Abortion

[Jeremiah Ames]

This is about the Christian obsession with abortion in America.

1. Most of Christianity, from what I understand, believes everyone is born with original sin.
2. This would imply, as far as I can tell, that prior to birth, there is no sin.
3. Most of Christianity, from what I understand, believe in a heaven for those who are sinless.
4. As far as I can understand, this is considered a place of peace and bliss.
5. So the Christian concept of life in heaven is one that is far better than life on earth.

My question is: Why are Christians so adamant about preventing women from having abortions? I’m looking at this from the point of view of the abortionee. (unborn child)

 

[columbus]

Let me paraphrase this into one sentence.
If one truly believes that innocent babies go to Heaven, and getting your child into Heaven is the primary goal of Christian parenting, then abortion is the ideal parenting technique.
Tom

 

[Kenny]

This is about the Christian obsession with abortion in America.

1. Most of Christianity, from what I understand, believes everyone is born with original sin.
2. This would imply, as far as I can tell, that prior to birth, there is no sin.
3. Most of Christianity, from what I understand, believe in a heaven for those who are sinless.
4. As far as I can understand, this is considered a place of peace and bliss.
5. So the Christian concept of life in heaven is one that is far better than life on earth.

My question is: Why are Christians so adamant about preventing women from having abortions? I’m looking at this from the point of view of the abortionee. (unborn child)

1. As a Christian, I don't see where babies are punished for any sin.
2. This would imply that there is an age of accountability that doesn't include babies
3. most of Christianity believes that we all have sinned
4. Yes, we believe that there hereafter is a better place of peace
5. And, yes, life in heaven is better than earth with a caveat, we will return to earth.

The answer to the question is we don't believe that two wrongs never equal a right (pardon the pun)

 

[columbus]

• This would imply that there is an age of accountability that doesn't include babies

• most of Christianity believes that we all have sinned

So you don't consider babies humans? They're not included in "we"?
Tom

 

[Kenny]

So you don't consider babies humans? They're not included in "we"?
Tom

Tom... you think babies are the same as adults? Why are there different standards for teenagers than adults? Are teenagers not humans but adults are?

 

[Terry Sampson]

The answer to the question is we don't believe that two wrongs never equal a right (pardon the pun)

Yo' bro', forgive me... but if two wrongs never equal a right, why don't "we" believe that?

 

[Iymus]

Why are Christians so adamant about preventing women from having abortions?

I'm not so sure about that. Abortions primarily seem to be a symptom of something and not the cause.

 

[Terry Sampson]

I'm not so sure about that. Abortions primarily seem to be a symptom of something and not the cause.

Lack of trust in Somebody or material limitations of some sort, maybe?

 

[columbus]

Tom... you think babies are the same as adults? Why are there different standards for teenagers than adults? Are teenagers not humans but adults are?

I didn't distinguish between humans by age.
I see us all as humans starting at conception.
Go back to post#4 and see if you can respond to that.
Tom

 

[Kenny]

Yo' bro', forgive me... but if two wrongs never equal a right, why don't "we" believe that?

I used to be hard headed... maybe that's normal?

 

[Kenny]

I didn't distinguish between humans by age.
I see us all as humans starting at conception.
Go back to post#4 and see if you can respond to that.
Tom

I think I was pretty clear when I said (in context) babies aren't punished for sins that I know of. Can you be a little more clear and specific?

 

[columbus]

I think I was pretty clear when I said (in context) babies aren't punished for sins that I know of. Can you be a little more clear and specific?

You weren't at all clear when you distinguished between some people and others based on age.
No explanation for why you're doing that. Or what age makes you think a human being becomes a person, or whatever.

But this thread is actually about abortion.
Why isn't sending your child directly to Heaven the best way to parent them?
Abort them.
Tom

 

[Iymus]

Lack of trust in Somebody or material limitations of some sort, maybe?

Perceived incentives and rewards along with no checks and balances.

 

[Kenny]

Why isn't sending your child directly to Heaven the best way to parent them?
Abort them.

Because two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Let me paraphrase this into one sentence.
If one truly believes that innocent babies go to Heaven, and getting your child into Heaven is the primary goal of Christian parenting, then abortion is the ideal parenting technique.
Tom

Thus nicely demonstrating that iffy premises lead to seriously iffy conclusions!

(Meant in good fun, but seriously...)

 

[columbus]

Because two wrongs don't make a right.

So, where's the wrong? Why do you think so?

I oppose elective abortions because I don't believe anybody gets any life after they die. This is it. Ending someone else's life is destroying everything that they will ever have. No heaven, no nothing. By standard Christian teachings, this temporal world is just a tiny bit of eternity. And innocent babies are in no danger of growing up and doing anything that might even risk eternal bliss if they don't survive until birth.
Where's the wrong here?
Tom

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So, where's the wrong? Why do you think so?

I oppose elective abortions because I don't believe anybody gets any life after they die. This is it. Ending someone else's life is destroying everything that they will ever have. No heaven, no nothing. By standard Christian teachings, this temporal world is just a tiny bit of eternity. And innocent babies are in no danger of growing up and doing anything that might even risk eternal bliss if they don't survive until birth.
Where's the wrong here?
Tom

This is hard. I don't so much "oppose" elective abortion as I "regret" them. It's a horribly complex topic, and I think we get into very deep trouble when we try to find some equivalence between a girl or woman, and a very recently implanted embryo in her womb. And you do this by saying "ending 'someone' else's life. This is a very hard thing to evidence.

Not only that, I think you entirely ignore the fact that there's a recently impregnated girl here, who's life and how it goes is also in question.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but I really do think the questions are legit.

 

[Kenny]

So, where's the wrong? Why do you think so?


Tom

A six month old baby inside the womb is the same as a baby outside the womb.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Let me paraphrase this into one sentence.
If one truly believes that innocent babies go to Heaven, and getting your child into Heaven is the primary goal of Christian parenting, then abortion is the ideal parenting technique.
Tom

Not only an ideal parenting technique.
If I was given a choice before birth, knowing what I know now, I would have chose it as well.

 

[columbus]

A six month old baby inside the womb is the same as a baby outside the womb.

Well, obviously that isn't true, objectively.

But I guess that doesn't matter much to religious folks.
Fetal children do not breathe. Fetal children aren't protected by the same legal rights born people have.

"Pro-life" people will go to great lengths to protect fetal children. Too bad they take so much less interest in the born children. I find this most notable concerning immigrant children.
Tom