metaphor? Do you see that he isn't talking about literal trees, and that verse has nothing to do with the Genesis story?

    Salvation is just about being spared physical death? That's all it is?
     
  13. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    What version did I take? When GOD breathed the breath of life into Adams body, and that made him a living soul, is that not being born of GOD? And it is written; what is born of GOD cannot sin.

    However, you don't read the same concerning Mother Eve. You only read that her body was made from Adams rib. But that is all you read. So she was born of Adam, not GOD.

    Father Adam chose to eat the fruit for a reason. Neither deception or desire played any role in Adam eating the fruit. Just as Jesus His Pre-Eminence chose to be crucified. Is HE not called the 2nd Adam? Then what of that Adam in Genesis?
     
    #13 Yahcubs777, Mar 18, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  14. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Did you not read my disclaimer? Enoch and Elijah were in heaven in their glorified state when Saul Paul said those words. And even so father Adam and Mother Eve along with many of the children of the kingdom Jesus His Pre-Eminence resurrected, were also in their glorified state when Saul said these words. Therefore they had not fallen short of the glory.

    Jesus His Pre-Eminence is without sin, and therefore cannot lie, even in a metaphor. Else, the metaphor is not consistent and is no longer a working metaphor.
     
  15. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    Where does the Scripture say Adam was born of God?

    It says man was created by God when He formed him from the earth.
     
  16. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Where did the breath of life come from? Who else had that?
     
  17. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    It wasn't the Tree of Good and Evil. It was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil -- a knowledge they needed in order to be able to learn and to make choices.
     
    #17 Katzpur, Mar 18, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2021
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  18. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    What do you do with the verses that say Adam sinned?
     
  19. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Are you saying that not all humans have sinned? According the Paul, all have sinned, whether or not they are no longer sinners today.

    The point is, how could they have sinned if they were created as "good trees"? If disobedience is a sin, and sin comes from a corrupted tree, then Adam and Eve were corrupt trees, producing corrupted fruit. Right?

    If they had not fallen short of God, then why were they cast from the Garden and the whole of Creation fell? Was the fruit of disobedience, a good fruit that the tree of their lives produced? If it was an evil fruit, and only evil fruit comes from evil trees, then they had to have been evil, according to you. And that was how they were created.

    They couldn't have been good, and then became bad, if good alone was all they were.
     
  20. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    Why is my name attached to someone else's post?

    post #17
     
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