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Abrahamic Religious Debate - God, Prophecy & Everything Else

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by t3gah, Jan 10, 2005.

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  1. Yes

    2 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. No

    4 vote(s)
    66.7%
  1. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    Abrahamic Religious Debate - God, Prophecy & Everything Else

    Isaiah 55:8,9 state this:
    55:8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” says Yahweh.

    55:9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

    1 John 4:8 states this:

    4:8 He who doesn’t love doesn’t know God, for God is love.

    God knows everything and created everything, right? How come He didn't know that an angel would meddle with Eve & Adam in the garden of Eden? How come God didn't know that Eve & Adam would disobey his commandment and eat the forbidden fruit? How come God stations the Cherub with the turning sword to block the entrance to the tree of life/entrance to the garden but fails to put this angel with sword guarding the tree that Eve & Adam ate from, before they did so? How come God is able to confuse people's languages for the story of the tower of Babel and cause mental darkness for three days in the entire Egyptian countryside before the Exodus but he doesn't put Eve & Adam asleep and erase their minds? How come the scripture says God is love yet he's let the whole world suffer at each other's hands? How come God raised up nations of false religion worshipers He allowed to become such and then kill them with angels or the Hebrews but "wrote" the Ten Words (10 Commandments) with "Thou shalt not kill" as a primary 'no-no'? How come God killed hordes of peoples that did horrible things in the name of false religion but spared the fallen angels by throwing them down to earth from heaven? How come the world has to put up with the one called satan and devil misleading the entire inhabited earth when God is God? I say God's ways are definitely not our way because all those years isolated by Himself with no one else, how ever long that might have been, has unhinged Him because he's contradicting Himself. I think God's on holiday. I also think the "God" part has some perks here. Why build a perfect universe that takes care of itself? Why not make it semi-perfect? Why not make some beings out of clay and whatever to be my servants? Sounds crazy, eh? Why didn't God get rid of the angel that started this whole mess, erase Eve & Adam's mind and start over afresh? Why let any challenge be made at all? What's God's motive for this entire earth's fiasco? God has all the prophecies written down in the scriptures all the way till the end of the end and the beginning of the beginning yet he doesn't make the effort to keep the plan from getting messed up? I think it's because God knew everything that was going to occur but let it happen anyway for entertainments sake. Godly entertainment of course. Something on a much higher scale than mankind can think of or enjoy. Something that God can manipulate with all kinds of situations. It must be the title of God I guess. Or maybe it's something else...:areyoucra
     
  2. cvipertooth

    cvipertooth Member

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    Before I get into your post I would like to start of by saying that I realize that you are struggling with you religious views, and I'm sure he will guide you on whatever spiritual journey you will undergo. But regardless of your journey, never stop questioning the Bible, learn all there is to learn and try to find fault in it.......this will only strenghten your faith.

    "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether or not they are of God: because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
    1 John 4:1

    That would be correct

    I decided to address all of these questions with the same answer

    Because God gave us a choice. Above all, he desired fellowship, and he wanted those who he was in fellowship to choose him freely, not follow him mindlessly. God loves us, and does not want us to be pawns in some sick little chess game. God knew that Adam and Eve would choose the forbidden fruit, Yet he allowed them to eat that fruit as to not revoke his promise of free will. It is a grand showing of his love for us.

    Again, free choice. If he erased their mind and they started all over again, they would choose the forbidden fruit and then he would have to start all over again, creating a huge cycle. Adam and Eve chose the knowledge of good and evil because they were human, they desired it.

    It is not God that puts a gun in a mans hand and commands him to shoot someone. That is that man's own free will, unless he is insane which is another case altogether. It is not God who starts wars unless it was to help the lineage of Christ to succeed. There is not life without death. There is no freedom without persecution. There is no gift without sacrifice.

    I'm not sure which case you are talking about, if you could, be more specific and I will try my best to help you. Unfortunately, I do not have all the answers. No one does. But again, God did not raise up these false religions. Who did? I don't know. That answer is higher than I. But the commandment is not "Thou shalt not kill". It is "Thou shalt no murder". There is a huge difference. There is a difference between killing someone out of self defense and murdering your family in cold blood. There is a difference between genocide and defending your country.

    Because there must be an opposite to everything. Good and evil, Light and dark, Yin and Yang, whatever. This also applies to our freedom of choice, we can choose the rightous, or the unrightous.

    I'm not sure I understand this verbage. Satan has semi-dominion over the earth but ultimately it is the individual that chooses God. God does not seek you out, you must go to God. He is not isolated to himself, he is not of this world. He does not look upon sin or imperfection. I'm not sure what you mean by he has unhunged himself and he is contradicting himself.

    Because he desired fellowship. The universe taking care of itself only further supports the idea that life has a free will. It can choose him. The Bible says that if we do not worship him the stones will cry out in praise. Nothing says we are to be Gods servants and it does not sound crazy in the slightest.

    Again, free will. He could start over and the outcome would still be the same. He wanted Adam and Eve to know the difference between right and wrong so they could choose him, but ultimately he allowed them to make that choice as well.

    Challenges are part of growth. Again, nothing is gained without sacrifice. As simple as it may sound, nothing is spoon-fed to a person. The must seek after it and yearn for it. God's motive is to have a fellowship. God allowed us to either choose him, or not, knowing that some would reject him. But he still loves those he reject him, as he loves every person on this planet.

    I'm not sure where you hate for God came from, but I am more than happy to hear about it. God loves you, and ultimately wants the best for you, including eternal life. We are not here for God's entertainment. Where are here to share his time, to share life, and to share in his glory.
     
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  3. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    T3, the correct response is contianed in those Scriptures you quoted. Nobody knows the mind of God. Why try?
     
  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    How do you know this?
     
  5. cvipertooth

    cvipertooth Member

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    This is under the assumption that there is a God and obviously, if there is, we have a free will. I don't see many people being struck down by divine lightining bolts everytime they sin.
     
  6. The People

    The People Member

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    Ur speak of sharing and the like has intrigued The People. The People feel you would do well to look into Kommunism, even if u dont accept the athiest portion related to it. Because in many ways a Kommunist government wants the same things your God wants for you; THE BEST
     
  7. cvipertooth

    cvipertooth Member

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    Actually, I am a huge fan of Kommunism, and I believe that it is an excellent government type, unless dilevered into the hands of the greedy. As you noticed, The Kommunistic ideas for the people and my God's idea for the people are hand in hand.
     
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  8. The People

    The People Member

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    Pinko or full fledged?
    Either way add me to ur Religious Forums buddy list, if ever in a heated debate we could help each other out. Big fan of God and all his work.
     
  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    No, it is not obvious at all. Again, how do you know this?
     
  10. cvipertooth

    cvipertooth Member

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    Under the assumption that God is real, of course we have a free will. Otherwise he wouldn't allow you to not believe in him. Our free will is made evident in every choice we make in our everyday lives. You can choose God, or Reject him. Without free will, the thought of rejecting God would never cross anyone's mind, because they would be programmed to follow him.
     
  11. The People

    The People Member

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    Unless the government is using mind control drugs to make u believe in him and its only becuase some of us are geneticly tolerant...or are robots from the future that we can resist our belief in "him".
     
  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Rubbish. You believe that he 'hardened Pharaoh's heart', you believe that Pharaoh was unaware that he no free will in the matter, and now you make claims about everyone else. Nice try ...
     
  13. cvipertooth

    cvipertooth Member

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    I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish here. I do not believe that God physically hardenened pharoah's heart. It was the choices that the Pharoah made that distanced him from God, allowing him to harden his own heart

    "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not conveinient,"
     
  14. cvipertooth

    cvipertooth Member

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    The location of that verse is Romans 1:28, forgive me for sending the post without it.
     
  15. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    cvipertooth, for me it's a problem with logic. How can you still have a choice in anything when god already knows what you will choose? Also, do you believe that god has a plan and purpose for your life? How can god plan out your life, and still allow you to have free will?
     
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Respectfully, you might wish to reread the text.
     
  17. cvipertooth

    cvipertooth Member

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    You can't think of time literally. God transcends all time, he is past, present, and future. He knows everything that has, is, and will be. He does not plan, then allow. He plans in the future and allows in the present. He creates what your life will be in the future based on the actions you made in your life. Again, you have to look at God as transcending all time, and not bound by the laws that we are.

    C'mon, Deut, your sounding like some poeple at my church, reading the Bible literally. What God does is also what God allows. God turned his back on his son, meaning he allowed his son to take on the sin of the world. God hardened Phaeroh's heart, meaning he gave him over to a reprobate mind.
     
  18. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I love it when people do this with a straight face - words are literally putty in your hands. :biglaugh: Just don't confuse rationalization with reason. :tsk:
     
  19. cvipertooth

    cvipertooth Member

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    Again, I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish. If there is a problem with my thinking, by all means, let me know. I would be more than happy to hear your view on the matter.
     
  20. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    No need, cvipertooth. Word meaning is far too malleable in your hands. I'll leave you to your creative [size=-1] eisegesis.[/size]
     
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