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Abrahamics only: The Nephilim
- Thread starter savagewind
- Start date
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Tranquil Servant
Was M.I.A for a while
according to the sources crossfire gave us...
Does this mean you don't trust the revised versions of the Bible?
What translation are you referring to? do you consider this translation to be more reliable than any other translation? if so, what are your reasons?
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I don't trust translated versions of the Bible.
It is not good to rely on any word.
Trust God. Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me John 14:1
The inspired word put together by The Holy Spirit means something.
It is what I think ALL means. People have translated "all scripture" as meaning every one. But I think it means all together.
New International Version (©1984)
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16
Let it speak to you.
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Short Definition: all, the whole, every kind of
Definition: all, the whole, every kind of
It is not good to rely on any word.
Trust God. Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me John 14:1
The inspired word put together by The Holy Spirit means something.
It is what I think ALL means. People have translated "all scripture" as meaning every one. But I think it means all together.
New International Version (©1984)
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16
Let it speak to you.
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Short Definition: all, the whole, every kind of
Definition: all, the whole, every kind of
Tranquil Servant
Was M.I.A for a while
You say you don't trust "translated versions of the Bible" but the New International Version (©1984) is also a translation; so is the King James version and every other English Bible. In order to get the true meanings, one would have to learn Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek; And find the oldest canonical manuscripts known today.
Also, we have many resources that could help us compare one translation to another and find explanations for these translations (like the footnotes in some Bibles). And with the internet, a person can take full advantage of the access to vasts' amount of information.
Yes. To get the true meaning one would need to trust The Spirit of Truth. The study I have been doing is with Biblos internet Bible study aids. I do comparisons. I can bring up related scriptures to compare them. I study the lexicon and look carefully at each word and search it's meaning. But that is even all opinion. That is why it is necessary to see the whole. Biblos.com: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages
Tranquil Servant
Was M.I.A for a while
Very good...so then, using your resources and online tools and taking into consideration the meaning of Giants (Nephilim), the sons of God and the daughters of men according to the lexicon, how would you interpret this verse (to the best of your understanding)? Specifically the part that's highlighted..
New International Version (©1984)
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
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Tranquil Servant
Was M.I.A for a while
This is a very good website to use. I like all the tools, parallel comparisons and the commentaries. Another website which is pretty Good is BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages..
It also has a variety of different Bibles you can compare; plus a dictionary and footnotes for explanations on certain verses.
I compare the Word with what I know about real life. The children they bore where no longer imbued with the fear of Yahweh but with the fear of demons. It is about learning. Or more precisely, how learning is accomplished. Joshua said "the Kingdom of God is near". It is my opinion it is always near. But because the women "had children by them" the demons standing against the Kingdom were put in the way of reaching God's Kingdom. The women allowed the wayward "sons of God" to get between their children and the goal. Now who are the children's fathers? But not physically, OK?
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The woman being described as 'beautiful' fits my scenario pretty well. Like I said it doesn't mean they were lovely to look at (why would the writer write that?). It means 'without a care' so they were not expecting the need to defend themselves. But not against physical assault. It was a spiritual assault. They were caught unaware.
The word 'beautiful' can means lots of things thanks to Biblos....
From towb; good (as an adjective) in the widest sense; used likewise as a noun, both in the masculine and the feminine, the singular and the plural (good, a good or good thing, a good man or woman; the good, goods or good things, good men or women), also as an adverb (well) -- beautiful, best, better, bountiful, cheerful, at ease, X fair (word), (be in) favour, fine, glad, good (deed, -lier, -liest, -ly, -ness, -s), graciously, joyful, kindly, kindness, liketh (best), loving, merry, X most, pleasant, + pleaseth, pleasure, precious, prosperity, ready, sweet, wealth, welfare, (be) well
The word 'beautiful' can means lots of things thanks to Biblos....
From towb; good (as an adjective) in the widest sense; used likewise as a noun, both in the masculine and the feminine, the singular and the plural (good, a good or good thing, a good man or woman; the good, goods or good things, good men or women), also as an adverb (well) -- beautiful, best, better, bountiful, cheerful, at ease, X fair (word), (be in) favour, fine, glad, good (deed, -lier, -liest, -ly, -ness, -s), graciously, joyful, kindly, kindness, liketh (best), loving, merry, X most, pleasant, + pleaseth, pleasure, precious, prosperity, ready, sweet, wealth, welfare, (be) well
Looks like the word "Giants" came from the Greek Septuagint.
It looks like the Septuagint uses the word gigantes for both the words nephilim and gibbowrim.
6:4 οἱ δὲ γίγαντες ἦσαν ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις ἐκείναις καὶ μετ᾽ ἐκεῖνο ὡς ἂν εἰσεπορεύοντο οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ θεοῦ πρὸς τὰς θυγατέρας τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ ἐγεννῶσαν ἑαυτοῖς ἐκεῖνοι ἦσαν οἱ γίγαντες οἱ ἀπ᾽ αἰῶνος οἱ ἄνθρωποι οἱ ὀνομαστοί
It looks like the Septuagint uses the word gigantes for both the words nephilim and gibbowrim.
Tranquil Servant
Was M.I.A for a while
O-K I can see your point of view and I'll take your theory into consideration. However, I'm still perplexed by verses such as these...
2 Samuel 21:20
There was another war, this time in Gath. One of the enemy soldiers was a descendant of the Rephaim. He was as big as a giant and had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot.
1 Chronicles 20:6
Another one of the Philistine soldiers who was a descendant of the Rephaim was as big as a giant and had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot. During a battle at Gath,
Deuteronomy 2:11
The Moabites called them Emim, though others sometimes used the name Rephaim for both the Anakim and the Emim.
Deuteronomy 3:11
[ Ogs Coffin ] King Og was the last of the Rephaim, and his coffin is in the town of Rabbah in Ammon. It is made of hard black rock and is thirteen and a half feet long and six feet wide.
2 Samuel 21:16
One of the Philistine warriors was Ishbibenob, who was a descendant of the Rephaim, and he tried to kill David. Ishbibenob was armed with a new sword, and his bronze spearhead alone weighed seven and a half pounds.
And it seems to me that all those scriptures support my view that the Nephilim have nothing to do with angel genetics or someone might have said so.
I am not denying there were Nephilim. I am saying they were not angels or descendants of angels. Or let's say they were never "fallen" angels or the children of "fallen" angels. Isn't it Greek to believe it? There is nothing wrong with Greek but their religion is all about gods and humans.
Now you'll say they did not know about genetics....or not....SIGH
Shermana
Heretic
How do those scriptures in any way support the view that they did not descend from the Fallen Angels?
What do you think of the "Angels who left their first estate" mentioned in Jude? Do you not think the author of Jude was referring his readers to the same story that was pretty much the defacto standard of the time?
Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.
And since Jude quotes Enoch 1:9 line for line, it's a safe bet to believe that he was referring to the same Book of Enoch that was widely accepted at that time.
The angels' position is under God as messengers. Hebrews 1:7 Regarding the angels, he says, "He sends his angels like the winds, his servants like flames of fire"
The spirits we are talking about were NOT sent by The Lord God. They went to do "their own thing" but not as bodies of flesh but as spirits of power. Doing their own thing is leaving their position under God. They are no longer for the Will of God. They are for their own will.
I think I'm done.
The spirits we are talking about were NOT sent by The Lord God. They went to do "their own thing" but not as bodies of flesh but as spirits of power. Doing their own thing is leaving their position under God. They are no longer for the Will of God. They are for their own will.
I think I'm done.
Shermana
Heretic
That doesn't say anything about the "Angels who left their first estate", they were still once His angels. They just no longer were His servants. That's why he locked them up and bound them.
The fact that they are under their own will and left the Divine chain of command all the more proves this concept that they were in fact once Angels but decided to leave Heaven and were thus punished for the carnage they caused.
I don't disagree with anything you say here.
I disagree with the belief that they were ever in the likes of man (flesh). Many people believe the spirits left their spirit position to become flesh. Their own flesh, not someone else's. I say "where did they get their flesh?" Is there any scriptural proof they have power to create? I don't think so. Where did they get the bodies they used to uh I want to say a word but it is not allowed. Please provide me a clue that you know what I'm saying. Not about the F word, but about the bodies.
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Tranquil Servant
Was M.I.A for a while
O-K...so where did the Nephilim come from? And before you answer, I'd like you to know I cannot accept the "atmospheric conditions" theory; simply because in the time before and after the flood there were giants and normal sized people who lived in the same areas. If one group of people are capable of growing to an extreme size, then why didn't all the people in the same area grow to an extreme size (not to mention the extra appendages).
Also, some people use Greek mythology to disprove the divinty of Jesus since some of the stories about heroic figures resemble that of Jesus and Greek mythology existed before the time of Jesus. You don't think the mention of "heros of old and men of renoun" in the Bible, have anything to do with Greek mythology? It's like I said on another thread, I believe lies and myths are exagerated and twisted versions of the truth. Lies are always inspired by truth and are opposites of one another. Even in the beginning of creation (of man), when God warned Adam and Eve of what would happen to them if they disobeyed; then Satan decieved Eve by twisting the truth.
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I think it is not possible to find truth while ignoring reality. Giants were more likely then because of atmospheric conditions, along with diet. Even with poor air quality and poorer nutrition there exists people of extreme size in modern times. But not everyone is large. Some people are actually quite small. [ I wonder if it's easier to pack being small? ]
Their largeness may have been mentioned because of a large person's fearsome countenance, but not necessarily real danger. In other words they may have caused panic just because they were big, not because they were bad.
I appreciate all contributions to the Nephilim thread. Is it my imagination that everyone but crossfire is skirting the question? You believe bodies of flesh are described at Genesis 6. Where did spirits get them?