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Abraham did not come from Ur of the Chaldees

74x12

Well-Known Member
And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son’s
son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram’s wife; and they went forth with
them from Ur of the Chaldees.... (Gen. 11:31)

A glaring mistake I came across whilst reading Genesis: Ur of the Chaldees did not exist until about the eighth century B.C., which is around one thousand years after the time of Abraham.
This signals that Genesis was written some time AFTER Christ's birth, which would have resulted in an erroneously written 'eyewitness' account.

Thoughts?
It's like talking about tribes of native Americans that lived in Texas. If someone took you literally they would say there was no Texas then. But of course you don't mean to imply that there was a Texas. You're talking about people that lived in what would be Texas.

The point is that Ur was definitely around in the time of Abraham and Terah. Not necessarily considered a Chaldean city yet. But even the name "Sumerian" is not what they would call themselves. Sumerian is a modern name given to ancient people that lived in Mesopotamia otherwise known as "Sumer"

As for this proving that Genesis was written after Christ's birth. That doesn't follow at all. Not sure how your math has led you to that conclusion.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
It's like talking about tribes of native Americans that lived in Texas. If someone took you literally they would say there was no Texas then. But of course you don't mean to imply that there was a Texas. You're talking about people that lived in what would be Texas.

The point is that Ur was definitely around in the time of Abraham and Terah. Not necessarily considered a Chaldean city yet. But even the name "Sumerian" is not what they would call themselves. Sumerian is a modern name given to ancient people that lived in Mesopotamia otherwise known as "Sumer"

As for this proving that Genesis was written after Christ's birth. That doesn't follow at all. Not sure how your math has led you to that conclusion.

I never said that Genesis was written after the birth of Christ.. I said it was written after the Babylonian exile.

As for Texas.... In the 1540s Spanish explorers took "teyshas" to be a tribal name, recording it as Teyas or Tejas.

Ur would have been in the river... If Abraham was from Ur, he would have been a Marsh Arab.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
I never said that Genesis was written after the birth of Christ.. I said it was written after the Babylonian exile.

As for Texas.... In the 1540s Spanish explorers took "teyshas" to be a tribal name, recording it as Teyas or Tejas.

Ur would have been in the river... If Abraham was from Ur, he would have been a Marsh Arab.
I didn't say you said anything. I wasn't even quoting you.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son’s
son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram’s wife; and they went forth with
them from Ur of the Chaldees.... (Gen. 11:31)

A glaring mistake I came across whilst reading Genesis: Ur of the Chaldees did not exist until about the eighth century B.C., which is around one thousand years after the time of Abraham.
This signals that Genesis was written some time AFTER Christ's birth, which would have resulted in an erroneously written 'eyewitness' account.

Thoughts?

Whoever wrote the story didn't know anything about the history or geography of the region.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
But apparently, I should believe that just because it is said so?

LOLOL.. Oh God.. Are you unfamiliar with the marshes and estuaries south of Basra? Ever heard of the Marsh Arabs? They have been there 6,000 years.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
I never said that Genesis was written after the birth of Christ.. I said it was written after the Babylonian exile.

As for Texas.... In the 1540s Spanish explorers took "teyshas" to be a tribal name, recording it as Teyas or Tejas.

Ur would have been in the river... If Abraham was from Ur, he would have been a Marsh Arab.

Nope! Abraham, whose father "Terah' was the high priest in the temple of Ur, in the land of the Chaldees, was a descendant of Shem the second born son of Noah, through Herber, the father of the Hebrew race.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
There was no Torah before Soloman's Temple was destroyed.. There was an enclave of observant Jews in Elephantine Island in Egypt with a Synagogue .. NOT Synagogue.. They had a Temple.


One bit of evidence..... the Jewish community at Elephantine, which was founded pre-exile, did not have the Torah based on the absence of any knowledge of the Torah in their documents from the 4th century BCE

Document from the 4th century are later than the exile which occurred in the late 5th century B.C., in fact, in 587 B.C.,

You wrote in another of your threads...….It is proven for certain, nonetheless, that members of this community were Jews. There names, identity, lifestyle, and religious traditions leave no doubt for their Jewishness. There is proof that they had observed the Shabbat and the Passover, and probably most of the other traditional Jewish holidays. Of special importance is the 'Passover Letter' which dated back to 419 B.C. The letter was from Hananiah to Jedenaiah of the Jewish garrison at Elephantine. On his letter, Hennania instructed the Jews to "keep the Festival of Unleavened Bread" and to "be pure and take heed."(C:21:6) along with other instructions related to the observance of the festival. Scholars suspect that this Hennaniah might have been the brother of the legendary Biblical figure, Nehemiah.

You will find all the important Shabbats, the Passover festival and the festival of unleavened Bread, are all recorded in the books of the Pentateuch, which were the Holy scrolls in the Temple of Solomon, which was sacked and burned by the forces of Nebuchadnezzar.

Clay cuneiform tablet. Note of ten sheep and ten goats taken from flocks in the city of Ur and sent off for delivery by Ur-kununna. Dated in the 5th year of Gimil-Sin, king of Ur, c. 2220 BCE.

(Accession No 1931.271) Museum of Archaeology & Anthropology, University of Cambridge,

Cuneiform Tablet, Ur - 3D View

The father of Abraham was the high priest in the temple of UR.
 
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Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son’s
son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram’s wife; and they went forth with
them from Ur of the Chaldees.... (Gen. 11:31)

A glaring mistake I came across whilst reading Genesis: Ur of the Chaldees did not exist until about the eighth century B.C., which is around one thousand years after the time of Abraham.
This signals that Genesis was written some time AFTER Christ's birth, which would have resulted in an erroneously written 'eyewitness' account.

Thoughts?
... How do you figure Genesis wasn't written until after Christ's birth? It seems at most you can only date it as recently as the existence of Ur?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Document from the 4th century are later than the exile which occurred in the late 5th century B.C., in fact, in 587 B.C.,

You wrote in another of your threads...….It is proven for certain, nonetheless, that members of this community were Jews. There names, identity, lifestyle, and religious traditions leave no doubt for their Jewishness. There is proof that they had observed the Shabbat and the Passover, and probably most of the other traditional Jewish holidays. Of special importance is the 'Passover Letter' which dated back to 419 B.C. The letter was from Hananiah to Jedenaiah of the Jewish garrison at Elephantine. On his letter, Hennania instructed the Jews to "keep the Festival of Unleavened Bread" and to "be pure and take heed."(C:21:6) along with other instructions related to the observance of the festival. Scholars suspect that this Hennaniah might have been the brother of the legendary Biblical figure, Nehemiah.

You will find all the important Shabbats, the Passover festival and the festival of unleavened Bread, are all recorded in the books of the Pentateuch, which were the Holy scrolls in the Temple of Solomon, which was sacked and burned by the forces of Nebuchadnezzar.

Clay cuneiform tablet. Note of ten sheep and ten goats taken from flocks in the city of Ur and sent off for delivery by Ur-kununna. Dated in the 5th year of Gimil-Sin, king of Ur, c. 2220 BCE.

(Accession No 1931.271) Museum of Archaeology & Anthropology, University of Cambridge,

Cuneiform Tablet, Ur - 3D View

The father of Abraham was the high priest in the temple of UR.

The Jewish garrison at Elephantine Island didn't exist in 2200 BC.

The Jews of Elephantine Island, which is located near the modern city of Aswan, once served as a military garrison of the Persian Empire guarding the southern border of Egypt around the 5th century B.C.E.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
The Jewish garrison at Elephantine Island didn't exist in 2200 BC.

The Jews of Elephantine Island, which is located near the modern city of Aswan, once served as a military garrison of the Persian Empire guarding the southern border of Egypt around the 5th century B.C.E.

Once again you prove your total inability to comprehend anything that you read.

The following statement has nothing whatsoever to do with the Jewish garrison at Elephantine Island, it was there to prove your date for the city of Ur, to be erroneous as is just about everything you post.

Clay cuneiform tablet. Note of ten sheep and ten goats taken from flocks in the city of Ur and sent off for delivery by Ur-kununna. Dated in the 5th year of Gimil-Sin, king of Ur, c. 2220 BCE.

And what year do you believe that Abraham with his father and other members of the family, left the city of Ur, to travel to Haran, in what is today the land of Turkey.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Once again you prove your total inability to comprehend anything that you read.

The following statement has nothing whatsoever to do with the Jewish garrison at Elephantine Island, it was there to prove your date for the city of Ur, to be erroneous as is just about everything you post.

Clay cuneiform tablet. Note of ten sheep and ten goats taken from flocks in the city of Ur and sent off for delivery by Ur-kununna. Dated in the 5th year of Gimil-Sin, king of Ur, c. 2220 BCE.

And what year do you believe that Abraham with his father and other members of the family, left the city of Ur, to travel to Haran, in what is today the land of Turkey.

There was NO city of Ur in Abraham's time.

The Mesopotamian city of Ur, known as Tell al-Muqayyar and the biblical Ur of the Chaldees), was an important Sumerian city-state between about 2025-1738 BC.

Located near the modern town of Nasiriyah in far southern Iraq, on a now-abandoned channel of the Euphrates river, Ur covered about 25 hectares (60 acres), surrounded by a city wall. When British archaeologist Charles Leonard Woolley excavated in the 1920s and 1930s, the city was a tell—a great artificial hill over seven meters (23 feet) high composed of centuries of building and rebuilding mud-brick structures, one stacked on top of another.

The Mesopotamian City of Ur

Abraham was born somewhere in the range of 1852-1872 BCE and died 175 years later (1677-1697).

Too late for the city of UR.....
Abraham
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/abraham
(c. 1813 BCE - c. 1638 BCE) According to Jewish tradition, Abraham was born under the name Abram in the city of Ur in Babylonia in the year 1948 from Creation (circa 1800 BCE). He was the son of Terach, an idol merchant, but from his early childhood, he questioned the faith of his father and sought the truth.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Yet, before we move on, one interesting thing is where it states, “Ur of the Chaldeans.” This is the first time in the Bible where the reference to the people of the Chaldeans, is mentioned. The other two major occurrences outside the book of Genesis are in Nehemiah 9:7, and Acts 7:4. What is interesting is that during the time of Abraham the people called, Chaldeans did not exist and when Nehemiah and Acts were written, the Chaldeans had come and gone. So what is this saying then?

Well, the book of Genesis is the key. Basically, when Moses wrote what is now called “Genesis” or “Beri’****” in Hebrew, meaning, “beginning,” the Chaldeans did exist, but there were at least four places called Ur.

So Moses attached the people group to the specific city so his readers would know which “Ur” he was speaking about.

Thus, we get in all three cases, Abraham being named as coming from Ur of the Chaldeans, or the Ur where the Chaldeans would later settle by.

Abraham: From Ur to Haran
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
2025-1738In post #33 soda wrote...… The Mesopotamian city of Ur, known as Tell al-Muqayyar and the biblical Ur of the Chaldees), was an important Sumerian city-state between about 2025-1738 BC.

Abraham was born somewhere in the range of 1852-1872 BCE and died 175 years later (1677-1697).

Too late for the city of UR.....

The Anointed...….. People who have the ability to comprehend that which they read, would know that your estimated birth date of Abraham as somewhere between 1852-1872 B.C.,, is between your estimated existence of the city of Ur, which is 2025-1738 B.C.

2025 B.C., 1852-1872B.C., 1738 B.C.

And you say that the birth of Abraham who was born between 1852 and 1872 B.C., is Too late for him to have been born in the city of UR, which is estimated to have still been in existence in 1738 B.C., some 130 years after the birth of Abraham.

Exactly where in your body is your brain located?
 
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sooda

Veteran Member
2025-1738In post #33 soda wrote...… The Mesopotamian city of Ur, known as Tell al-Muqayyar and the biblical Ur of the Chaldees), was an important Sumerian city-state between about 2025-1738 BC.

Abraham was born somewhere in the range of 1852-1872 BCE and died 175 years later (1677-1697).

Too late for the city of UR.....

The Anointed...….. People who have the ability to comprehend that which they read, would know that your estimated birth date of Abraham as somewhere between 1852-1872 B.C.,, is between your estimated
existence of the city of Ur, which is 2025-1738 B.C.
2025 B.C., 1852-1872B.C., 1738 B.C.
And you say that the birth of Abraham who was born between 1852 and 1872 B.C., is Too late for him to have been born in the city of UR, which is estimated to have still been in existence in 1738 B.C., some 130 years after the birth of Abraham.
Exactly where in your body is your brain located?

Ur didn't last long.. Why do you think Abraham traveled to Haran? Up until 1850 Christians believed that Abraham was from Urfa near Haran.

It might help you to read the basics of Mesopotamian history.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Pagans worshipped creation not the creator.



During the periods of Halaf (5500-4500 BC), Ubaid (5300-3750 BC) and Protoliterate (3750-2900 BC) we see incredible changes take Mesopotamia by storm. We see an increase in pottery design and decoration, the smelting of copper and other metals which replace stone tools and weapons, we see towns increase in size by the thousands, enhanced irrigation systems put in place, temples grow larger and higher, and fertility become a focal point of the peoples.


During these times nearly 70% of all children under age five died, and with deaths increasing from people in battles a sense of the progression of life was focused upon.

To the peoples of these periods, they also saw fertility as the earth giving back, and pantheons of gods and goddesses began to develop so that by 3000 BC there were over four thousand deities worshiped in the region as mankind worshiped and adored the creation instead of the true Creator.

Abraham: From Ur to Haran
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
There was NO city of Ur in Abraham's time.

The Mesopotamian city of Ur, known as Tell al-Muqayyar and the biblical Ur of the Chaldees), was an important Sumerian city-state between about 2025-1738 BC.

Located near the modern town of Nasiriyah in far southern Iraq, on a now-abandoned channel of the Euphrates river, Ur covered about 25 hectares (60 acres), surrounded by a city wall. When British archaeologist Charles Leonard Woolley excavated in the 1920s and 1930s, the city was a tell—a great artificial hill over seven meters (23 feet) high composed of centuries of building and rebuilding mud-brick structures, one stacked on top of another.

The Mesopotamian City of Ur

Abraham was born somewhere in the range of 1852-1872 BCE and died 175 years later (1677-1697).

Too late for the city of UR.....
Abraham
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/abraham
(c. 1813 BCE - c. 1638 BCE) According to Jewish tradition, Abraham was born under the name Abram in the city of Ur in Babylonia in the year 1948 from Creation (circa 1800 BCE). He was the son of Terach, an idol merchant, but from his early childhood, he questioned the faith of his father and sought the truth.
Ever thought those dates could be wrong? You're going by "tradition"?
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Ur didn't last long.. Why do you think Abraham traveled to Haran? Up until 1850 Christians believed that Abraham was from Urfa near Haran.

It might help you to read the basics of Mesopotamian history.

Why do I think Abraham moved from the city of Ur to Haran? Because Abraham had set fire to the temple in that city, in which fire, his brother Haran died trying to save the gods in that temple.

You say; "It might help if I were to read the basics of Mesopotamian history."

I have, but not from you scholars who are over 4,000 years removed from the events as handed down orally by eye witnesses.
 
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