About Removing Monuments

[Revoltingest]

I was watching a show called "Aerial America". This episode was about southern Californiastan.
I noticed something interesting....many cities had missions (reconstructions or originals) in them.
They were established to convert the heathen Indians to Catholicism.

We're removing statues of Columbus & Confederate soldiers.
It would be consistent to remove these missions too.
Thoughts?

 

[Estro Felino]

missions?
what are they?

 

[Revoltingest]

missions?
what are they?

A kind of church established in a heathen area.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Those buildings aren't publicly owned like those Confederate monuments are. You're basically saying to tear down churches.

"The surviving mission buildings are the state's oldest structures and its most-visited historic monuments. They have become a symbol of California, appearing in many movies and television shows, and are an inspiration for Mission Revival architecture. The oldest cities of California formed around or near Spanish missions, including the four largest: Los Angeles, San Diego, San Jose, and San Francisco."
Spanish missions in California - Wikipedia

 

[Twilight Hue]

A kind of church established in a heathen area.

It does have a note of irony considering those missions were there to stamp out the spiritual culture of Native Americans . I wouldn't miss them if they were torn down.

 

[Revoltingest]

It does have a note of irony considering those missions were there to stamp out the spiritual culture of Native Americans . I wouldn't miss them if they were torn down.

They strike me as even worse symbols than Columbus
statues because of their more intentional hegemony.

 

[Curious George]

Those buildings aren't publicly owned like those Confederate monuments are. You're basically saying to tear down churches.

"The surviving mission buildings are the state's oldest structures and its most-visited historic monuments. They have become a symbol of California, appearing in many movies and television shows, and are an inspiration for Mission Revival architecture. The oldest cities of California formed around or near Spanish missions, including the four largest: Los Angeles, San Diego, San Jose, and San Francisco."
Spanish missions in California - Wikipedia

But it is not as though those properties have not received government monies:

H.R.1446 - 108th Congress (2003-2004): California Missions Preservation Act

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But it is not as though those properties have not received government monies:

H.R.1446 - 108th Congress (2003-2004): California Missions Preservation Act

Because they're protected historical structures. They're the oldest buildings in the state.

 

[Revoltingest]

. You're basically saying to tear down churches.

I'm not advocating that at all.
Just addressing an apparent inconsistency in which
monuments are sanitized or not. And actually, I lean
towards preserving offensive historical monuments.
They're our past.

 

[Curious George]

Because they're protected historical structures. They're the oldest buildings in the state.

That is fine. But it negates the distinction between private and public property. One cannot claim that they are not publicly funded.

 

[Revoltingest]

That is fine. But it negates the distinction between private and public property. One cannot claim that they are not publicly funded.

And the historical designation does take on aspects of ownership.
(Anyone who owns property with such restrictions learns how
much control government takes, & how much one loses.)

Also, I'll wager that some statues removed were publicly owned.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I was watching a show called "Aerial America". This episode was about southern Californiastan.
I noticed something interesting....many cities had missions (reconstructions or originals) in them.
They were established to convert the heathen Indians to Catholicism.

We're removing statues of Columbus & Confederate soldiers.
It would be consistent to remove these missions too.
Thoughts?

Laughable. Nobody cares. There are people who feel the confederate statues were added for pernicious reasons which still pertain to some people alive today. Thats reason enough. Go ahead and pull down the old missions, if they bother you so much. If you feel attacked by Lincoln or Washington's statues, you may pull them down, too. If you don't like the statue of the 10 Commandments in the Supreme Court go ahead and chip it out. If it makes you feel oppressed, go ahead. Does the Liberty Bell give you chills? I mean, come on. Its just a bell, and a statue is just a statue. You can always make more.

 

[Revoltingest]

Laughable. Nobody cares.

As we see, there is caring going on in this thread.

 

[Brickjectivity]

As we see, there is caring going on in this thread.

Maybe this week. Nobody will be thinking about it 2 weeks from now.

 

[Revoltingest]

Maybe this week. Nobody will be thinking about it 2 weeks from now.

If my thread sees even one week of activity, then it will be successful.

 

[Father Heathen]

It does have a note of irony considering those missions were there to stamp out the spiritual culture of Native Americans . I wouldn't miss them if they were torn down.

It would only be ironic if they were currently owned and operated by the the government, and built sometime afterward to commemorate what was done to the native americans. We're grasping at straws trying to compare apples to oranges.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not advocating that at all.
Just addressing an apparent inconsistency in which
monuments are sanitized or not. And actually, I lean
towards preserving offensive historical monuments.
They're our past.

As long as we preserve them accurately. For instance, at every statue of General Amherst (we have a few around here), a plaque next to it with two of his quotes:

"Could it not be contrived to send the small pox among the disaffected tribes of Indians? We must on this occasion use every stratagem in our power to reduce them." - General Jeffrey Amherst

"You will Do well to try to Innoculate the Indians by means of Blankets, as well as to try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execrable Race. I should be very glad your Scheme for Hunting them Down by Dogs could take Effect, but England is at too great a Distance to think of that at present." - General Jeffrey Amherst

 

[Revoltingest]

It would only be ironic if they were currently owned and operated by the the government, and built sometime afterward to commemorate what was done to the native americans. We're grasping at straws trying to compare apples to oranges.

Does the owner pay property taxes?
And if the owner tried to get a permit
to demolish the structure, we'd see
who really exercises ownership.

 

[sun rise]

While we're at it, let's put into effect all the treaties we signed with the First Nation's peoples (to use a Canadian phrase I quite like). We accuse others of breaking treaties because we're champions at doing so when it serves our interests.

 

[Curious George]

While we're at it, let's put into effect all the treaties we signed with the First Nation's peoples (to use a Canadian phrase I quite like). We accuse others of breaking treaties because we're champions at doing so when it serves our interests.

How many ratified treaties were broken. I know the U.S. broke a treaty with the Sioux, but which other ones?