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Abraham sacrifice his son (ishmael or isaac)

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions DIR' started by FearGod, May 19, 2012.

  1. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    According to the biblical story, God commands Abraham pbuh to offer his son Isaac pbuh as a sacrifice.

    But what is known to muslims that ishmael pbuh was the one offered for the sacrifice.

    "By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son ..." (Hebrews 11:17, R.S.V.)

    "After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, ‘Abraham!’ And he said, ‘Here am I.’ He said, ‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you’." (Genesis 22:1-2, R.S.V.).

    The bible contradict itself by saying "your only son",whereas the established
    fact which is also mentioned in the bible that Isaac is not the only son of
    Abraham pbuh,as ishmael was born 13 years before Isaac,so in logic,Isaac
    wasn't yet born and his only son at that time was Ishmael and not Isaac.

    [youtube]yRDw-s5P540[/youtube]
    Isaac or Ishmael deedat - YouTube

    [youtube]dj7tR0FRvBI[/youtube]
    Eid ul-Adha & Abraham Sacrifice Explained + Qur'an! - YouTube
     
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  2. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    I too don't know why the Bible says that Isaac was to be sacrificed when it was actually Ishmael peace be upon them.
     
  3. Marco19

    Marco19 Researcher

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    i think the same question goes to Quran too, why it says that Ishmael was to ... ?

    so the hard question is: who carries the reliability?
     
  4. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
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    The Bible does not contradict itself. Isaac could rightly be referred to as Abraham's "only-begotten" son in several ways: "Isaac was Abraham's only son by God's promise, as well as the only son of Sarah. He was the only son in his father's household at the time Abraham was commanded to offer Isaac as a sacrifice. Further, as Paul mentions, God promised Abraham that the seed that would bless all mankind would be through Isaac. (Hebrews 11:18) Thus, God's covenant would be with Isaac, not Ismael. The Quran is in error if it states Ismael was the one offered as a sacrifice.


     
  5. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    You can't play with the words as you wish it to be.

    He is talking to Abraham pbuh as "his only son",if talking for both Abraham and Sarah,then it should be
    their only son,please to reach the truth we should analyze facts without bias.

    Then "your only son" means one thing in logic "you have only one son" it will be understood so by any rational thinking person,but you can have any other meanings
    if you got the ability to know what in god's mind,like saying god meant to say so and so.

    Also it is funny that god himself contradict himself in the bible by saying

    Genesis 21:12
    But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.


    Then after that god will asked Abraham pbuh to sacrifice his son,How funny.
     
    #5 FearGod, May 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2012
  6. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
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    How is that a contradiction? Abraham knew God's promise would be fulfilled through Isaac. Therefore, it took great faith to obey God's command to offer Isaac as a sacrifice. As Hebrews 11:17-19 explains: "By faith Abraham, when he was tested, as good as offered up Isaac...although it had been said to him: "What will be called 'your seed' will be through Isaac." But he reckoned that God was able to raise him up even from the dead; and from there he did receive him also in an illustrative way."
    God stopped Abraham from killing his son in sacrifice; otherwise, Abraham would have carried out what God commanded. Abraham reasoned that since God's promise concerning Isaac could not fail, God would resurrect Isaac back to life.

    It is not for mere men to attach arbitrary definitions to what God's word says. Paul was well aware that Abraham had other children when he spoke of Isaac as Abraham's "only-begotten" son. The Greek word mo.no.ge.nes' is defined as "single of its kind, only" or "the only member of a kin or kind." Regarding the covenant God made with Abraham, only Isaac would be part of that covenant. Abraham's other sons would have no share, including Ishmael.


     
  7. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Sorry, "your only son" means to say that he got only one son as a father,nothing else.

    Also saying that Abraham pbuh was in knowledge that god will ressurect his son back to life even if he killed him,because of god's promise that 'his seed' will be through Isaac,that looks farce

    Hope you could find answers for the following questions

    why god will test a prophet
    How the prophet was sure that his dream was real and not satanic
    why god will test his prophet's obedience by doing awful thing such as killing his own son whereas god asked us not to kill any innocent without a reason.
     
  8. OneTwo

    OneTwo Member

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    The reason why God tested this prophet, was to show people of our generations how loyal this prophet was to God, that he was willing to sacrifice his son for God. God would never ask him to sacrifice his son for no reason, therefore showing that it was a test, to show us how loyal a prophet is, and why he was chosen to be a prophet (as his faith was so strong).

    Another point to mention, is that in Islam, it is not specified which son it was, because it is not important which son he was going to sacrifice, the point is, that he was willing to sacrifice his son. The reason why the Qur'an doesn't specify is because; it doesn't make any difference whatsoever which son it was.
     
  9. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Sound logic on the part that the quran didn't mention the son by name as what was important is the response of his prophet to show us how obedient he was.

    But just surprised how his prophet will be able to cut the head of his son according to god's command.

    For a prophet who knows god very well i guess he will do what god ordered him even though it will be a hard job,
    knowing that some people aren't able to kill a chicken,then how if ordered to kill his own son.
     
  10. OneTwo

    OneTwo Member

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    This story was mentioned in the Qur'an for man to see how strong the prophets faith was, and not only the prophet but the son too. The Qur'an states that when the Prophet Ibrahim held his son about to sacrifice him, that his son said to him; be strong and do as God says, for God knows best (something along those lines). This story is mentioned so that Muslims can can aspire to being as faithful to God as he was.
     
  11. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    We know that a son was so highly valued in the ancient middle east.. Abraham and Sarah wanted to have a son and couldn't at that time so an agreement was made for Hagar to bear a son for Abraham... God suggests to Abraham in a dream (Quran 37:102):

    And [one day,] when [the child] had become old enough to share in his [father’s] endeavours, the latter said: “O my dear son! I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice thee: consider, then, what would be thy view!” [Ishmael] answered: “O my father! Do as thou art bidden: thou wilt find me, if God so wills, among those who are patient in adversity!”

    .................................

    Note how in the Quran the son is asked his view and he replies

    “O my father! Do as thou art bidden: thou wilt find me, if God so wills, among those who are patient in adversity!”

    Quran then has in verse 37:103,104 and 105

    But as soon as the two had surrendered themselves to [what they thought to be] the will of God, and [Abraham] had laid him down on his face, We called out to him: “O Abraham, thou hast already fulfilled [the purpose of] that dream- vision!”

    So as soon as the willingness to submit occurs Allah calls out to Abraham:

    "..thou hast already fulfilled [the purpose of] that dream- vision!”

    The Quranic translation is by Muhammad Asad.

    I can see where this topic will likely end up in a debate forum...
     
    #11 arthra, May 19, 2012
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  12. F0uad

    F0uad Well-Known Member

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    Abraham(p) communicated much with God and it was a order, and God stopped him of doing so.

    According to the bible and the Quran it was a test of devotion to god from the Son and The Father.

    The Op made a good point though.
     
  13. kai

    kai ragamuffin

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    MOD POST
    This is the Abrahamic Religions DIR please respect it as such.

    The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. Only posts that comply with the tenets or spirit of that DIR are permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.
     
  14. walidow

    walidow New Member

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    It is clear !! the meant for sacrifice was ISHMAEL ..

    his only son ! was Ishmael .. i advise every person to think again in every fact they face it and can not accept it because it goes against thier book or guidance or historical knowledge .. but instead of that .. let's be fair .. and compare .. with logic .. and search for the truth .. not to try hard to defend our belief even if we are wrong .. let's be fair .. forget being christian or muslim .. and ask yourself .. why christians believe that it was ISAAC but the bible explains this with a verse that contradicts the description of ISAAC .. and why muslims believe that it was Ishmael !! I can tell that ... bible coulden't prove that ISAAC was the chosen
    and Qur'an could simply prove that it was Ishmael ..
     
  15. Dingbat

    Dingbat Avatar of Brittania

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    Indeed, God never showed any intention of having an actual sacrifice but rather to see if his commandments would be obeyed. If Ibrahim (PBUH) could obey such a horrific commandment he would likely obey anything God would so command. There was never any intention of sacrifice but rather to test the resolve of the Prophet. Many prophets throughout the Torah are faced with trials that test their resolve to God though usually not as drastic.
     
  16. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

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    Ishmael was an illegitimate son and for that reason God had him sent away. Isaac was the child of promise...he was the one who was miraculously conceived by Abraham when he was 99 years old and Sarah when she was past the age of childbearing.

    And if Ismael was in the place of Isaac, then Jacob would have to be Ishmaels son and the jewish nation would actually be Ishmeals descendents....but you know that is not the case. The arab people are from Ishmael, the jews are from Jacob through Isaac.

    How could the quran get it so wrong?
     
  17. Bob Dixon

    Bob Dixon >implying

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    But the Qur'an doesn't get it wrong.
    In fact, the Qur'an doesn't even mention the name of the son. It's only Arabs who have later come to think that it was Ishmael who was to be sacrificed.
     
  18. Dingbat

    Dingbat Avatar of Brittania

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    Ishmael wasn't illegitimate unless doing what God commands is wrong now. The reason Ishmael and his mother were sent away is because it bothered Sarah who could now bear a child due to God. How can you get that so wrong?
     
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  19. Zion4ever

    Zion4ever zion4ever

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    In our traditional Jewish thought, the Akedah is used as a paradigm for Jewish martyrdom; the Jewish people are ready at all times to give up life itself for the sake of the sanctification of the divine name Kiddush Ha-Shem.

    I have come to feel as well that the binding of Isaac was also Abraham's test of God. Isaac was the son of promise, for God to take him before he had any progeny seemed a contradiction of the divine promise. But Abraham did as he was instructed, knowing God would provide Himself a sacrifice, which is what he precisely told his questioning son. I too ponder what this willingness to die as a sacrifice to God had upon Isaac. But his entire life seemed to have been one of passiveness, serving out his exclusive purpose:the father of Israel.
     
  20. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

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    but God didnt command Abraham to bear a child by Hagar, Sarah did. And after Sarah miraculously conceived, she wanted Ishmael gone and God agreed with her.

    So Ishmael was illegitimate in terms of being the firstborn and evidence of that is the fact that God did not pass on the right of firstborn to Ishmael....God gave that right to Isaac. He was the child of promise who was to become the first ancestor of the nation that God would adopt as his own for the purpose of producing the messiah to the world....the messiah being Jesus.
     
    #20 Pegg, Jul 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
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