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Abraham and Jesus

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Well... :) you certainly didn't refute what I said. :)



The first sentence is true... but what "is said" doesn't change the fact that the Jews rejected it.



This is true as was the dark ages. Doesn't change the centuries before and what was accepted and what wasn't. :)



I don't know... what I do know is that the Septuagint was widely used by the synagogues throughout the known world. Why would they accept that translation?

The Septuagint which was a Greek translation of the Hebrew bible that was in existence well before Jesus, agrees with the book of Jubilees, which states that Cainin was the father of Shelah, while your erroneous OT states that Arpachshad was the father of Shelah, in fact your OT doesn't even mention Cainam.Kainam,

But Luke, who studied from the Septuagint agrees that Cainam is the father of Shelah, also Luke's companion Paul, states that the Israelites were not in Egypt for 430 years to the day as stated in your erroneous OT, but were in the land of Canaan for 215 Years before moving into Egypt, where they remained for another 215 years.

If you were not so afraid of eating the spiritual food that is forbidden by your Roman mother church, you might begin to understand the truths as revealed by Jesus and his Apostles

I refuse to accept anything written in your erroneous OT, until I have checked it out against all other scripture that were used by Jesus and his apostles.
 
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Mitty

Active Member
The Septuagint which was a Greek translation of the Hebrew bible that was in existence well before Jesus, agrees with the book of Jubilees, which states that Cainin was the father of Shelah, while your erroneous OT states that Arpachshad was the father of Shelah, in fact your OT doesn't even mention Cainam.Kainam,

But Luke, who studied from the Septuagint agrees that Cainam is the father of Shelah, also Luke's companion Paul, states that the Israelites were not in Egypt for 430 years to the day as stated in your erroneous OT, but were in the land of Canaan for 215 Years before moving into Egypt, where they remained for another 215 years.

If you were not so afraid of eating the spiritual food that is forbidden by your Roman mother church, you might begin to understand the truths as revealed by Jesus and his Apostles

I refuse to accept anything written in your erroneous OT, until I have checked it out against all other scripture that were used by Jesus and his apostles.
But wasn't Canaan part of Ancient Egypt anyway?
https://mapcollection.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/ancient_egypt_enlarged.jpg
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member

Why did the Jews reject the books of Enoch the prophet, when we know that Moses was not only familiar with the writings of righteous Enoch, who was taken by God at the age of 365 and translated in order that he should never experience death, but gave to his brother Aaron some of the regulations of his new church, as taken from the books of Enoch?

Even the early christians cherished the books of Enoch from which Jesus and his apostles taught, right up until the fourth century, when under the ban of dogmatic authorities of the Roman Church of Emperor Constantine, such as Jerome, Hilary and Augustine they finally passed out of circulation, and were thought lost for millennia.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member

The scriptures do not reveal exactly what Canaan had done to his grandfather Noah, as he lay naked in a drunken stupor in his tent, so we can only speculate as to what occurred. My own personal opinion is that Canaan, the ancestor of today’s Palestinians, sodomised his grandfather, but like I said, that is only my personal opinion.

Shem, is the younger brother of Ham the firstborn son of Noah, and Ham is the father of Canaan whom Noah cursed when he awoke from his drunken stupor and realised what his youngest descendant [Canaan] had done to him. After cursing Canaan, Shem was given the blessing of first born by Noah, which was removed from his elder brother, “Ham,” because of what his son Canaan had done to him. See Genesis 9: 24 to 27.

The scriptures tell us that Noah had begun his family when he had turned 500, If it had been after he turned 510, the bible would have stated that, if it was after Noah had turned 505, the bible would have said so, if it were after Noah turned 502, this would have been revealed in scripture, but no! The Bible tells us that it was when Noah turned 500 that he began his family.

Genesis 8: 4; On the seventeenth day of the seventh month of the six hundredth year of Noah, the boat came to rest on a mountain in the Ararat range, showing that Noah, who began his family with his firstborn son (HAM) in his 500 th year, was six hundred years old when the flood came to its finish. Then in Genesis 11: 10; we read; “These are the descendants of Shem. Two years after the flood, when Shem was 100 years old etc.” Here, the scriptures reveal to all, that Shem was born when Noah was 502.

And again, in Genesis 10: 21; we read that “Shem is the older brother of Japheth.” Knowing from the scriptures, that Japheth was the younger brother of Shem, and being assured by the scriptures that Shem was born when Noah was 502, and that Noah began his Family when he turned 500; we have deduced from all this, that Ham was the firstborn son of Noah.

The reason why God sent the descendants of Shem into the land of the first born son of Noah, Ham/Egypt, was because of what Canaan the youngest descent of Noah had done to him while he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor; Genesis 9: 24; When Noah sobered up and learned what his youngest son/descendant had done to him, he cursed Canaan and blessed his second son Shem, on who he then bestowed the blessing of first born.

Jubilees 7: 13; And Ham knew that his father had cursed his younger son, and he was displeased that he had cursed his son. and he parted from his father, he and his sons with him, Cush and Mizraim and Put and Canaan. And he built for himself a city and called its name after the name of his wife Ne’elatama’uk.

The Book of Jubilees Chapter 8: When Noah divided the Land among his three sons, Shem received the middle portion, from the delta of the river of Egypt, north to Lebanon and east to India, while Ham received the land of Africa to the south, and Japheth received the land to the north of Lebanon, which according to the book of Jubilees 8: 30; It is said that the Land of Japheth included the five great islands and a great land in the north. But it is cold, and the land of Ham is Hot, and the land of Shem (The middle son) is neither hot nor cold, but it is of blended cold and heat.

The sons of Noah then divided their portion of land among their sons, and it is written in Jubilees 9: 14; “And thus the sons of Noah divided unto their sons in the presence of Noah their father, and he bound them all by an oath, imprecating a curse on everyone who sought to seize the portion that had not fallen to him by lot. And they all said, ‘So be it; so be it,’ for themselves and for their sons for ever throughout their generations til the day of judgement, etc.”

Then in chapter 10: 29; we read; “And Canaan saw the land of Lebanon to the river Egypt, that it was very good, and he went not into the land of his inheritance to the west (That is to) the sea, and he dwelt in the land of Lebanon, eastward and westward from the border of the Jordan and from the border of the sea. And Ham his father, and Cush and Mizraim, his brothers said unto him: ‘Thou hast settled in a land which is not thine, and which did not fall to us by lot: do not do so; for if thou dost do so, thou and thy sons will fall in the land and be accursed through sedition; for by sedition ye have settled; and by sedition will thy children fall, and thou shalt be rooted out forever, etc.

After Noah had transferred the blessing of firstborn to Shem, the Lord God then had to remove from Ham the spirit of Firstborn and implant it into the expanded body of Shem.

Because of what his youngest descendant ‘Canaan’ had done to him while he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor, Noah cursed Canaan and removed the blessing of first born from Canaan’s father “Ham,” and gave it to his second born son ‘Shem,’ who was born when Noah was 502 and Shem is the older brother of Japheth. Now, the Holy Spirit had to transfer the spirit of the first born (Ham) to the body of the second born (Shem).

Do you know how the descendants of Shem received the spirit of the first born of Noah?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Why did the Jews reject the books of Enoch the prophet, when we know that Moses was not only familiar with the writings of righteous Enoch, who was taken by God at the age of 365 and translated in order that he should never experience death, but gave to his brother Aaron some of the regulations of his new church, as taken from the books of Enoch?

Even the early christians cherished the books of Enoch from which Jesus and his apostles taught, right up until the fourth century, when under the ban of dogmatic authorities of the Roman Church of Emperor Constantine, such as Jerome, Hilary and Augustine they finally passed out of circulation, and were thought lost for millennia.
Constantine wasn't a Church Father.

Have you checked the Jewish sites to see why they didn't accept the book of Enoch?
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Constantine wasn't a Church Father.

Have you checked the Jewish sites to see why they didn't accept the book of Enoch?

Crucifixion was a rite in the mysteries of many countries and especially those of Egypt, See ‘The Secret Doctrines,’ vol. 11, p. 558. The initiated adept, who had successfully passed all the trials, was tied to a cross deep inside a Temple Crypt or cave, he was then drugged and plunged into a deep sleep in which state, in the darkness of the bowels of the earth, he remained for three days and three nights, during which time his spirit=mind, is said to have descended into Hades to communicate with the Gods.

Moses, who was the adopted grandson of Pharaoh and who would have been afforded the best education in the country, may have been initiated into the circle of the guardians of the sacred secrets.

Moses took the bread or the sacred spiritual food of Egypt [The land of First Born] and removed the yeast and gave to the children of Israel the regulations, rules and laws, that the Israelites were to keep for all time. --------- In one of the religious regulations established by Moses, Aaron would place his hand upon the head of a scapegoat, symbolically transferring the sins of Israel to the goat, which was then sent out into the wilderness to Azazel. (See Leviticus 16: 20-21.) What or who, is this Azazel?

In the margins of the Good News Catholic Study Bible, Leviticus 16: concerning “Azazel” it is written by the Catholic authors of the GNB; ‘AZAZEL’ “The meaning of this Hebrew word is unknown: it may be the name of a desert demon.” ‘Azazel’ see Leviticus16: 8-10.

According to the ancient writings, it was in the days of Enoch’s Father ‘Jared’, which name means ‘Descending,’ that 200 Sons of God, who Enoch describes as watchers or rather OBSERVERS, descended and introduced into the primitive culture of mankind, technology that was about equivalent to that which had been achieved three thousand years in the future.

The Orthodox religious organisations are ignorant as to who Azazel is, because they have rejected the words of Enoch, who is the chosen cornerstone, to who all the spirits of the righteous are gathered in the creation of the new temple of light, which is to replace God’s old tent, the body of mankind, wherein the innermost sanctuary, behind the veil of the flesh dwells our parental spirit: The stone that has been rejected by the builders of the Jewish and universal church of Emperor Constantine has turned out to be the most important Stone of all.

The books of Enoch from which Jesus and his apostles taught, were cherished by the early Christians and were held in great reverence by many of the early church fathers, including Irenaeus, Tertullian and Origen, until the early 4th century when, under the ban of dogmatic religious authorities such as Jerome, Hillary and Augustin, they finally passed out of circulation and were thought lost for millennia.

In the Epistle of Jude, who is also called Thomas Didymus Jude [The Twin], and who was born to the house of Mary the mother of Jesus and her husband, the carpenter, See Matthew 13: 55; Jude quotes verbatim from the book of Enoch.

The name Jared, means “DESCENDING” see Young’s Analytical Concordance. And in the Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, it is written that it was in the days of Jared [The physical father of Enoch] that the Sons of God abandoned their own original habitat and defiled themselves with the daughters of man.

This is also verified by Jude in your NT canon.

In his last testament, Reuben, the first born son of Jacob who was renamed Israel, states that those Sons of God [The shining ones] would possess the bodies of the men while they were with their wives and from there were able to pass on their issue and giants were born of those unions, and according to Jewish culture, Noah was born a Giant.

From the ‘Book of Enoch the Prophet’ CVI: 1-6, “Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son. And his body was as white as snow and (His cheeks) as red as the blooming of a rose and the hair on his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him, and Lamech fled and ran to his father Methuselah. And he said to him: “I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different, and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems that he is not sprung from me, but from the angels. And I fear that in his days, a wonder may be wrought on the earth.

Concerning Azazel, we read in the Book of Enoch the prophet, chapter 9 to chapter 10; “And Michael said to the heavenly Lord, "Seest what ‘AZAZEL’ hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and has revealed the eternal secrets which were preserved in heaven, which men were striving to learn. And Semjaza, to whom you have given authority to bear rule over his associates (The other 199 sons of God) and they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth and have slept with them and revealed to them all kinds of sin etc.

Semjaza, the leader of the observers, taught enchantments, and root cutting, among other sons of God who revealed to the women all kinds of sin, were Armaros, who taught the resolving of enchantments, Baralqual taught astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon, etc.

But Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tintures etc.

Tubal-Cain, was from an age of man prior to Seth the first in the line of descendants from Adam according to the genealogy recorded in Genesis 5: and Tubal-Cain had been an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron, which knowledge was stored in heaven when that age came to its end)

The Lord, through his only begotten prophet Enoch, then passed judgment on the angels who had forsaken their own original habitat and came down and defiled themselves with the daughters of men, saying to them; “You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew only worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries, women and men work much evil on earth.”

They were then to be bound and cast into the valley of the earth until seventy generations had passed, (Jesus was seventy generations from Enoch, see Luke 3: 23-38) but Azazel was punished separate from the others, See the Book of Enoch the Prophet 10: 4-9; “And again the Lord said to Raphael: Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening) in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein.

And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there forever, and cover his face that he may 6,7) not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: TO HIM ASCRIBE ALL SIN.

The sins of Israel were transferred to the scapegoat and sent out into the wilderness to Azazel, to whom all sin is ascribed.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: TO HIM ASCRIBE ALL SIN.

The sins of Israel were transferred to the scapegoat and sent out into the wilderness to Azazel, to whom all sin is ascribed.

Nope :)
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
But without Constantine, Christianity would have remained just a minor cult.

Matthew 27: 9-11; “That which was spoken by ‘THE PROPHET’ was fulfilled: "They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on him by the people of Israel, and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the LORD commanded me."

Zechariah 11:12-17 New King James Version (NKJV) Then I said to them, “If it is agreeable to you, give me my wages; and if not, refrain.” So they weighed out for my wages thirty pieces of silver..

And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—that princely price they set on me. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord for the potter. 14 Then I cut in two my other staff, Bonds, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 And the Lord said to me, “Next, take for yourself the implements of a foolish shepherd. 16 For indeed I will raise up a shepherd in the land who will not care for those who are cut off, nor seek the young, nor heal those that are broken, nor feed those that still stand. But he will eat the flesh of the fat and tear their hooves in pieces.

17 “Woe to the worthless shepherd,
Who leaves the flock!
A sword shall be against his arm
And against his right eye;
His arm shall completely wither,
And his right eye shall be totally blinded.”

Oh you shepherd of the darkness, who claim God sent you out
And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages ‘cross the floor,
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide this flock no more
A worthless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide this stubborn flock
And he will be a useless one, of him I’ll take no stock
For he’ll not feed my little ones, nor search for them that’s lost
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep. And their hooves? He tears them off
That worthless shepherd, he is doomed for abandoning my flock
His power, will I destroy by war, his arm will wither dry, then drop
And his right eye will I turn Blind, that’s why he’s never seen
The passage where I speak of him, Zechariah eleven—twelve to seventeen.

There is but one church, which claims to be the Universal church, the head of which church claims to be the shepherd of Gods people, who was raised up after the Lord, who revealed himself through his obedient earthly host body, ‘The Man Jesus’ was paid the majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver, which was cast to the potter in the house of the Lord.

Proof: Popes Claim To Be God!
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member

Leviticus 16: 7-10; Then he shall take the two goats to the entrance of the Tent of the LORD's presence. There he shall draw lots, using two stones, one marked “for the LORD” and the other “for AZAZEL”. Aaron shall sacrifice the goat chosen by lot for the LORD and offer it as a sin offering. The goat chosen for AZAZEL shall be presented alive to the LORD and sent off into the desert to AZAZEL, in order to take away the sins of the people.

Leviticus 16: 20-22; When Aaron has finished performing the ritual to purify the Most Holy Place, the rest of the Tent of the LORD's presence, and the altar, he shall present to the LORD the live goat chosen for Azazel. 21He shall put both his hands on the goat's head and confess over it all the evils, sins, and rebellions of the people of Israel, and so transfer them to the goat's head. Then the goat is to be driven off into the desert by someone appointed to do it. 22The goat will carry all their sins away with him into some uninhabited land.

Please reveal who this Azazel is? -------- Check out post #88.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Leviticus 16: 7-10; Then he shall take the two goats to the entrance of the Tent of the LORD's presence. There he shall draw lots, using two stones, one marked “for the LORD” and the other “for AZAZEL”. Aaron shall sacrifice the goat chosen by lot for the LORD and offer it as a sin offering. The goat chosen for AZAZEL shall be presented alive to the LORD and sent off into the desert to AZAZEL, in order to take away the sins of the people.

Leviticus 16: 20-22; When Aaron has finished performing the ritual to purify the Most Holy Place, the rest of the Tent of the LORD's presence, and the altar, he shall present to the LORD the live goat chosen for Azazel. 21He shall put both his hands on the goat's head and confess over it all the evils, sins, and rebellions of the people of Israel, and so transfer them to the goat's head. Then the goat is to be driven off into the desert by someone appointed to do it. 22The goat will carry all their sins away with him into some uninhabited land.

Please reveal who this Azazel is?


THE MEANING OF THE WORD “AZAZEL”

Scholars readily admit that the meaning of this word is highly debatable due to the fact that it is so obscure. In fact, Feinburg notes, “the name occurs nowhere else in Hebrew.” The only three verses in the Bible in which the word is found are here in chapter 16 of Leviticus (verses 8, 10, and 26). Feinburg quotes the Numerical Bible, “Azazel is a mere adoption of the Hebrew word, as to the meaning and application of which there have been so many different thoughts, that some are content to leave it as an insoluble enigma.”

This is why it is translated differently in our various Bible versions. For example, here’s a sampling of the renderings for verse 8:

KJV: And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

NKJV: Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the Lord and the other for the scapegoat.

RSV: and Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one for the Lord and the other lot for Aza’zel.

NIV: He is to cast lots for the two goats- one lot for the LORD and the other for the scapegoat.

ESV: And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the Lord and the other lot for Azazel.

Young’s Literal Translation: ‘And Aaron hath given lots over the two goats, one lot for Jehovah, and one lot for a goat of departure

Why is Azazel translated as scapegoat? Strong’s Concordance 5799defines “azazel” as “scapegoat.” The NAS Exhaustive Concordance lists the following information: word origin- from an unused word; definition- entire removal.

Feinberg notes, “The word ‘Azazel’ has been variously interpreted. […] It has been explained, as a place, a thing, a person, and an abstraction.” We’ll look at each.

A Place

The Jewish Virtual Library notes that there has been debate over the meaning of the word “Azazel” since Talmudic times. Bible Study Tools defines the Talmud as, “a large collection of writings, containing a full account of the civil and religious laws of the Jews.” The oral traditions recorded in the Talmud predate Jesus’ incarnation. Some held that “Azazel” referred to a place. JVL explains, “the word Azazel is a parallel to “a land which is cut off” (Lev. 16:22), meaning (according to the rabbinic interpretation) an area of rocks and cliffs, i.e., inaccessible. The word Azazel is also interpreted as meaning strong and hard as though it were written עזז אל, namely, hardest of the mountains (Yoma 63b; cf. Sifra Aḥarei Mot 2:8; Targum Jonathan to Lev. 16:10). It does appear, however, that this is an attempt to reconcile the meaning of the word Azazel with the actual usage in the time of the Second Temple, namely to bring the goat to a cliff and to push it over. The interpretation does not quite fit the written form of the word עזאזל.” (emphasis mine)

Actually, the whole of the two goats represents Jesus Christ and His atonement in Christian understanding. I was going, and will, give a Christian understanding shortly.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
THE MEANING OF THE WORD “AZAZEL”

Scholars readily admit that the meaning of this word is highly debatable due to the fact that it is so obscure. In fact, Feinburg notes, “the name occurs nowhere else in Hebrew.” The only three verses in the Bible in which the word is found are here in chapter 16 of Leviticus (verses 8, 10, and 26). Feinburg quotes the Numerical Bible, “Azazel is a mere adoption of the Hebrew word, as to the meaning and application of which there have been so many different thoughts, that some are content to leave it as an insoluble enigma.”

This is why it is translated differently in our various Bible versions. For example, here’s a sampling of the renderings for verse 8:

KJV: And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

NKJV: Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the Lord and the other for the scapegoat.

RSV: and Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one for the Lord and the other lot for Aza’zel.

NIV: He is to cast lots for the two goats- one lot for the LORD and the other for the scapegoat.

ESV: And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the Lord and the other lot for Azazel.

Young’s Literal Translation: ‘And Aaron hath given lots over the two goats, one lot for Jehovah, and one lot for a goat of departure

Why is Azazel translated as scapegoat? Strong’s Concordance 5799defines “azazel” as “scapegoat.” The NAS Exhaustive Concordance lists the following information: word origin- from an unused word; definition- entire removal.

Feinberg notes, “The word ‘Azazel’ has been variously interpreted. […] It has been explained, as a place, a thing, a person, and an abstraction.” We’ll look at each.

A Place

The Jewish Virtual Library notes that there has been debate over the meaning of the word “Azazel” since Talmudic times. Bible Study Tools defines the Talmud as, “a large collection of writings, containing a full account of the civil and religious laws of the Jews.” The oral traditions recorded in the Talmud predate Jesus’ incarnation. Some held that “Azazel” referred to a place. JVL explains, “the word Azazel is a parallel to “a land which is cut off” (Lev. 16:22), meaning (according to the rabbinic interpretation) an area of rocks and cliffs, i.e., inaccessible. The word Azazel is also interpreted as meaning strong and hard as though it were written עזז אל, namely, hardest of the mountains (Yoma 63b; cf. Sifra Aḥarei Mot 2:8; Targum Jonathan to Lev. 16:10). It does appear, however, that this is an attempt to reconcile the meaning of the word Azazel with the actual usage in the time of the Second Temple, namely to bring the goat to a cliff and to push it over. The interpretation does not quite fit the written form of the word עזאזל.” (emphasis mine)

Actually, the whole of the two goats represents Jesus Christ and His atonement in Christian understanding. I was going, and will, give a Christian understanding shortly.

Yep! The Jews have rejected the words of righteous Enoch of who it is recorded in their Bible; "When Enoch was 65, he had a son, Methuselah. After that, Enoch lived in fellowship with God for 300 years and had other children. He lived to be 365 years old. He spent his life in fellowship with God, and then he disappeared, because God took him away."

Proof: Popes Claim To Be God!

I assume that you are referring to Walter Feinberg a Catholic member of the church of Emperor Constantine, which church is the worthless shepherd that God raised up in the land after he had abandoned his Jewish flock.

The one church, which claims to be the Universal church, the head of which church claims to be the shepherd of Gods people, who was raised up after the Lord, who revealed himself through his obedient earthly host body, ‘The Man Jesus’ was paid the majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver, which was cast to the potter in the house of the Lord.

Even though the author of the book of Hebrews knew that Enoch was taken to God and translated in order that he should not experience death, revealing that he had received that information from the same work that reveals all sin was inscribed to Azazel, the Son of God, who came down in the days of Jared the father of Enoch, and who taught mankind to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tintures etc.

Who was the earthly temple, which the Lord God our savior filled with his spirit, and of which temple he said; "DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND I WILL RAISE IT UP IN THREE DAY?

When someone does something wrong and they don't want to be blamed themselves, they will generally chose a scapegoat to take the blame. Who was the scapegoat that was chosen to take the blame for the sins of Israel?

The stone that the builders of the Jewish and Roman churches have rejected has turned out to be the most important stone of all.

The Lord God our savior, 'The Son of Man' who had filled the man Jesus with his spirit, his words, which Jesus was commanded to speak to the people in the name of 'THE SON OF MAN,' who ceased to be an individual entity, when Jesus, gave up the spirit as he cried our "My God, My God, why have you abandoned me, and all the righteous spirits on which Enoch had evolved over the three thousand years (Three days) that he had been in the valley of Man, were released and their graves were opened and three days later those saints entered the holy city and revealed themselves as the risen body of the Anointed one.

All have sinned and all must die once then go off into judgement. We all must pay the blood price for the sins of the flesh in which we develop, even the 'SON OF MAN' who develops within the great androgynous body of Eve, who has become the body of mankind.

Psalms 51: 5; The developing Spirit within man cried out, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive Me.

The SON OF MAN is the only one who can pay the penalty for the sins of the flesh in which he develops.

Jesus proved that all who believed in the 'Son of Man' even though they die, yet shall they live again.
But now that the penalty for the sins of Eve has been paid, there is one upon this earth who is to prove that those who live and truly believe on the 'Son of Man' will never die.

That one is He, who is chosen by Elijah, who is to appear immediately before the great tribulation, and who, Like Enoch has now been in the valley of man for three days also, he will quicken the body of his chosen one, (Whoever that may be) and that one will never die.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Yep! The Jews have rejected the words of righteous Enoch of who it is recorded in their Bible; "When Enoch was 65, he had a son, Methuselah. After that, Enoch lived in fellowship with God for 300 years and had other children. He lived to be 365 years old. He spent his life in fellowship with God, and then he disappeared, because God took him away."

Proof: Popes Claim To Be God!

I assume that you are referring to Walter Feinberg a Catholic member of the church of Emperor Constantine, which church is the worthless shepherd that God raised up in the land after he had abandoned his Jewish flock.

The one church, which claims to be the Universal church, the head of which church claims to be the shepherd of Gods people, who was raised up after the Lord, who revealed himself through his obedient earthly host body, ‘The Man Jesus’ was paid the majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver, which was cast to the potter in the house of the Lord.

Even though the author of the book of Hebrews knew that Enoch was taken to God and translated in order that he should not experience death, revealing that he had received that information from the same work that reveals all sin was inscribed to Azazel, the Son of God, who came down in the days of Jared the father of Enoch, and who taught mankind to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tintures etc.

Who was the earthly temple, which the Lord God our savior filled with his spirit, and of which temple he said; "DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND I WILL RAISE IT UP IN THREE DAY?

When someone does something wrong and they don't want to be blamed themselves, they will generally chose a scapegoat to take the blame. Who was the scapegoat that was chosen to take the blame for the sins of Israel?

The stone that the builders of the Jewish and Roman churches have rejected has turned out to be the most important stone of all.

The Lord God our savior, 'The Son of Man' who had filled the man Jesus with his spirit, his words, which Jesus was commanded to speak to the people in the name of 'THE SON OF MAN,' who ceased to be an individual entity, when Jesus, gave up the spirit as he cried our "My God, My God, why have you abandoned me, and all the righteous spirits on which Enoch had evolved over the three thousand years (Three days) that he had been in the valley of Man, were released and their graves were opened and three days later those saints entered the holy city and revealed themselves as the risen body of the Anointed one.

All have sinned and all must die once then go off into judgement. We all must pay the blood price for the sins of the flesh in which we develop, even the 'SON OF MAN' who develops within the great androgynous body of Eve, who has become the body of mankind.

Psalms 51: 5; The developing Spirit within man cried out, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive Me.

The SON OF MAN is the only one who can pay the penalty for the sins of the flesh in which he develops.

Jesus proved that all who believed in the 'Son of Man' even though they die, yet shall they live again.
But now that the penalty for the sins of Eve has been paid, there is one upon this earth who is to prove that those who live and truly believe on the 'Son of Man' will never die.

That one is He, who is chosen by Elijah, who is to appear immediately before the great tribulation, and who, Like Enoch has now been in the valley of man for three days also, he will quicken the body of his chosen one, (Whoever that may be) and that one will never die.
Dear Anointed,

You have so much that is true and it is obvious that you are a person of great study habits. We intersect in agreement is so many areas and wee could go on, but the reality is that there is a dividing line between where you stand and I. You believe some books are from God and I don't.

I can tell that we both are pretty settled in our positions and there won't be any budging (which, of course, doesn't lessen my respect for you nor does it change that I believe you are my brother in Christ).... but we just won't find common ground on the Apocryphal books.

So let's leave it at that and....

Shalom to you
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Dear Anointed,

You have so much that is true and it is obvious that you are a person of great study habits. We intersect in agreement is so many areas and wee could go on, but the reality is that there is a dividing line between where you stand and I. You believe some books are from God and I don't.

I can tell that we both are pretty settled in our positions and there won't be any budging (which, of course, doesn't lessen my respect for you nor does it change that I believe you are my brother in Christ).... but we just won't find common ground on the Apocryphal books.

So let's leave it at that and....

Shalom to you

Then by all means, let us remain with your limited canon.

In the Subject Guide of Yong's Analytical Concordance, concerning Cleopas, it is said that the name Cleopas means 'Of a renown Father' who the husband of Mary, and is also called Alphaeus.

Cleophas is the Greek for 'Of a renown father,' and the name Alphaeus, who is the father of James the brother of Jesus, is the Aramaic for 'Of a renown father,' also.

From “JESUS THE EVIDENCE” by Ian Wilson; P. 127. “And of James the son of Alpheaus, who was the first to sit on the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision in Jerusalem, we learn from Josephus, Eusebius, and Hegesippus, that he was murdered in 62 AD, at the instigation of one of the same Sadducee sect that had his brother Jesus murdered, and that James the righteous was succeeded by Simeon of Cleophas/Alpheaus.

Why do you believe that the first men to who the risen Christ appeared, were Cleophas the husband of Mary and his son Simeon, who succeeded to the episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision after the death of James?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Then by all means, let us remain with your limited canon.

:D I prefer sticking with that which is the truth vs pseudo truths. :D

Why do you believe that the first men to who the risen Christ appeared, were Cleophas the husband of Mary and his son Simeon, who succeeded to the episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision after the death of James?

Why is that important to you?

Why do you think that he appeared first to Cleophas and not the disciples?
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
:D I prefer sticking with that which is the truth vs pseudo truths. :D



Why is that important to you?

Why do you think that he appeared first to Cleophas and not the disciples?

Because it is recorded in the scriptures that on the day of the resurrection, while the apostles were locked in a room in Jerusalem, Cleophas and another follower of Jesus, walked to Emmaus with one of the risen body of Christ, who was recognised as Jesus, by the other follower, by the manner in which he broke the bread.

Cleophas, the husband of Mary, then returned to Jerusalem where the apostles were hiding, those apostles Simon Peter and Simon the patriot, and Cleophas cried out, "He has risen, he appeared to Simon." who was not Simon Peter, or Simon the patriot. The only apostle that was not present that night was Thomas Didymus Jude the twin. whether he was an actual twin, or simply held a striking resemblance to one with who he shared a common father.

It was not uncommon for men of Galilee in those days to carry three names, one in Hebrew, one in Greek, and one in Aramaic. The son of Matthat and Alexandra, the should have been Hasmonian Queen, was ‘Alexander Helios III,’ who sired Joseph the biological father of Jesus, would have been seen as a father of renowned. Alpheaus and Cleophas, in Young’ s Analytical Concordance Subject Guide, are said to be one and the same person: From the Subject Guide; “Cleophas, husband of Mary, also called Alpheaus.”

Joseph, the biological father of Jesus, was the son of Alexander Helios/Heli a father of renowned who was murdered by Herod the Great in 13 BC. Cleophas, the Masculine form of Cleopatra, carries the Greek, meaning: “Of a renowned father,” and Alpheaus, is the Aramaic of the same meaning: “Of a renowned father.”

Thomas=Tau’ma, the Aramaic for twin, is also called Didymus, which is the Greek for twin, he is Thomas/twin, Didymus/twin, Jude, the half-brother of Jesus and the son of the carpenter.

Excerpts from “The Acts of Thomas-Wikipedia.”

Acts of Thomas is a series of episodic Acts (Latin passio) that occurred during the evangelistic mission of Judas Thomas ("Judas the Twin") to India. It ends with his martyrdom: he dies pierced with spears, having earned the ire of the monarch Misdaeus (Vasudeva I) because of his conversion of Misdaeus' wives and a relative, Charisius. He was imprisoned while converting Indian followers won through the performing of miracles.

Thomas is often referred to by his name Judas (his full name is Thomas Judas Didymus), since both Thomas and Didymus just mean twin, and several scholars believe that twin is just a description, and not intended as a name. The manuscripts end "The acts of Judas Thomas the apostle are completed, which he did in India, fulfilling the commandment of him that sent him. Unto whom be glory, world without end. Amen.".

A local tradition of eastern Syria identifies the Apostle Jude with Jude Thomas who was called ‘The Twin’ also known as Thomas (Aramaic), Didymus (Greek), and Jude (Hebrew.)

Knowing that in ART, Thomas Didymus Jude, the son of Alpheaus/Cleophas, is depicted with a, carpenter’s rule and square. In "The Acts of Thomas, sometimes called by its full name, "The Acts of Judas Thomas," 2nd-3rd century CE, "The Apostles cast lots as to where they should go, and to Thomas, brother to Jesus fell India. Thomas was taken to King Goddophares the ruler of Indo-Pathian Kingdom as an architect and carpenter by Habban.”

Jude, the brother of the Lord according to the flesh, both having the same father, Joseph-cleophas-Alphaeus, who was the son of Alexander Helios/Heli, but born of different wombs, was called the apostle of many names, as he was also called Thaddaeus and Lebbeaus, the Greek and Aramaic words for ‘courageous.’ So Jude the brother of the Lord is the courageous apostle called ‘The Twin,’ and he should not be confused with the apostle whose actual name was ‘Thomas.’
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Because it is recorded in the scriptures that on the day of the resurrection, while the apostles were locked in a room in Jerusalem, Cleophas and another follower of Jesus, walked to Emmaus with one of the risen body of Christ, who was recognised as Jesus, by the other follower, by the manner in which he broke the bread.

Cleophas, the husband of Mary, then returned to Jerusalem where the apostles were hiding, those apostles Simon Peter and Simon the patriot, and Cleophas cried out, "He has risen, he appeared to Simon." who was not Simon Peter, or Simon the patriot. The only apostle that was not present that night was Thomas Didymus Jude the twin. whether he was an actual twin, or simply held a striking resemblance to one with who he shared a common father.

It was not uncommon for men of Galilee in those days to carry three names, one in Hebrew, one in Greek, and one in Aramaic. The son of Matthat and Alexandra, the should have been Hasmonian Queen, was ‘Alexander Helios III,’ who sired Joseph the biological father of Jesus, would have been seen as a father of renowned. Alpheaus and Cleophas, in Young’ s Analytical Concordance Subject Guide, are said to be one and the same person: From the Subject Guide; “Cleophas, husband of Mary, also called Alpheaus.”

Joseph, the biological father of Jesus, was the son of Alexander Helios/Heli a father of renowned who was murdered by Herod the Great in 13 BC. Cleophas, the Masculine form of Cleopatra, carries the Greek, meaning: “Of a renowned father,” and Alpheaus, is the Aramaic of the same meaning: “Of a renowned father.”

Thomas=Tau’ma, the Aramaic for twin, is also called Didymus, which is the Greek for twin, he is Thomas/twin, Didymus/twin, Jude, the half-brother of Jesus and the son of the carpenter.

Excerpts from “The Acts of Thomas-Wikipedia.”

Acts of Thomas is a series of episodic Acts (Latin passio) that occurred during the evangelistic mission of Judas Thomas ("Judas the Twin") to India. It ends with his martyrdom: he dies pierced with spears, having earned the ire of the monarch Misdaeus (Vasudeva I) because of his conversion of Misdaeus' wives and a relative, Charisius. He was imprisoned while converting Indian followers won through the performing of miracles.

Thomas is often referred to by his name Judas (his full name is Thomas Judas Didymus), since both Thomas and Didymus just mean twin, and several scholars believe that twin is just a description, and not intended as a name. The manuscripts end "The acts of Judas Thomas the apostle are completed, which he did in India, fulfilling the commandment of him that sent him. Unto whom be glory, world without end. Amen.".

A local tradition of eastern Syria identifies the Apostle Jude with Jude Thomas who was called ‘The Twin’ also known as Thomas (Aramaic), Didymus (Greek), and Jude (Hebrew.)

Knowing that in ART, Thomas Didymus Jude, the son of Alpheaus/Cleophas, is depicted with a, carpenter’s rule and square. In "The Acts of Thomas, sometimes called by its full name, "The Acts of Judas Thomas," 2nd-3rd century CE, "The Apostles cast lots as to where they should go, and to Thomas, brother to Jesus fell India. Thomas was taken to King Goddophares the ruler of Indo-Pathian Kingdom as an architect and carpenter by Habban.”

Jude, the brother of the Lord according to the flesh, both having the same father, Joseph-cleophas-Alphaeus, who was the son of Alexander Helios/Heli, but born of different wombs, was called the apostle of many names, as he was also called Thaddaeus and Lebbeaus, the Greek and Aramaic words for ‘courageous.’ So Jude the brother of the Lord is the courageous apostle called ‘The Twin,’ and he should not be confused with the apostle whose actual name was ‘Thomas.’

OK... so we know that the two who walked the road saw him first.

Why do you discount the women that saw him before they did? Are women not important?
 

Mitty

Active Member
OK... so we know that the two who walked the road saw him first.

Why do you discount the women that saw him before they did? Are women not important?
And where did Joseph and Nicodemus go after they resuscitated Jesus with the help of 30 kg of healing agents including Aloe vera (John 19:39-40)?
And did Jesus then hightail it to India with Doubting Thomas and was buried near Srinager?
Unknown years of Jesus - Wikipedia
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
OK... so we know that the two who walked the road saw him first.

Why do you discount the women that saw him before they did? Are women not important?

You must learn how to comprehend that which you read Ken,

In my post #95, I wrote the following; "Why do you believe that THE FIRST MEN to who the risen Christ appeared, were Cleophas the husband of Mary and his son Simeon, who succeeded to the episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision after the death of James, the brother of the Lord?

The whole point of the question was to reveal that after Mary had married 'Joseph the son of Jacob,' to who she bore a son who was also named Joseph after his father, she then took another husband named Cleophas (The Masculine form of Cleopatra) who is also called Alphaeus, who is the father of James the brother of the Lord. But apparently, that went right over your head.
 
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