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Abraham and Christianity?

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by Eddi, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. Eddi

    Eddi currently engaged in spiritual warfare

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    (This is in the Christian DIR)

    This is a question thread...

    I’ve been doing some reading about the biblical covenants. And I don’t quite understand some of it; indeed I’ve become stuck!

    I admit that my understanding is rudimentary :)

    Galatians 3:14 says (talking about Jesus):

    He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.


    So Jesus (as a Jew) made the Abrahamic covenant apply to the gentiles who followed him? How on Earth does this work?

    I don’t understand – how did the Abrahamic covenant come to apply to gentiles??? How did Christians come to be sons (and daughters???) of Abraham? - how does the Abrahamic covenant fit into Christianity?

    I’m assuming “blessings” (in the passage) is synonymous with “covenant” - or promises (such as in Genesis 12:3)

    (I cannot think of Abraham without thinking of this, from my childhood, played on a guitar evangelical style)

     
  2. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member
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    Good question.

    First... it is about the covenant that God made with Abraham.

    Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

    The desire for God was that everyone would be included from the beginning. Also not that it wasn't "seeds" as in many but rather "seed" as in one speaking of the one that was to come.

    In reality, God wanted all of the kingdom of Israel to be priests to the whole world:

    Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

    However sin continued to whittle down the priesthood. (In Christian understanding)

    Jesus was a Jew in as much as God continued to narrow the scope to recognize the Messiah until the probability of one person fulfilling all prophecies would be so astronomically impossible that we would know that it was Jesus who was fulfilling it. (With God all things are possible)

    Did that make sense?
     
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  3. Eddi

    Eddi currently engaged in spiritual warfare

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    So the covenant is made for all humans, to be administered by the Jewish people, in the form of Jesus's ministry??? And having that covenant apply to you makes you one of God's children??? And accepting Christ as your Lord and Saviour makes you a child of Abraham and the covenant apply to you???
     
  4. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member
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    will get back to you.
     
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  5. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member
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    " He" seems to be referring to or talking about someone else who did something through Christ Jesus.
     
  6. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member
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    Yes.. it was for all humans but to be ministered to by Jesus after the order of Melchizedek. The Jewish people were holders of the scriptures until the fulfillment thereof.

    Those who accept Jesus Christ are joined to Him by covenant to which it was Abraham who opened the door for that to happen.

    The willing sacrifice of Isaac opened the door for God to bring in The Word as Jesus Christ and thus Abraham is called the Father of faith because he operated in faith that Jesus Christ was going to come. The mountain where the sacrifice of Isaac was suppose to happen is the same mountain where Jesus was crucified thus Jesus said, "Abraham saw my day". Abraham knew that the Messiah was going to come and be sacrificed.
     
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  7. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    It was always God's intention to bless "all nations" by means of the seed that he promised to send, and this seed would be identified by coming through the descendants of Abraham (the only man identified in all of scripture as "God's friend".) Since God had to bring his Christ into the world, why not through the descendants of his most trusted earthly servant at the time? This narrowed down the criteria so that not just anyone could claim to be this seed because of the criteria imposed by God. Hundreds of prophesies were written about him and Jesus fulfilled them all, even though the Jews will hotly deny this. (Because of the implications)

    Abraham's descendants were to be the beneficiaries of God's promise to become to him a "priesthood and a holy nation", but the trouble was, that they were not as obedient and ready to serve their God as Abraham was. To the point where, when Jesus walked the earth, the 'sons of Abraham' had virtually lost the plot.

    John the Baptist recognized this.....
    Matthew 3:7-10...
    "When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire."

    Since "the axe was already lying at the at the root of the tree" the Jewish nation was on notice that relying on their heritage and their works of the Law was not going to save them. They had to accept the Messiah and follow his teachings....something that the religious Leaders would never accede to. They had their own way of looking at things, and true to their appalling track record, they were not going to be told anything that meant they had to change their ways. (Matthew 23:37-39)

    The only way to continue the Abrahamic Covenant was to change the definition of what it meant to be "Jewish".

    The apostle Paul, in arguing that the Jews were mistaken in their pride of fleshly descent from Abraham and in relying on the works of the Law to find favor with God, said: For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God. (Romans 2:28-29)

    Paul spoke of "the Israel of God" when referring to the Christian Congregation, which was made up of both Jews and Gentiles. (Galatians 6:16) This demonstrates that "spiritual" Jews are part of the new covenant and the recipients of the blessings are those who put faith in Jesus as the Messiah.

    I hope that helps....
     
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  8. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member
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    On a side note... the reason why it is after the order of Melchizedek - and not the Jewish priesthood - is because there was no "Jewish priesthood" at that time. In addition, it is a New Covenant and, thus, it must be a completely different priesthood and an eternal priesthood so that no more sacrifices would be required.

    Hebrews 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

    Hebrews 7:11 If* therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood,* (for under it the people received the law,) what further needwas there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec,and not be called after the order of Aaron?
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
     
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  9. amatuerscholar

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    To add to the discussion, since we are speaking of Paul, getting into his head may be worthwhile. Paul believes the end is near. Some of his followers, specifically the Corinthians, already believe they have been resurrected (as there was a Jewish idea of a general resurrection which would occur at the end of time, when God brought his Kingdom to replace the Kingdom of Earth).

    Paul is largely looking back to Jeremiah and other prophets, who made the claim that at the end, every knee would bow down before God. At the end of time, all the nations would come together. That is what Paul has in mind when he is writing Galatians.
     
  10. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Obviously biblical morality and those biblical covenants are just man-made, given that the ten commandments etc did not apply to Abraham et al or their ancestors. Which is why it wasn't morally wrong for Abraham to shack up with his sister Sarah and commit adultery with Hagar, or for Abraham to kill his son as a blood sacrifice or for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel or for Noah's father to kill a young man for injuring him (Gen 4). And Cain(an)'s "god" even protected him from retribution when he relocated to Nod and married one of the Nod girls and lived happily ever after.
     
    #10 Mitty, Apr 24, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  11. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
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    I don't want to enter into this discussion per se (some of the answers have been insightful), other than to make a single point.

    According to the Jewish Talmud, the Torah WAS offered to all other nations in the world. (and one assumes, all covenants and promises as well). The Talmud then gives examples of nations that refused this offer as well as a few justifications for specific refusals. While it makes sense that it is fair to offer authentic torah to all nations of the world equally, the Jewish tradition that all nations refused it seems to be a bid by Jewish historians to elevate the Jewish version of Torah above that of other moral codes that are similar. The point is, that if Gods laws were offered to other nations, then versions, perhaps only portions of similar moral laws will exist in other nations and, among nations considered pagan by the various versions of Judaism and the promises within Torah will exist asthey were extended to other nations as well, including the gentile nations.

    Clear.
    σεειφιω
     
    #11 Clear, Jun 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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