Abraham sacrifice his son (ishmael or isaac)

[Pegg]

So there was abuse against Ishmael (pbuh) and Hajar from Sarah and Abraham (pbuh) ?

The character of Hagar and Ishmael showed they themselves were abusive to to Sarah and Isaac. Hagar looked down on Sarah because she could not have children and Ishmael was a bully toward Isaac when he was born.

Anyway, they were sent away at Gods order.

Genesis 21:12 Then God said to Abraham: “Do not be displeased by what Sarah is saying to you about the boy and about your slave girl. Listen to her,* for what will be called your offspring* will be through Isaac.+13 As for the son of the slave girl,+ I will also make a nation out of him,+ because he is your offspring.”*
14 So Abraham got up early in the morning and took bread and a skin bottle of water and gave it to Ha′gar. He set these on her shoulder and then sent her away along with the boy.+ So she departed and wandered about in the wilderness of Be′er-she′ba.+

 

[Sleeppy]

The character of Hagar and Ishmael showed they themselves were abusive to to Sarah and Isaac. Hagar looked down on Sarah because she could not have children and Ishmael was a bully toward Isaac when he was born.

Anyway, they were sent away at Gods order.

Genesis 21:12 Then God said to Abraham: “Do not be displeased by what Sarah is saying to you about the boy and about your slave girl. Listen to her,* for what will be called your offspring* will be through Isaac.+13 As for the son of the slave girl,+ I will also make a nation out of him,+ because he is your offspring.”*
14 So Abraham got up early in the morning and took bread and a skin bottle of water and gave it to Ha′gar. He set these on her shoulder and then sent her away along with the boy.+ So she departed and wandered about in the wilderness of Be′er-she′ba.+

Even if Hagar was enabled to look down on her superior, did that make it right for Sarah to become jealous, and seek retribution? Or did Ishmael, a young older sibling, deserve to be sent off into the desert with the possibility of starvation, because of something all children do? --- These are questions I would ask God.

 

[Godobeyer]

The character of Hagar and Ishmael showed they themselves were abusive to to Sarah and Isaac. Hagar looked down on Sarah because she could not have children and Ishmael was a bully toward Isaac when he was born.

Anyway, they were sent away at Gods order.

Genesis 21:12 Then God said to Abraham: “Do not be displeased by what Sarah is saying to you about the boy and about your slave girl. Listen to her,* for what will be called your offspring* will be through Isaac.+13 As for the son of the slave girl,+ I will also make a nation out of him,+ because he is your offspring.”*
14 So Abraham got up early in the morning and took bread and a skin bottle of water and gave it to Ha′gar. He set these on her shoulder and then sent her away along with the boy.+ So she departed and wandered about in the wilderness of Be′er-she′ba.+

accuatly it's could be there is other explaination , So God order Abraham (pbuh) to save Ishmeal (pbuh) and Hagar from Sarah , Sarah may would make murder because of her jealous .

 

[Pegg]

Even if Hagar was enabled to look down on her superior, did that make it right for Sarah to become jealous, and seek retribution? Or did Ishmael, a young older sibling, deserve to be sent off into the desert with the possibility of starvation, because of something all children do? --- These are questions I would ask God.

Regardless of what we think of the situation, God supported Sarah and Isaac and sent hagar and her son away. He did not neglect them though... He continued to provide sustenance for them and they did survive. So no questions need to be asked...everything was in God's hands and he saw to it that it all worked out for everyone involved.

 

[Pegg]

accuatly it's could be there is other explaination , So God order Abraham (pbuh) to save Ishmeal (pbuh) and Hagar from Sarah , Sarah may would make murder because of her jealous .

No I don't think so. Sarah was a God fearing woman...obedient and faithful to God. That's why she was chosen to be the wife of Abraham and that's why God selected her to be the mother of the nation of Israel.

We should never doubt God's decisions in any matter.... He does not need our approval for anything he chose to do. We merely are asked to have faith that his decisions are always for our long term benefit.

 

[Sleeppy]

Regardless of what we think of the situation, God supported Sarah and Isaac and sent hagar and her son away. He did not neglect them though... He continued to provide sustenance for them and they did survive. So no questions need to be asked...everything was in God's hands and he saw to it that it all worked out for everyone involved.

The questions (and their answers) remain relevant-- but I understand your position.

 

[Pegg]

The questions (and their answers) remain relevant-- but I understand your position.

There are answered to these questions. And they revolve around God's purpose to send a savior into the world to save all mankind. God was not going to allow anything to interfere with his purpose and if that meant sending a woman and her child away from the comfort of her family to live in another part of the land , then so be it.

The promise was made to Sarah long before hangar was on the scene... so God was being faithful to Sarah to fulfill in her what he had promised...."by means of Isaac" the promised savior would come. And Jesus was born thru Isaacs descendants as foretold. Ishmael decsendants proved to be enemies of Isaac even up to today they still want to fight.

So Jehovah made the right decision back then... He was protecting his chosen people from those who would try to harm them, and in doing so, he ensured the safe arrival of the Messiah into the world.

 

[Sleeppy]

There are answered to these questions. And they revolve around God's purpose to send a savior into the world to save all mankind. God was not going to allow anything to interfere with his purpose and if that meant sending a woman and her child away from the comfort of her family to live in another part of the land , then so be it.

The promise was made to Sarah long before hangar was on the scene... so God was being faithful to Sarah to fulfill in her what he had promised...."by means of Isaac" the promised savior would come. And Jesus was born thru Isaacs descendants as foretold. Ishmael decsendants proved to be enemies of Isaac even up to today they still want to fight.

So Jehovah made the right decision back then... He was protecting his chosen people from those who would try to harm them, and in doing so, he ensured the safe arrival of the Messiah into the world.

But if you believe this, you should also believe there was no reason for God to make Ishmael into a great nation. There was no reason to prolong Sarah's conception, to the point that Sarah gave Hagar over to Abraham for the purpose of a child. There was no reason to allow either of them to survive in the desert, after they were sent away. -- If God was protecting Isaac, He would've done so (perhaps by raising them both up, under Abraham). But if Ishmael, the great nation, was to be against Isaac, against Israel- why did God allow these things. Does God trip over Himself?

 

[Godobeyer]

But if you believe this, you should also believe there was no reason for God to make Ishmael into a great nation. There was no reason to prolong Sarah's conception, to the point that Sarah gave Hagar over to Abraham for the purpose of a child. There was no reason to allow either of them to survive in the desert, after they were sent away. -- If God was protecting Isaac, He would've done so (perhaps by raising them both up, under Abraham). But if Ishmael, the great nation, was to be against Isaac, against Israel- why did God allow these things. Does God trip over Himself?

good point .

Accuatly jealous is human feeling in women or men .in case of Sarah and Ishmael (pbuh) and Hagar it's convert to action . kick off .

God allow these happaned to show us ,how the abused one could be a winner , if he/she patient and trust in God . and the gain is "Great Nation" : the Muslims .

 

[Pegg]

But if you believe this, you should also believe there was no reason for God to make Ishmael into a great nation. There was no reason to prolong Sarah's conception, to the point that Sarah gave Hagar over to Abraham for the purpose of a child. There was no reason to allow either of them to survive in the desert, after they were sent away. -- If God was protecting Isaac, He would've done so (perhaps by raising them both up, under Abraham). But if Ishmael, the great nation, was to be against Isaac, against Israel- why did God allow these things. Does God trip over Himself?

well its interesting what the Apostle Paul wrote about his particular incident of God sending him away.

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, Do you not hear the Law? 22 For example, it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the servant girl+ and one by the free woman;+ 23 but the one by the servant girl was actually born through natural descent*+ and the other by the free woman through a promise.+ 24 These things may be taken as a symbolic drama; for . 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

27 For it is written: “Be glad, you barren woman who does not give birth; break into joyful shouting, you woman who does not have birth pains; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than those of her who has the husband.”+28 Now you, brothers, are children of the promise the same as Isaac was.+ 29 But just as then the one born through natural descent* began persecuting the one born through spirit,+ so also now.+ 30 Nevertheless, what does the scripture say? “Drive out the servant girl and her son, for the son of the servant girl will by no means be an heir with the son of the free woman.”+ 31 So, brothers, we are children, not of a servant girl, but of the free woman.

Pauls point is that the Mosiac Law did not give the nation of Israel the status of a free woman (ie, Sarah), it highlighted that they were subject to sin and hence slaves (like Hagar) of sin as Jesus also pointed out:

John 8:34 Jesus answered them: “Most truly I say to you, every doer of sin is a slave of sin.+35 Moreover, the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. ​

this is why Paul compared the enslaved Jerusalem of his day (enslaved by Rome) with the servant girl Hagar, Jerusalem’s “children,” or citizens were like Hagar’s son Ishmael.
On the other hand, God’s original wife, the Jerusalem above (the heavenly kingdom), like Sarah was always a free woman, and her children were likewise free.
Christians are told they can become a free child of the Jerusalem above when they are set free by the Son of God. And thats why Jesus said in John 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be truly free.

God teaches us spiritual truths by means of living examples or symbolic dramas as Paul puts it.

 

[dantech]

good point .

Accuatly jealous is human feeling in women or men .in case of Sarah and Ishmael (pbuh) and Hagar it's convert to action . kick off .

God allow these happaned to show us ,how the abused one could be a winner , if he/she patient and trust in God . and the gain is "Great Nation" : the Muslims .

Both Isaac and Ishmael got the promise of "Great Nation". The difference is that in Ishmael's case, it was unconditional. Got promised a future for Ishmael, but the covenant was promised to Isaac, as was the land.

FRENCH:

La promesse "Une Grande Nation" a été faite aux deux : Ishmael et Isaac. La différence est que dans le cas d'Ishmael, c'était inconditionnel, tandis que pour Isaac c'était conditionnel. Dieu a promis a Ishmael un futur, mais a fait une alliance avec Isaac, et lui a promis la terre sainte aussi.

 

[Godobeyer]

Both Isaac and Ishmael got the promise of "Great Nation". The difference is that in Ishmael's case, it was unconditional. Got promised a future for Ishmael, but the covenant was promised to Isaac, as was the land.

FRENCH:

La promesse "Une Grande Nation" a été faite aux deux : Ishmael et Isaac. La différence est que dans le cas d'Ishmael, c'était inconditionnel, tandis que pour Isaac c'était conditionnel. Dieu a promis a Ishmael un futur, mais a fait une alliance avec Isaac, et lui a promis la terre sainte aussi.

I agree about both promise "Great Nation" , Isaac(pbuh) father of Jews , Ishmael (pbuh) is father of Muslims (arabs)

What land promised to Isaac in Torah ?

Jews lost their land many times , so God broke his promise many times ?

thanks for explain it again in French , that's kind action

 

[dantech]

I agree about both promise "Great Nation" , Isaac(pbuh) father of Jews , Ishmael (pbuh) is father of Muslims (arabs)

What land promised to Isaac in Torah ?

"Now there was a famine in the land, besides the former famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went to Gerar to Abimelech king of the Philistines. 2 And the Lord appeared to him and said, “Do not go down to Egypt; dwell in the land of which I shall tell you. 3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with you and will bless you, for to you and to your offspring I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath that I swore to Abraham your father. 4 I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, 5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.” Genesis 26

Jews lost their land many times , so God broke his promise many times ?

That's another debate all together, and there are many possible explanations. Don't have the time right now to go into detail

thanks for explain it again in French , that's kind action

no problem!

 

[bretzter]

Was it not that the Isrealites,since in those days there was no such thing
as a Jew/Moslem,constantly served other gods alongside YHWH.
And for that one reason they were punished for it.
People must remember,it was God who chose them to be his people,and
not them God.
What gets me is this,after seeing what God did to Pharoah and Egypt,the
parting of the Red Sea,the manna,among the other miracles God performed
on their behalf,how is it tha after witnessing things like that,they could still
have the audacity to provoke God to anger,as with erecting the golden calf
for example.
Say what you want to,believe what you want to,but this doesn´t sound like
a God to be taken lightly.
He not only say what he means,but means exactly that what he says.
Therefore,should we fear,or be in awe of the one true and living God?.
It´s only right that we show him the respect and reverance he deserves.
Why,because he´s earned it.
Even Satan and his demons tremble because of him,therefore,being created
lower than them,shouldn´t we do likewise?.
I can´t speak for you personally,or anyone else for that matter,but knowing
what is good for me,I will.

 

[FearGod]

It is wrongly translated as:
“Take your son, your only son Isaac whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.”
The original is "2 וַיֹּ֡אמֶר קַח־נָ֠א אֶת־בִּנְךָ֙ אֶת־יְחִֽידְךָ֤ אֲשֶׁר־אָהַ֙בְתָּ֙ אֶת־יִצְחָ֔ק וְלֶךְ־לְךָ֔ אֶל־אֶ֖רֶץ הַמֹּרִיָּ֑ה וְהַעֲלֵ֤הוּ שָׁם֙ לְעֹלָ֔ה עַ֚ל אַחַ֣ד הֶֽהָרִ֔ים אֲשֶׁ֖ר אֹמַ֥ר אֵלֶֽיךָ"
It should be translated like this : "Take your son, your only son whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.

It doesn't say "your only son" as if he only had one son. It says "your only son whom you love, Isaac, ..."

I see no contradiction.

It doesn't make sense to say "your only son Isaac whom you love", it should be " your son whom you love".
saying "your only son whom you love" means Abraham has several sons or he doesn't love Ishmael and both aren't correct.