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Abomination of Desolation

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
We are making progress, we agree that the present UN is not attempting to bring about God's Kingdom.
We are making progress.

Those at are involved with developing the United Nations and its axillary functions, with the best motive to serve mankind, and setting aside personal and narrow national interests are serving God, whether they know it, or don't. However this international body is ailing and sorely afflicted. Only the remedy provided by the Divine Physician can breath spirit and create new life into this diseased entity.

And we agree that a planetary government approved by God is inevitable in due course.
Agreed

The point I make is that those who are presently trying to rule planet Earth, are separated by a Divine judgement event, from those that lead the Earth into an enduring future.
Agreed. There will suddenly appear that which will cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then and only then shall the Divine standard be unfurled!
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
We are making progress.

Those at are involved with developing the United Nations and its axillary functions, with the best motive to serve mankind, and setting aside personal and narrow national interests are serving God, whether they know it, or don't. However this international body is ailing and sorely afflicted. Only the remedy provided by the Divine Physician can breath spirit and create new life into this diseased entity.
I understand what you are saying, but to be clear, I would suggest that there is systemic corruption in the UN in its present form, of a nature that the very administration of all its parts are compromised. Perhaps Donald Trump will turn out to be the catalyst to bring this to the surface to reveal the still dark nature of its present form?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I understand what you are saying, but to be clear, I would suggest that there is systemic corruption in the UN in its present form, of a nature that the very administration of all its parts are compromised.
I agree that there is systemic corruption. The same can be said of most national governments and their institutions. It is as if the whole body of mankind is diseased. The problem is a lack of genuine spirituality everywhere. Only the Teachings of the Returned Christ can remedy it.

In the interim we still need government and institutions otherwise we have anarchy. Development of sound international government is one of the most urgent tasks for humanity. However we are realistic about the limitations of the institutions that make up this government until the New Covenant is universally accepted.


Perhaps Donald Trump will turn out to be the catalyst to bring this to the surface to reveal the still dark nature of its present form?
Interesting times ahead for sure.
 
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Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
I agree that there is systemic corruption. The same can be said of most national governments and their institutions. It is as if the whole body of mankind is diseased. The problem is a lack of genuine spirituality everywhere. Only the Teachings of the Returned Christ can remedy it.

In the interim we still need government and institutions otherwise we have anarchy. Development of sound international government is one of the most urgent tasks for humanity. However we are realistic about the limitations of the institutions that make up this government until the New Covenant is universally accepted.

Interesting times ahead for sure.
Agreed... :)
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
I see that much of it has happened...



Except this one:)

No. Zechariah is describing the return of Christ in power and glory.
He will return in his "glorious" body -similar to the one described in the Old Testament -the back parts of which Moses saw.

Read the rest of the chapter.
Many believe the return of Christ will itself be a peaceful event.
He will bring peace, but first, he will "destroy them which destroy the Earth" as written in Revelation 11:18.

It is describing a very real battle. There is no chance of anything happen but what is written, but it will be as described.

Rev 16:13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon

Rev 17:12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Zech 14:3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.......

10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.


In Daniel, there are a succession of kings of the north and of the south.

The last king of the north -also called a king of fierce countenance -is the man called the beast in Revelation -who will reign over the beast that rises out of abyss for 3 1/2 years -which are the feet and toes of iron and clay in Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

He will come to his end in the holy land -he will be broken without hand.
He is also called the Assyrian. Though he does not reign from present-day Assyria, he is the descendent of those who moved northwest over time from Assyria as described in Ezekiel 17. He will possibly be a direct descendent of Ashur-Uballit II -the highest branch of the cedar -the last Assyrian king, who also reigned 3 1/2 years.

Isaiah 14:24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: 25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders. 26This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations. 27For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back

Isaiah 10:24Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt. 25For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction

He is also called "that Wicked"....

2 Thes 2:8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness

Dan 8:23And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Dan 11:40And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41He shall enter also into the glorious land
, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. 42He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. 44But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 45And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Those to the east and north of the King of the north above are the "kings of the east " (Russia, China and allies) who will also be gathered in Meggido .


Rev 16:12And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 4And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: 5Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: 6Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

14Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? 15And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: 16And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

17Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them? 18And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. 19For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. 21And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 22And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that arewith him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south

Lets ease off with the cut and pastes from apocalyptic texts and lets try to speak to each other in clear English.

Please tell me what the above verse means?
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Agreed... :)

You have given me some hope that we can have a sensible discussion about these matters.

Lets go back to Daniel 11 that you referred to.

Do you agree that Daniel 11:1-31 have already happened?

Daniel 11:36-45 refers to an empire in the middle east that extends far and wide to include Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia. It even extended into the Holy Land. This happened long ago, but also long after Christ. What is the name of the empire?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Yes, the UN that cannot create peace on Earth...

Yes, cannot create peace, however, since the United Nations already sees a hauntingly dangerous religious climate brewing in today world, then with backing the U.N. can be strengthened.
2 Thessalonians 5:2-3 mentions when ' they ' (the powers that be) will be saying ' Peace ' that is Not a real peace which ties in with what Jeremiah wrote at Jeremiah 6:14; Jeremiah 8:11 when people were saying, " peace, peace " when there is No peace.

In the past, God used the Babylonian forces against unfaithful Israelites, in the past, in the year 70, God used the Roman armies against unfaithful Jews in Jerusalem, so, working with that same past pattern, then we can see that God will once again use political/military forces.
This time to first go up against unfaithful Christendom because Christendom claims to follow the God of the Bible.
All this is before Jesus will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
 
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Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
You have given me some hope that we can have a sensible discussion about these matters.

Lets go back to Daniel 11 that you referred to.

Do you agree that Daniel 11:1-31 have already happened?

Daniel 11:36-45 refers to an empire in the middle east that extends far and wide to include Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia. It even extended into the Holy Land. This happened long ago, but also long after Christ. What is the name of the empire?
Daniel 11:1-31 has already happened, Daniel 11:36-45 is in play, and to my understanding, the King of the North referred to here is the NWO, which, using its UN organization, erected its 'Tabernacle' in the act of establishing the ungodly resurrected state of Israel in the late 40s. The Arab spring so called revolutions of recent years that brought down Arabs state 'kings' across Northern Africa and the Middle East, Libya, Egypt, etc., were organized by conspirators of the King of the North, so the end is nigh. Daniel 11:45 predicts its demise prior to Judgement and the second coming of Christ, which Messiah will then usher in the promised resurrection of the true Israel.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Daniel 11:1-31 has already happened, Daniel 11:36-45 is in play, and to my understanding, the King of the North referred to here is the NWO, which, using its UN organization, erected its 'Tabernacle' in the act of establishing the ungodly resurrected state of Israel in the late 40s. The Arab spring so called revolutions of recent years that brought down Arabs state 'kings' across Northern Africa and the Middle East, Libya, Egypt, etc., were organized by conspirators of the King of the North, so the end is nigh. Daniel 11:45 predicts its demise prior to Judgement and the second coming of Christ, which Messiah will then usher in the promised resurrection of the true Israel.

NWO meaning new world order?

Where do you get this from?
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Lets ease off with the cut and pastes from apocalyptic texts and lets try to speak to each other in clear English.

Please tell me what the above verse means?

It means exactly what it says.

You aren't going to understand much without referencing the other scriptures which contain the explanation.

The kings of the south (Persian) and north are Muslim and European respectively.
 
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Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
NWO meaning new world order?

Where do you get this from?
It was originally coined by President George Bush Snr. to represent the one world government that was emerging through the internationalizing of nationalism. The UN was from the beginning an international organization, but was not yet functioning as a coherent body. Also recall that in Revelation, the Beast that emerges at end times must be a world order, not a mere nation, for it deceives the whole world (except for the saved) which implies its power is global. When the second coming occurs, there must exist a dominant Power whose reach is global. Obviously this Power never realizes fully its desire to dominate all of humanity, for Armageddon prevents it.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
It means exactly what it says.
Like most apocalyptic scripture it is highly symbolic and not to be take literally.

Moses parted the sea and Jesus parted a mountain. That's part of the meaning of Daniel 9:24-27. Its the metaphor used in Zachariah 14:4 to describe Jesus' greatest miracle!

You aren't going to understand much without referencing the other scriptures which contain the explanation.

You go wide, and I go deep. You have your understanding, and I have mine:smiley:


The kings of the south (Persian) and north are Muslim and European respectively.

If you talking about Daniel 11:36-45 you're heading in the right direction but with some way to go.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
It was originally coined by President George Bush Snr. to represent the one world government that was emerging through the internationalizing of nationalism. The UN was from the beginning an international organization, but was not yet functioning as a coherent body. Also recall that in Revelation, the Beast that emerges at end times must be a world order, not a mere nation, for it deceives the whole world (except for the saved) which implies its power is global. When the second coming occurs, there must exist a dominant Power whose reach is global. Obviously this Power never realizes fully its desire to dominate all of humanity, for Armageddon prevents it.

Yes, I recall many in my country make fools of themselves expecting the end of the world by the year 2,000. Have you ever asked your self that perhaps the world did end but we missed it?
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Like most apocalyptic scripture it is highly symbolic and not to be take literally.

Moses parted the sea and Jesus parted a mountain. That's part of the meaning of Daniel 9:24-27. Its the metaphor used in Zachariah 14:4 to describe Jesus' greatest miracle!



You go wide, and I go deep. You have your understanding, and I have mine:smiley:




If you talking about Daniel 11:36-45 you're heading in the right direction but with some way to go.

We do not agree on this -but understanding prophecy is not as important as keeping the commandments.
I hope good things happen for you.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Yes, I recall many in my country make fools of themselves expecting the end of the world by the year 2,000. Have you ever asked your self that perhaps the world did end but we missed it?
Yes, Y2K was a scam, a bit like Global Warming, so far I've survived the potential Nuclear Winter, Ozone Depletion, Acid Rain, Y2K, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, Global Warming, Peak Oil, Ebola Virus, and potential Armageddon. I am not aware of the scripture that predicts the end of the world, just that which refers to an Armageddon that culls the useless eaters, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life before the beginning of the world. So to answer your question, no I have not asked myself if Armageddon has already occurred.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, Y2K was a scam, a bit like Global Warming, so far I've survived the potential Nuclear Winter, Ozone Depletion, Acid Rain, Y2K, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, Global Warming, Peak Oil, Ebola Virus, and potential Armageddon. I am not aware of the scripture that predicts the end of the world, just that which refers to an Armageddon that culls the useless eaters, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life before the beginning of the world. So to answer your question, no I have not asked myself if Armageddon has already occurred.

Why not? With nearly 2000 years of history since the book of revelation you never thought to look back?
 
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