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Abrahamics only: The Nephilim

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So you win? Did you know that I won't play poker? And being from Boston I could not even spell it?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But as I said, it has nothing to do with creation. It could just as well be like a Chameleon's ability to blend in with his environment, the Angels are able to turn their Spiritual bodies into Physical with whatever attributes they were given. Nowhere does it say that their power to do so was granted by God, and nowhere does it say it's NOT granted by God. So yes it's a stalemate in a way, but only because of inability to disprove a negative, which really isn't a stalemate.

Is it your opinion that spirits can still do that?
 

Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
What? Are you posting to me?

The other words you post meaning they will be given bodies so that they might suffer more is God dishonoring imo.
First let me say that I am humbled by your opinion of me dishonoring God (I guess you believe you honor him more):bow: But before you start throwing stones, I'd also like to explain my point...
Is pain attributed to flesh? Throughout the Bible we see how we (humans) are subjected to pain and suffering because of our condemned flesh.
Did (some of) the fallen angels manifest a physical form? In the End times (after God's judgment or even before), will Satan and other fallen Angels manifest physical forms? The reason I ask these questions are 'cause of the following verses...
Matthew 25:41
Then the king will say to those on his left, “Get away from me! You are under God’s curse. Go into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels!---This verse mentions Satan and the fallen angels being condemned to hell.
Matthew 8:12
But the ones who should have been in the kingdom will be thrown out into the dark. They will cry and grit their teeth in pain.”---IDK :shrug:..but this verse could be referring to the fallen angels and those who strayed away from God.
1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.---This verse tells us people will not have the same flesh in heaven.
1 Corinthians 5:5
You must then hand that man over to Satan. His body will be destroyed, but his spirit will be saved when the Lord Jesus returns.---This verse tells us that the flesh will be destroyed but those who are saved through Jesus will have eternal life in spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:46
We see that the one with a spiritual body did not come first. He came after the one who had a physical body.---Those who will have spiritual Bodies will be purged of their fleshly bodies first.(This verse is also in reference to Christ)
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
42 That’s how it will be when our bodies are raised to life. These bodies will die, but the bodies that are raised will live forever. 43 These ugly and weak bodies will become beautiful and strong. 44 As surely as there are physical bodies, there are spiritual bodies. And our physical bodies will be changed into spiritual bodies.---(For those who are saved and blessed with eternal life)
Revelation 20:10

Then the devil who fooled them will be thrown into the lake of fire and burning sulfur. He will be there with the beast and the false prophet, and they will be in pain day and night forever and ever.---This verse implies Satan (and everyone else whose condemned to hell) will feel eternal pain and suffering.

So how can those condemned to hell feel physical pain without having a physical form?
(I think it's a legitimate question)

P.S.
Do you believe in the coming of the Anti-Christ? I ask because if it's hard for you to believe God would allow fallen angels to manifest a physical form, then why would God allow Satan (who's the leader of the fallen angels) to manifest a physical form?
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Huh? Explain your reasoning. You're basically defying the NT itself there. How do people give power to Satan? Did God just make a mistake by making him the "god of this age" and the "prince of this air" who is in charge of the authorities of the world? Is God incapable of stopping him?


That's not logical or scriptural by any standard. Explain how you possibly derive this.


You are comparing not just apples and oranges, but rocks and trees, your comparison of what constitutes being a "Creator" is completely your own opinion and makes no sense logically or scipturally.
James 1:13-15

13 No one undergoing a trial should say, “I am being tempted by God.” For God is not tempted by evil, and He Himself doesn’t tempt anyone. 14 But each person is tempted when he is drawn away and enticed by his own evil desires. 15 Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
That doesn't explain why Satan is given power over the ruling authorities, why he's the "prince of the air", and why he has the power over those who aren't in the Church. What does believing lies have anything to do with it? The only way that's accurate is by saying that those who believe in the total Truth are protected from him, which is what the NT implies, but everyone else (i.e. the 99.999999% rest of the world) is under his power.

Why not? Why would he give power to Satan to rule the authorities of the Earth and be the "Prince of the air" and the "god of this age"? I think your understanding of Satan's power is not congruent to what the NT says.
Well the answer is not No, the answer is a default yes until you can prove that he deliberately took this power from them. Until then, you have not disproven the NT claims that Satan is in control of pretty much the whole world and your answer of "people believing in lies" does not address this whatsoever except "Those who don't believe in lies are under God's protection from him", so if Satan is given that power over disbelievers, why not let the fallen Angels have power as well?

Those who are driven by desire for power and authority are particularly susceptable to delusion, no? See 2 Thess 2:1-12
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
First let me say that I am humbled by your opinion of me dishonoring God (I guess you believe you honor him more):bow: But before you start throwing stones, I'd also like to explain my point...
Is pain attributed to flesh? Throughout the Bible we see how we (humans) are subjected to pain and suffering because of our condemned flesh.
Did (some of) the fallen angels manifest a physical form? In the End times (after God's judgment or even before), will Satan and other fallen Angels manifest physical forms? The reason I ask these questions are 'cause of the following verses...
Matthew 25:41
Then the king will say to those on his left, “Get away from me! You are under God’s curse. Go into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels!---This verse mentions Satan and the fallen angels being condemned to hell.
Matthew 8:12
But the ones who should have been in the kingdom will be thrown out into the dark. They will cry and grit their teeth in pain.”---IDK :shrug:..but this verse could be referring to the fallen angels and those who strayed away from God.
1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.---This verse tells us people will not have the same flesh in heaven.
1 Corinthians 5:5
You must then hand that man over to Satan. His body will be destroyed, but his spirit will be saved when the Lord Jesus returns.---This verse tells us that the flesh will be destroyed but those who are saved through Jesus will have eternal life in spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:46
We see that the one with a spiritual body did not come first. He came after the one who had a physical body.---Those who will have spiritual Bodies will be purged of their fleshly bodies first.(This verse is also in reference to Christ)
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
42 That’s how it will be when our bodies are raised to life. These bodies will die, but the bodies that are raised will live forever. 43 These ugly and weak bodies will become beautiful and strong. 44 As surely as there are physical bodies, there are spiritual bodies. And our physical bodies will be changed into spiritual bodies.---(For those who are saved and blessed with eternal life)
Revelation 20:10

Then the devil who fooled them will be thrown into the lake of fire and burning sulfur. He will be there with the beast and the false prophet, and they will be in pain day and night forever and ever.---This verse implies Satan (and everyone else whose condemned to hell) will feel eternal pain and suffering.

So how can those condemned to hell feel physical pain without having a physical form?
(I think it's a legitimate question)

P.S.
Do you believe in the coming of the Anti-Christ? I ask because if it's hard for you to believe God would allow fallen angels to manifest a physical form, then why would God allow Satan (who's the leader of the fallen angels) to manifest a physical form?


Thank you for this! It is good. We have a difference of perspective. I cannot argue with you that the physical body will or will not suffer pain after death but you seem to have said God will provide something else after death that will be tortured. What that says to me is God will exercise his authority over the flesh only after a person dies. Which means God will not remove suffering from a person in this life but God will add suffering to a person after this life. You should think about that.

Anti-Christ coming? I am not a linear thinker. Anti-Christ is surely present, and has always been present for as long as man has had a conscience.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You maybe want to talk about 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4 on this thread?
if it's hard for you to believe God would allow fallen angels to manifest a physical form, then why would God allow Satan (who's the leader of the fallen angels) to manifest a physical form?

I can see that anti-christ. They are not demons. They are people. But I have to keep it to myself. It doesn't matter either way. People are entitled to their opinions but some opinions are headed strait for the fire.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why oh why? Because it makes no difference for good if I say it. My husband keeps saying "why do bother? No one is listening". And it's true, so why get myself in hot water by saying something that is slanderous? Be nice I say!
 

Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
I can see that anti-christ. They are not demons. They are people. But I have to keep it to myself. It doesn't matter either way. People are entitled to their opinions but some opinions are headed strait for the fire.
I'm sorry but I'm realy not too sure of what your trying to say here..
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Why oh why? Because it makes no difference for good if I say it. My husband keeps saying "why do bother? No one is listening". And it's true, so why get myself in hot water by saying something that is slanderous? Be nice I say!
Matt 7:21-23 says it clearly
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes, Matthew 7:21-23 clearly says there will be people who call on Jesus to save but do not listen to him. I do not know that there will be people like that. I know that there are people like that.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Yes, Matthew 7:21-23 clearly says there will be people who call on Jesus to save but do not listen to him. I do not know that there will be people like that. I know that there are people like that.
We are all in various states of growth. Notice how even Jesus was tempted in the wilderness? Notice how the scriptures say antichrist comes before the Kingdom of God?
Notice how Jesus expelled 7 demons from Mary Magdalene?

You usually have to lance a boil and clean out all the corruption before it can heal, no? Where does all that festering corruption go?
 
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