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About comics who use victims of torture and murder for laughs.

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
I remember this routine where Carlin recited a whole list of racial epithets to the sound of applause, even to the point of referring to Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy as "n words" to the cheers of the audience. That probably wouldn't fly today.

But he explained that there's nothing wrong with the words, in and of themselves. It's the context that makes all the difference.

Context is all. My favourite comedian, by far:

 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
As I mentioned in another thread on this topic, it largely depends on the context and how a joke is delivered.

Of course, the right to free speech guarantees that someone has the right to say things like this, and a certain amount of leeway might be given to comedians, satirists, and writers of fiction. But if a comedian tells a bad joke and gets booed or heckled, that's just the breaks of the game.

On the other hand, the reaction against some comedians might be more measured. If a comedian did not commit murder, then to react as if he did would be a gross overreaction. That would also be noticed by the general public and taken into consideration.
How would a comic carry out the delivery about children being raped, murdered and chucked in mass pits? That's what was happening to Romany children.
How would you get a laugh out of that?
I can't think of any funny delivery for the Romany Holocaust jokes of that bloke.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Empathy is a fickle thing. People are offended by
heinous acts towards some, but not to others.
Try an experiment....
Watch TV with an eye towards mutilation, sexual
assault, murder, religious intolerance, & kidnapping.
See when it's portrayed as not all that wrong, & even
humorous. You'll spot it. It's there, even on liberal
leaning shows like Murphy Brown, Law & Order.
Empathy sure is fickle.
Many of our children are more aware of its lack than us older folks. Child Lines like ours in the UK are constantly manned to listen to desperate kids, victims of Psycho-bullying, and it starts in the playground led by young version of these kinds of comic scumbags.

It's all about whose ox is gored.
I must be tired........... For a second I interpreted that sentence as 'It's all about whose ox was rogered'.
Now that's ok by my book, but if it had been about a rape victim...... I would expect moderation.
Oh no! I won't get modded for that..... will I? :eek:
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
A decade ago was only 2012, for goodness' sake, not 1912. I'm pretty sure paedophilia was just as ****ty then as it is now. I don't remember rampart sexism and whatnot in 2012, or ever from my growing up from 1995.

I'm just making the point, though, that Jimmy Carr is this kind of comedien. This is his thing. Anyone familiar with him will not be remotely surprised by this tasteless joke, nor is it particularly offensive as far as Jimmy Carr usually goes. The joke may have had unbelievably poor timing, given the holocaust memorial stuff, but that was his point as well. Carr's whole gig is based on this ****, so absolutely no-one should be surprised.

He's not funny, he's lowbrow and he's coarse. But I don't think that means he should be cancelled. I'd rather folks just ignore him and go see other comedians.
I agree. People should say 'what a dick' and move on. Because cancel culture is a marketing scam. They leverage it into more attention for themselves than if they hadn't been 'cancelled.' Heck some of these weirdos get the best deal signings of their lives because they were 'cancelled.'
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England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I havent seen a comedian for ages,well maybe in parliament although Ricky Gervais was devastating at the hollywood awards and that was funny,i think there is a line that gets crossed by some but it is increasingly going over the top pc wise.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
A Brit comic made a joke about Romany victims of the nazi holocaust for a laugh, more or less saying that since they are unpopular it should be alright. There's no need for me to promote this slime bag's name, nor the actual Joke.

So what do you think about trashy jokes that make fun of people's tragedies.......any people?
I see it the same as an actor who portrays a racist/homophonic/misogynist etc... character. You may find the character offensive but it is a fictional character.

Second, they get paid for their entertainment. If I don't like the idea/message behind the movie, I don't pay to go see it. If there is no audience, they are out of a job.

I get to decide for myself, what I find funny, what I find offensive, what I am entertained by. I don't want others deciding for me and I don't want to decide what is right for others as well.

Personally, I'm not easily offended. However comedians I don't find funny at all, and I don't find all jokes funny. Other people find them hilarious.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Context is key. Sometimes a bit that's racist, sexist, etc. on the surface is actually satirical and done to lampoon or "take the **** out of" such things.

Sure, I assume when I don't find something funny, the context is lost on me.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I see it the same as an actor who portrays a racist/homophonic/misogynist etc... character. You may find the character offensive but it is a fictional character.

Second, they get paid for their entertainment. If I don't like the idea/message behind the movie, I don't pay to go see it. If there is no audience, they are out of a job.

I get to decide for myself, what I find funny, what I find offensive, what I am entertained by. I don't want others deciding for me and I don't want to decide what is right for others as well.

Personally, I'm not easily offended. However comedians I don't find funny at all, and I don't find all jokes funny. Other people find them hilarious.

Actors have to accurately portray characters...... even Hitler needs to be acted accurately. :)
Films about genocides etc or horrific murders are usually historical and don't intend to glorify such monsters.

But the scummy kind of comedians who deliberately target horror victims, expecting to get away with their cheap jokes at the victims' expense and without repercussions because they think that the wider audience is careless.......... that's getting close to criminal offence where I live.

If a joke about torturing, say, a cat had been spoken that comic would be out of a job, probably. A West Ham Football player has just been proved to have kicked his cat very hard, a film of this has gone viral, and as a consequence (so far) an important company has withdrawn it's investment in the West Ham football team.

I think that any support for the comic in this recent case should be gone, over, finished, but that's me. :)
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
How would a comic carry out the delivery about children being raped, murdered and chucked in mass pits? That's what was happening to Romany children.
How would you get a laugh out of that?
I can't think of any funny delivery for the Romany Holocaust jokes of that bloke.

I don't know. I didn't think it was funny at all, so I'm a bit mystified that the audience laughed at it.

It's kind of strange, actually. I think I started thread not too long ago about people who make some dumb or ignorant statement about the Holocaust - and then have to apologize for it later. Whoopi was the latest example, but there have been others in recent months. And it seemed that this comedian knew in advance that he was playing with fire and went ahead and did it anyway. It wasn't as if he accidentally stuck his foot in his mouth; it was calculated. Maybe he was giving a double dare to "cancel culture."

I seem to remember a quote from Mel Brooks where he says "A man cuts himself shaving, that's tragedy. A man walks into an open sewer and dies, that's comedy." Mel Brooks had a brand of comedy which certainly wouldn't pass muster today. I mentioned Blazing Saddles earlier, but there's also History of the World Part One, where he turns the Spanish Inquisition into a musical comedy number. I didn't think it was very funny, the song sucked, and the whole scene was rather unsettling, to be honest. But it is what it is. Crap entertainment, but I wouldn't make it any more than that.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I don't know. I didn't think it was funny at all, so I'm a bit mystified that the audience laughed at it.

It's kind of strange, actually. I think I started thread not too long ago about people who make some dumb or ignorant statement about the Holocaust - and then have to apologize for it later. Whoopi was the latest example, but there have been others in recent months. And it seemed that this comedian knew in advance that he was playing with fire and went ahead and did it anyway. It wasn't as if he accidentally stuck his foot in his mouth; it was calculated. Maybe he was giving a double dare to "cancel culture."

I seem to remember a quote from Mel Brooks where he says "A man cuts himself shaving, that's tragedy. A man walks into an open sewer and dies, that's comedy." Mel Brooks had a brand of comedy which certainly wouldn't pass muster today. I mentioned Blazing Saddles earlier, but there's also History of the World Part One, where he turns the Spanish Inquisition into a musical comedy number. I didn't think it was very funny, the song sucked, and the whole scene was rather unsettling, to be honest. But it is what it is. Crap entertainment, but I wouldn't make it any more than that.

Yes, I don't turn on the telly to watch comics like him, and I would never have known about the gag unless it had gone viral and been newsworthy.

But the reason why I mouth-off about these scum is because of psycho-bullying which starts in the school playgrounds and carries on through society and the workplace...... individuals or minorities who cannot withstand social stigma and hatred being made fun of for cheap laughs and an actual increase in harassment and victimisation. We're not supposed to be doing this crap to anybody.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
This was worth a read, although I do find Carr and Boyle to be worth watching:

In defence of bad jokes | The Spectator

I said that one Holocaust-related joke I knew was the story from the 1970s of the Monty Python crew being invited to Germany to film a television series there. The Germans had called the Pythons to say that of course they had no humour of their own in Germany and would like to import some. The Pythons agreed, arrived in Munich and were promptly taken to Dachau. In retrospect, this must have been some kind of signal from their hosts that they were accepting of their history and wanted there to be no awkwardness. For one reason or another, by the time the cars filled with the Pythons and their colleagues pulled up to the gates, they were informed by the guard that the camp was closed for the day. Some pleading commenced, including an explanation of how far their guests had come, when suddenly Graham Chapman, who had been quietly drinking gin in the back of the car throughout the journey suddenly shouted: ‘Tell them we’re Jewish.’

...

Of course this is really a Python joke, more than it is a Holocaust joke. To the extent that they exist, Jewish jokes on the Shoah have a very dark, even theological, feel. Here is one. Two men both killed in the Holocaust are in heaven. They haven’t seen each other since the camps and they are laughing at something that happened there. Indeed they are laughing so much that they attract the attention of God, who is passing by. ‘My children, my children,’ says God. ‘How could you laugh at such things?’ One of the Jews stops, turns to God and says: ‘I guess you had to be there.’

And I didn't feel guilty at finding both of these to be funny. :oops:
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
I seem to remember a quote from Mel Brooks where he says "A man cuts himself shaving, that's tragedy. A man walks into an open sewer and dies, that's comedy." Mel Brooks had a brand of comedy which certainly wouldn't pass muster today. I mentioned Blazing Saddles earlier, but there's also History of the World Part One, where he turns the Spanish Inquisition into a musical comedy number. I didn't think it was very funny, the song sucked, and the whole scene was rather unsettling, to be honest. But it is what it is. Crap entertainment, but I wouldn't make it any more than that.
And yet, even at his least restrained, Mel Brooks made a point of never making fun of the Holocaust, because he thought it would be disrespectful to victims and survivors alike. Note how in Blazing Saddles, the jokes are almost never laughing along with the racists - the racists are the target of his jokes ("The salt of the Earth.... you know, morons!").

But I guess you couldnt make Blazing Saddles these days; you know some political official or media host would complain that racists are being laughed at, all while wringing their hands over the bad words said in that movie.

After all, we live in an era where the "concerns" of Neonazis need to be "taken seriously", and all these bigots need to be "brought back into the fold" and not "abandoned to extremism". It has become too lucrative to platform anti-mask bigots and racists, and leftist voices have become too uncomfortable.
 
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