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(Abrahamics) Can God do anything?

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
I’ve see a lot of this line of thinking on RF (from fellow Abrahamics); What the Bible states is physically impossible, so it must have not happened.
Do you believe that God could not achieve the impossible? How much of the Bible can you say “it’s impossible didn’t happen” while still believing in the Bible? If you say some certain things of the Bible is impossible, well isn’t it impossible for Jesus Christ to come back from the dead after three days? You need to believe in the impossible in order to be a Christian, don’t you?
I just don’t get it. I’m a literalist, very much in the minority. I don’t understand why so many Abrahamics say that what the Bible says didn’t really happen, yet they say they are believers in it.
So can God do anything? My impression is that a lot of people don’t think He can do the impossible.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
I’ve see a lot of this line of thinking on RF (from fellow Abrahamics); What the Bible states is physically impossible, so it must have not happened.
Do you believe that God could not achieve the impossible? How much of the Bible can you say “it’s impossible didn’t happen” while still believing in the Bible? If you say some certain things of the Bible is impossible, well isn’t it impossible for Jesus Christ to come back from the dead after three days? You need to believe in the impossible in order to be a Christian, don’t you?
I just don’t get it. I’m a literalist, very much in the minority. I don’t understand why so many Abrahamics say that what the Bible says didn’t really happen, yet they say they are believers in it.
So can God do anything? My impression is that a lot of people don’t think He can do the impossible.
But isn't it the same for you as a Bahai? Does God have any limitations in your opinion? Besides stuff like making a round square and so on, are there anything that you don't think God is capable of and if so, why do you believe that to be the case and how do you demonstrate that? And if you can't then why would you believe it?

Could also turn it upside down. If you believe God is capable of everything, how would you demonstrate that, and if you can't, then why would you believe it? Also why is what you believe in, more likely or different than what a Christian believe in, who might have doubt about some of the stories in the bible, given that they are aware that they were written by humans after all?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But isn't it the same for you as a Bahai? Does God have any limitations in your opinion? Besides stuff like making a round square and so on, are there anything that you don't think God is capable of and if so, why do you believe that to be the case and how do you demonstrate that? And if you can't then why would you believe it?

Could also turn it upside down. If you believe God is capable of everything, how would you demonstrate that, and if you can't, then why would you believe it? Also why is what you believe in, more likely or different than what a Christian believe in, who might have doubt about some of the stories in the bible, given that they are aware that they were written by humans after all?

That is a fair statement Nimos and yes it is only Logical that a God that created all, can change all.

At the same time being all powerful, when we weigh that with what we know of God, which is Love and virtues, that power is balanced in that Love and virtues.

The highest submission we can have, is the realisation that God does as God Will's.

The way God has Chosen to interact with Humanuty is via the Mesengers and it is the Messengers that are born of the power that sustains all creation, the Holy Spirit. They have the power that this OP speaks of, yet we know they chose only to show it to a few selected people at certain times, they do not drastically alter our life of relative truth. If they did, the balance of the world would be lost and another reality would result.

As to the Bible, I see the stories are based on events, but are embellished in a language that is far reaching for our spiritual progress, Baha’u’llah explained it this way.

"Thus it is recorded: “Every knowledge hath seventy meanings, of which one only is known amongst the people. And when the Qa’im shall arise, He shall reveal unto men all that which remaineth.” He also saith: “We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain.” – Baha’u’llah, The Book of Certitude, p. 255.

Regards Tony
 

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
But isn't it the same for you as a Bahai?
From what I’ve seen on RF, Baha’is say things are symbolic, rather than a metaphor, such as the resurrection. The wonderful thing about the Baha’i faith is that each member is implored to investigate what is the truth for themselves, so that leaves room for a diversity of opinion in the community. I’ve only recently began identifying as Baha’i, as I agree with many of its core tenets, but I still got a lot to explore. I don’t intend to misrepresent the Baha’i faith.
Does God have any limitations in your opinion?
I’m not sure. The problem of evil makes me consider if God has the capacity to destroy evil, or if He requires human beings in doing their part. That’s the picture that the Zoroastrian faith paints, and Baha’is believe that Zoroastrianism is an inspired faith. Other than that though, I believe God created the whole universe. So why would He have limitations?
Could also turn it upside down. If you believe God is capable of everything, how would you demonstrate that, and if you can't, then why would you believe it?
I don’t think I can demonstrate it. It’s belief in sacred texts, for me, my faith suffices. I guess the OP is wondering why if you have faith, it is required for something to be scientifically proven before you believe it. The flood for example, the Bible says it happens, so imo faith should suffice in believing it. I don’t think it should be required to demonstrate that a flood actually happened, if you have faith in the text.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I’m not sure. The problem of evil makes me consider if God has the capacity to destroy evil, or if He requires human beings in doing their part. That’s the picture that the Zoroastrian faith paints, and Baha’is believe that Zoroastrianism is an inspired faith. Other than that though, I believe God created the whole universe. So why would He have limitations?

A great meditation on this topic is actually a foundation teaching of faith, which is this verse.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Thus Good and Evil are a capacity within us all, it is a relative state of being.

There is no flaw in creation. So now we can consider what the Story of Adam and Eve is all about. It is a Metephor of our struggle in the human condition to find the good within us, or to portray the animal over the good.

Sorry have to go, not a great explanation, best place to read all about this is Some Answered Questions by Abdu’l-Baha.

Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

Work day calls, Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The flood for example, the Bible says it happens, so imo faith should suffice in believing it. I don’t think it should be required to demonstrate that a flood actually happened, if you have faith in the text.

A good meditation on this is a talk given by Abdu’l-Baha (you will find it in Some Answered Questions} that we must balance faith with reason and as science and Faith are both sources of truth, there can not be a contradiction.

Love to offer more but even less time to get to work now ;):D

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You need to believe in the impossible in order to be a Christian, don’t you?
No, I don't think so.

In previous centuries, almost all Christians believed in miracles as described in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). These included creation, the story of Adam and Eve, a talking serpent, the great flood of Noah, the drying up of the Red/Reed sea, a prophet riding on a talking ***, the sun stopping in the sky, etc. From the Christian Scriptures (New Testament), they believed in the virgin birth, the Christmas star, angels appearing to the shepherds, Jesus healing the sick, etc. Many, perhaps most, liberal Christians now believe that these stories are not to be interpreted literally as real events. Their faith has not been damaged by losing faith in the reality of these events. A growing number of liberals are now taking the final step by interpreting the stories of Jesus' resurrection and his appearances to his followers and to Paul as other than real events.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/resur_lt.htm
I just don’t get it. I’m a literalist, very much in the minority. I don’t understand why so many Abrahamics say that what the Bible says didn’t really happen, yet they say they are believers in it.
Believers can believe in the Bible but not interpret all of it literally, understanding that much of it is allegorical.
So can God do anything? My impression is that a lot of people don’t think He can do the impossible.
I don't think that humans can ever know what God can or cannot do becaue God is unknowable, but even if God could do anything that does not mean that God would do everything that God can do, because God only does what God chooses to do.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209
 

Saint Frankenstein

Gone
Premium Member
I’ve see a lot of this line of thinking on RF (from fellow Abrahamics); What the Bible states is physically impossible, so it must have not happened.
Do you believe that God could not achieve the impossible? How much of the Bible can you say “it’s impossible didn’t happen” while still believing in the Bible? If you say some certain things of the Bible is impossible, well isn’t it impossible for Jesus Christ to come back from the dead after three days? You need to believe in the impossible in order to be a Christian, don’t you?
I just don’t get it. I’m a literalist, very much in the minority. I don’t understand why so many Abrahamics say that what the Bible says didn’t really happen, yet they say they are believers in it.
So can God do anything? My impression is that a lot of people don’t think He can do the impossible.
Of course He can do anything. He's the Almighty, the All-Powerful.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
That is a fair statement Nimos and yes it is only Logical that a God that created all, can change all.

At the same time being all powerful, when we weigh that with what we know of God, which is Love and virtues, that power is balanced in that Love and virtues.
From what I’ve seen on RF, Baha’is say things are symbolic, rather than a metaphor, such as the resurrection. The wonderful thing about the Baha’i faith is that each member is implored to investigate what is the truth for themselves, so that leaves room for a diversity of opinion in the community. I’ve only recently began identifying as Baha’i, as I agree with many of its core tenets, but I still got a lot to explore. I don’t intend to misrepresent the Baha’i faith.
Don't get me wrong, what you believe or don't believe is of little relevance to my point.

Basically you question Christians reason for believing in the bible and therefore God, given that some of them question certain stories. I do however not think that Jesus rising from the dead is one of them, as that would pretty much ruin Christianity if that weren't true. Yet you question this as being an impossibility and if they don't believe in such things, then why would they believe at all.

Questioning this is a fair point, I think most atheists would/do the same. The problem is, that these beliefs comes down to whether or not something can be proven or not, for whether one belief is more valid than another. And therefore it applies to your own beliefs as well.

Basically it is no different than you and me having a discussion about an event none of us witnessed. Lets say, I told you "The car just exploded for no reason" and you question that, because to you that sound unlikely, however your own explanation is "A demon caused the car to explode". So casting doubt on my belief, is doing nothing for your own, as long as you have no better way of demonstrating it.

So your reason for believing what you do, is no better than my reason for believing what I do, if that makes sense.

I’m not sure. The problem of evil makes me consider if God has the capacity to destroy evil, or if He requires human beings in doing their part. That’s the picture that the Zoroastrian faith paints, and Baha’is believe that Zoroastrianism is an inspired faith. Other than that though, I believe God created the whole universe. So why would He have limitations?
You kind of contradict yourself here, sort of doing exactly what you "accuse" the Christians of doing.

"The problem of evil makes me consider if God has the capacity to destroy evil" vs "I believe God created the whole universe. So why would He have limitations?"

If God doesn't have the capacity to destroy evil, clearly he have limitation, so raising the question of why he would have limitations is contradictory, to that statement. There ought to be no reason to think that God couldn't get rid of evil if he wanted to. Obviously he haven't done it, so your concerns regarding it is valid and relevant.

I guess the OP is wondering why if you have faith, it is required for something to be scientifically proven before you believe it. The flood for example, the Bible says it happens, so imo faith should suffice in believing it. I don’t think it should be required to demonstrate that a flood actually happened, if you have faith in the text.
Because questioning things make sure that you don't believe in wrong things or get manipulated into believing something that ain't true. Blindly believing something just because it is written down and is old, is not a good reason for believing anything. That is why one should demand prove and evidence of why something is true, the only time faith is ever needed is when you don't know something, otherwise faith is irrelevant.

When you think of fundamentalist terrorists, do you think they correctly question their scriptures? or do you think they just blindly believe and taking these texts literal could explain how they are capable of doing what they are doing without any concerns?

Believing in scriptures and a God is fine, believing in it without questioning them is dangerous and can be very damaging to oneself. There are lots of examples of this, whether that is from religions themselves, sects or cults, where people have been mislead because of them just believing something and not being able to defend against it.

Besides that, Jesus rising from the dead or Baha'u'llah having talked to God? Not exactly easy to prove any of it.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I’ve see a lot of this line of thinking on RF (from fellow Abrahamics); What the Bible states is physically impossible, so it must have not happened.
Do you believe that God could not achieve the impossible? How much of the Bible can you say “it’s impossible didn’t happen” while still believing in the Bible? If you say some certain things of the Bible is impossible, well isn’t it impossible for Jesus Christ to come back from the dead after three days? You need to believe in the impossible in order to be a Christian, don’t you?
I just don’t get it. I’m a literalist, very much in the minority. I don’t understand why so many Abrahamics say that what the Bible says didn’t really happen, yet they say they are believers in it.
So can God do anything? My impression is that a lot of people don’t think He can do the impossible.
God does not do anything that is contrary to his nature. It is senseless to ask if he CAN when we already know that He DOESN'T.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
I’ve see a lot of this line of thinking on RF (from fellow Abrahamics); What the Bible states is physically impossible, so it must have not happened.
Do you believe that God could not achieve the impossible? How much of the Bible can you say “it’s impossible didn’t happen” while still believing in the Bible? If you say some certain things of the Bible is impossible, well isn’t it impossible for Jesus Christ to come back from the dead after three days? You need to believe in the impossible in order to be a Christian, don’t you?
I just don’t get it. I’m a literalist, very much in the minority. I don’t understand why so many Abrahamics say that what the Bible says didn’t really happen, yet they say they are believers in it.
So can God do anything? My impression is that a lot of people don’t think He can do the impossible.
I think the issue for many is about things that are claimed to have happened but clearly didn't, rather than limiting god's potential omnipotence.
If god is really god, then he can obviously do anything. The concept of "impossible" is incoherent in that context. (The omnipotence paradox notwithstanding)
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
God does not do anything that is contrary to his nature. It is senseless to ask if he CAN when we already know that He DOESN'T.
Surely "god's nature" is whatever he determines it to be.
The very concept of god having an inherent nature that determines his abilities implies a power beyond him.
 

TreeOfLife

Member
God will not do all things. God put his word above his actions. In gen 1.28 he gave man dominion over all things on the earth. Again at the atonement Jesus restored that dominion. God will not suspend the law of gravity to save you from stupid acts. You will die if you jump from a hi enough bubuying!

Again. God does not control when you die. He puts a range but that is all. Death is indeterminate but is in our power to put off with diet exercise etc.. and ther are things called accidents and some will kill you.

God is sovereign. Think thru that. He will not override your dominion to stop bad or good. He is not judging America due to our wickedness. It is our wickedness that has brought destruction on us and the world.

God does not make you sick to test you or teach you. God's whole intent is to multiply his creation. That means you too. All living things were the bring forth in its kind.
John 3.16. Means that he lives us so much that he wants the best for all his children and creation. It is the sin that was brought into the world that shortens all his living creation.
 
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