Abrahamics only: The Nephilim

crossfire · Oct 25, 2012

Genesis 6:2

H802 'ishshah

1) woman, wife, female
a) woman (opposite of man)
b) wife (woman married to a man)
c) female (of animals)
d) each, every (pronoun)

crossfire · Oct 25, 2012

Genesis 6:4

Thereweregiants h5303נפיל nĕphiyl in the earth h776ארץ 'erets in those days; h3117יום yowm and also after h310אחר 'achar that, h3651כן ken when h834אשר 'asher thesons h1121בן ben ofGod h430אלהים 'elohiym came in h935בוא bow' the daughters h1323בת bath ofmen,h120אדם 'adam andtheybareh3205ילד yalad [children]tothem,thesameh1992הם hem [became]mightymenh1368גבור gibbowr which[were]ofold,h5769עולם `owlam menh582אנוש 'enowsh ofrenown.h8034שם shem

H935 בוא bow' [they] came in [unto the daughters of men]

1) to go in, enter, come, go, come in
a) (Qal)
1) to enter, come in
2) to come
a) to come with
b) to come upon, fall or light upon, attack (enemy)
c) to come to pass
3) to attain to
4) to be enumerated
5) to go
b) (Hiphil)
1) to lead in
2) to carry in
3) to bring in, cause to come in, gather, cause to come, bring near, bring against, bring upon
4) to bring to pass
c) (Hophal)
1) to be brought, brought in
2) to be introduced, be put

interesting...

Tranquil Servant · Oct 25, 2012

savagewind said:
I thought you said that if the people of Noah's day had been worshiping The True God they would have been able to strip the mighty Nephilim of their power. Just like David did Goliath. But there are mighty men who do evil right this second. They are not even angelic types. Why don't we "strip them of their power" like David did?

You said the key word "angelic." striping Humans of their financial or political power is much more different than striping false gods or Giants of their powers. We're not living in a day and age were we (humans) are facing powers we can't endure. (Revelation 3:9-11)The Bible says those who follow Christ must endure hardship but when the time comes that spiritual powers overwhelm mankind, God will surely interfere for the sake of the elect (Mark 13:19-21,2 Thessalonians 2).

crossfire · Oct 25, 2012

Gen 6:2 [they] took (H3947 - laqach) [them wives]

1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away
a) (Qal)
1) to take, take in the hand
2) to take and carry along
3) to take from, take out of, take, carry away, take away
4) to take to or for a person, procure, get, take possession of, select, choose, take in marriage, receive, accept
5) to take up or upon, put upon
6) to fetch
7) to take, lead, conduct
8) to take, capture, seize
9) to take, carry off
10) to take (vengeance)
b) (Niphal)
1) to be captured
2) to be taken away, be removed
3) to be taken, brought unto
c) (Pual)
1) to be taken from or out of
2) to be stolen from
3) to be taken captive
4) to be taken away, be removed
d) (Hophal)
1) to be taken unto, be brought unto
2) to be taken out of
3) to be taken away
e) (Hithpael)
1) to take hold of oneself
2) to flash about (of lightning)

rapture?

savagewind · Oct 25, 2012

Tranquil Servant said:
I know you said you can't help being judgmental but please remember what Christ said..Luke 6:36-38.

You asked IF what I believe is not true, do I think I can still be considered by God to be walking the way, the truth and the light? Well..I believe in Christ; I have faith that he is my savior and the messiah of God (just like I'm sure you do) so with that being said the understanding I have was given to me. Like Christ said "seek and you shall find" (Matthew 7:7) so I searched and this is what I found. If I'm wrong then God will be my Judge and I pray he will Judge me with mercy.
That isn't what Genesis 6 says. Early Christians (like the apostles who wrote the early canonical scriptures) held the "fallen angels" view. The scriptures of Enoch were considered canonical in Biblical times (and even now in Ethiopia).

I think "know Jehovah" actually means know Yahweh. Reading the scripture the old fashioned way is fine if you do not care to know The Father of Christ. Know Yahweh. Know what God will do and WON'T DO. God does not give creative power to evil people. Yahweh does not change. Malachi 3:6 For I am Jehovah, I have not changed, And ye, the sons of Jacob, Ye have not been consumed.

savagewind · Oct 25, 2012

I am a woman. I know what it is like to be raped like they say the woman were. But then of course the fans of the physical manifestation of God's sons imagine the women were lining up to be united with them. I don't believe it. The women were fooled just like Eve was. They did not realize they were being entered by unclean spirits. That is why it says they were 'good looking'. Oh, you think that means pretty? OMG

savagewind · Oct 25, 2012

Tranquil Servant said:
I know you said you can't help being judgmental but please remember what Christ said..Luke 6:36-38.

You asked IF what I believe is not true, do I think I can still be considered by God to be walking the way, the truth and the light? Well..I believe in Christ; I have faith that he is my savior and the messiah of God (just like I'm sure you do) so with that being said the understanding I have was given to me. Like Christ said "seek and you shall find" (Matthew 7:7) so I searched and this is what I found. If I'm wrong then God will be my Judge and I pray he will Judge me with mercy.
That isn't what Genesis 6 says. Early Christians (like the apostles who wrote the early canonical scriptures) held the "fallen angels" view. The scriptures of Enoch were considered canonical in Biblical times (and even now in Ethiopia).

And so do I.

savagewind · Oct 25, 2012

Tranquil Servant said:
You said the key word "angelic." striping Humans of their financial or political power is much more different than striping false gods or Giants of their powers. We're not living in a day and age were we (humans) are facing powers we can't endure. (Revelation 3:9-11)The Bible says those who follow Christ must endure hardship but when the time comes that spiritual powers overwhelm mankind, God will surely interfere for the sake of the elect (Mark 13:19-21,2 Thessalonians 2).

No....You are not living in a day and age where You are facing powers You can't endure. Famine is not caused by God. People are NOT enduring it.

savagewind · Oct 25, 2012

crossfire said:
Gen 6:2 [they] took (H3947 - laqach) [them wives]

1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away
a) (Qal)
1) to take, take in the hand
2) to take and carry along
3) to take from, take out of, take, carry away, take away
4) to take to or for a person, procure, get, take possession of, select, choose, take in marriage, receive, accept
5) to take up or upon, put upon
6) to fetch
7) to take, lead, conduct
8) to take, capture, seize
9) to take, carry off
10) to take (vengeance)
b) (Niphal)
1) to be captured
2) to be taken away, be removed
3) to be taken, brought unto
c) (Pual)
1) to be taken from or out of
2) to be stolen from
3) to be taken captive
4) to be taken away, be removed
d) (Hophal)
1) to be taken unto, be brought unto
2) to be taken out of
3) to be taken away
e) (Hithpael)
1) to take hold of oneself
2) to flash about (of lightning)

rapture?

I cannot in my wildest fantasy equate what we are talking about here with what they are talking about that might happen later. But it does sound like a rapture word, don't it? LOL. :thud:

crossfire · Oct 25, 2012

savagewind said:
I cannot in my wildest fantasy equate what we are talking about here with what they are talking about that might happen later. But it does sound like a rapture word, don't it? LOL. :thud:

Something to think about:

Matt 24:36-37

36 Now concerning that day and hour no one knowsneither the angels in heaven, nor the Son except the Father only. 37 As the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be.

I'm wondering if Paul was concerned with this re 1 Cor 11:10, since they thought it would be coming quickly.

Shermana · Oct 25, 2012

savagewind said:
No....You are not living in a day and age where You are facing powers You can't endure. Famine is not caused by God. People are NOT enduring it.

Amos 8:11 "when I will send a famine through the land--

"When I will send a famine in the land".

Yeah, He totally never causes famines.

Hmmm, so He doesn't send famines? What next, he doesn't send earthquakes or fire from Heaven either? He doesn't bring armies against Jerusalem to punish the Israelites for their disobedience? Does He not send floods either? Or droughts? What DOES He send? Is He powerless to stop the famine? Is it just nature at play? Does He just decide to send clouds of rain arbitrarily?

And what do you mean people are not enduring the famine exactly? Are you implying there hasn't been a single famine since 70 A.D.? The Irish will be among the first to tell you "That's malarkey!"

Tranquil Servant · Oct 26, 2012

savagewind said:
I am a woman. I know what it is like to be raped like they say the woman were. But then of course the fans of the physical manifestation of God's sons imagine the women were lining up to be united with them. I don't believe it. The women were fooled just like Eve was. They did not realize they were being entered by unclean spirits. That is why it says they were 'good looking'. Oh, you think that means pretty? OMG

I respectfully ask that you please don't let your own personal feelings be affected by this debate and I will try to do the same. I know this can be difficult at times (I think we spoke about this on another thread). After all, this topic is one that has been debated by scholars for years. It was never my intent to offend anyone and I apologize if I did. I am a follower of Christ as you are and we should use opportunities like this to educate and encourage one another. If we let are own personal feelings get involved, we run the risk of straying away from the main objective which is to have a deeper understanding and relationship with God.

Tranquil Servant · Oct 26, 2012

savagewind said:
No....You are not living in a day and age where You are facing powers You can't endure. Famine is not caused by God. People are NOT enduring it.

I was referring more to supernatural powers...
Ephesians 6:12

This means that Gods people must learn to endure and be faithful! 11 I now saw another beast. This one came out of the ground. It had two horns like a lamb, but spoke like a dragon. 12 It worked for the beast whose fatal wound had been healed. And it used all its authority to force the earth and its people to worship that beast. 13 It worked mighty miracles, and while people watched, it even made fire come down from the sky.14 This second beast fooled people on earth by working miracles for the first one. Then it talked them into making an idol in the form of the beast that did not die after being wounded by a sword. 15 It was allowed to put breath into the idol, so that it could speak.---Revelation 13

savagewind · Oct 26, 2012

Tranquil Servant said:
I respectfully ask that you please don't let your own personal feelings be affected by this debate and I will try to do the same. I know this can be difficult at times (I think we spoke about this on another thread). After all, this topic is one that has been debated by scholars for years. It was never my intent to offend anyone and I apologize if I did. I am a follower of Christ as you are and we should use opportunities like this to educate and encourage one another. If we let are own personal feelings get involved, we run the risk of straying away from the main objective which is to have a deeper understanding and relationship with God.

I'm sorry. I can see why You think I am getting personal, but I do not see that I am. I am taking into account the command "do to others like I want done to me". It would not be my pleasure for future generation to believe I was co-inhabiting with monsters. It would be bad enough that people believe that, but then they say it was my wish to do it? That is what at least one group teaches their students. They teach that spirits took on their own bodies, married the women, and the women were proud to be the wives of those.

The thread is about WHERE? Where did they get the bodies they used to impregnate the women? And why, since they were not really human, did the copulation work for producing offspring?

I wonder if all the contributors of the thread realize that I agree there was a union between humans and spirits. It wasn't physical. It was mental. OK?

Shermana · Oct 26, 2012

Where did the Angels get stomachs to eat food when Abraham invited them in?

If horses can mate with donkeys, why can't angels in human form mate with human women?

savagewind · Oct 26, 2012

Shermana said:
Where did the Angels get stomachs to eat food when Abraham invited them in?

If horses can mate with donkeys, why can't angels in human form mate with human women?

God?

Because it's gross?

Tranquil Servant · Oct 27, 2012

I believe that when we discuss or debate a topic such as this one which has been debated and contemplated for centuries, it is important we use scriptures and reliable references as verification for our positions. It is especially important to use scriptural reference as much as possible since it is the main source of our beliefs.
We should approach this topic concerning the Nephilim one step at a time. This is what the Contemporary English Version of the Bible says....
6 1-2 More and more people were born, until finally they spread all over the earth. Some of their daughters were so beautiful that supernatural beings[a] came down and married the ones they wanted. 3 Then the Lord said, “I won’t let my life-giving breath remain in anyone forever.[b] No one will live for more than one hundred twenty years.”[c] 4 The children of the supernatural beings who had married these women became famous heroes and warriors. They were called Nephilim and lived on the earth at that time and even later.---Genesis 6

This is what the Kings James Version of the Bible says...
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.---Genesis 6

My first question would be..Why did the people who revised the Bible from the KJV to the CEV translate the words "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men" to "their daughters were so beautiful that supernatural beings[a] came down and married the ones they wanted"?
My second question would be...If the unions between the sons of God and the daughters of men were in fact mental and not physical then why do both versions of the Bible mention the result of these unions, being giants?

savagewind · Oct 27, 2012

Giants mean big, correct? There exists big people. Are they born from fallen angels or people? If the people who we know are giant are not born from a union between angel and human, why must the Nephilim be from such a union?

Why would people revise the Bible any way they wish? Why wouldn't they?

Does the Bible not warn over and over and over again not to be deceived? The way I read it it does. I have read the whole Bible at least three times and a multitude of times in pieces. Now I read it with translation. I think it is the Baptists who did it... for FREE! Thanks Baptists! IOU.

We posted the translation on this thread. Thanks crossfire!

Read it how you will. You are free, are you not? I am free......so far so good....

crossfire · Oct 27, 2012

Tranquil Servant said:
I believe that when we discuss or debate a topic such as this one which has been debated and contemplated for centuries, it is important we use scriptures and reliable references as verification for our positions. It is especially important to use scriptural reference as much as possible since it is the main source of our beliefs.
We should approach this topic concerning the Nephilim one step at a time. This is what the Contemporary English Version of the Bible says....
6 1-2 More and more people were born, until finally they spread all over the earth. Some of their daughters were so beautiful that supernatural beings[a] came down and married the ones they wanted. 3 Then the Lord said, I wont let my life-giving breath remain in anyone forever.[b] No one will live for more than one hundred twenty years.[c] 4 The children of the supernatural beings who had married these women became famous heroes and warriors. They were called Nephilim and lived on the earth at that time and even later.---Genesis 6

This is what the Kings James Version of the Bible says...
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.---Genesis 6

My first question would be..Why did the people who revised the Bible from the KJV to the CEV translate the words "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men" to "their daughters were so beautiful that supernatural beings[a] came down and married the ones they wanted"?
My second question would be...If the unions between the sons of God and the daughters of men were in fact mental and not physical then why do both versions of the Bible mention the result of these unions, being giants?

"Sons of God" (ben elohim) refers to spiritual beings. "Daughters of men" (bath adam) refers to human females. Two different species of beings, one of which (humans) dies. (See verse 3)

The words translated as Giants and mighty men are Nephilim and gibbowrim, respectively.

crossfire · Oct 27, 2012

In many other traditions, there are stories of gods having children with humans. Heracles, aka Hercules, is one such example. He was a violent individual, slaying his musical tutor as a young man, and later slaying his two children and possibly even his wife in a fit of madness.

In Genesis 6:13, "they" are also associated with violence.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

paniym

1) face
a) face, faces
b) presence, person
c) face (of seraphim or cherubim)
d) face (of animals)
e) face, surface (of ground)
f) as adv of loc/temp
1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from beforetime, before
g) with prep
1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of, from before, from before the face of

Abrahamics only: The Nephilim

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